"just Keep It Simple"

[TomTFS]

My most hated phrase.

Yes it's bass, but I want it to be interesting. I'm not going to go mental, but being allowed to play more than just root notes on the beat is a definite must.
Why do most non-bassists insist that this must be the case?

[scalpy]

I suspect there's millions of reasons, and a lot of it will be politics and ego. I had that argument drummed into me all the time when I was starting and I do realise that most people don't know quite how bass is happening on most songs but... In most forms of music the melody is in the treble range, and that coupled with the fact our ears naturally perceive those frequencies with more accuracy and clarity means that busy bass is off putting. Commercial music means producers and punters want the bass to be the anchor between the rhythm and the harmony. If that can be something that goes beyond being root notes then fantastic, but it's too easy to detract from the piece of music as a whole with our instrument. The physics are against us for a start, our range takes up loads of sonic space and energy. Unless we have the ability to be eloquent we have to face playing less. If we can't, there's always the abyss of jazz funk!

[Lozz196]

I think its because most people assume that the more technical stuff will come from the guitar. However, if you removed Flea from RHCP, Bruce Foxton from The Jam, or John Entwhistle from The Who, and replaced them with "someone who just kept it simple" those three bands would have lost most of their identities.

I think in a 3 piece especially, and where the guitarist is the singer, a bass player has a real important role in establishing the melodies and fills, however in a rock band such as AC/DC for example, that style would completely chuck out the feel of their music.

The way I`ve found it it in previous bands, is to "keep it simple" until I get the feel of the songs and how the drummer plays. I`ve then added in fills which were suitable and fitted with the drums, and didn`t get in the way of the guitars/vocs. In other words, waited til last for what space was available, and then tried to use some of it to make my playing and the song more interesting.

[Doctor J]

It's not about keeping it simple or trying to be clever, it's about the right bassline at the right time. As mentioned, some low end pyrotechnics will destroy the likes of an AC/DC number (I've seen it done) and my mind is forever scarred by a Stingray player I saw a long time ago who thought his popping and slapping through even the most tender of ballads was acceptable. Depending on your drummer and how your guitarist plays there can be a need for the bass to be a bit more expansive, but it has to fit in with how your band mates play. I, for one, feel physically ill every time I'm exposed to the combination of 'mediocre drummer-flashy bass player' - don't these people listen to their band mates? There is, perhaps, a self-imposed pressure to leave the punters under no doubt that one is capable of more than just some decent basslines, that a bassist can do widdly widdly and tapping too but remember this, Adam Clayton is richer and has [i]pl[/i]ucked more beautiful women than all of us put together so who, I ask, can really say what is right or wrong?

[chris_b]

Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS) is the phrase and it applies in all walks of life. With musicians, especially inexperienced ones, the ego, excitement and enthusiasm can take over and they can loose their timing, groove and way.

It shouldn't mean play root notes all night but it does mean don't loose the plot!

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='TomTFS' post='1097046' date='Jan 21 2011, 03:12 AM']My most hated phrase.

Yes it's bass, but I want it to be interesting. I'm not going to go mental, but being allowed to play more than just root notes on the beat is a definite must.
Why do most non-bassists insist that this must be the case?[/quote]

You're probably not going to like my answer but keep it simple is mostly for the sake of the song. And lots of great bass playing is simple, if not then it needs to be beautifully done. To my ears many a good gig can be spoiled by a musicians notion that they have to keep things 'interesting' interesting for whom? and what does 'interesting mean? In my experience amongst average musicians (and I say musician because it is just not restricted to bass players) 'interesting means playing too many notes often based on little learning and seldom in a tidy time frame, the result being messy music. I'm not saying that's always the case but it's certainly something I've experienced from many musicians at various times. If you want something interesting to consider whilst playing then look up with both ears and eyes, concentrate less on keeping the bassline 'interesting' (in quotation marks because interesting is subjective) and concentrate more on the whole sound of the band.... Listen....!

Interesting can be one note per bar if it's appropriate, and lots of notes per bar [i]can[/i] be awful, and anything in between.

[Conan]

Some interesting and good points made above. As with most of these discussions, its about context. If you play in a covers band playing mostly sixties soul music - then simple is pretty much where it's at, leaving plenty of space for the horns and vocals. However, if you wish to show your own personal dexterity and skill then join an original band playing some version of modern 'techno-metal' where everyone seems to be soloing simultaneously...

Without trying to be patronising, a lot of this is also down to how long you have been playing - and more specifically, how long you have been playing [i]in bands[/i]. At the start of most bassist's career it is fairly typical to want to show off your chops in every track. That might impress your other bass players in the (probably small) audience, but the majority of the other punters will neither notice nor care (at best) and will hate it at worst.

With experience tends to come taste. The gut feeling of what is required for the piece of music, rather than to just impress people. Throw in the odd chop simply for effect by all means, but despite what most of us on here would [i]like[/i] to think, most music fans rarely notice the bass unless it does something wrong.

We are, in effect, the referee of the band situation! Do your job well and nobody notices. Screw up and it's all your fault. Such is life...

All IMV of course!!

Edited January 21, 2011 by Conan

[The Bass Doc]

"Keep it simple"

If you're hearing this a lot, it's probably right.

[TheRev]

'Interesting' and 'simple' aren't mutually exclusive. You could play one note in a bar, which is simple, but the note you choose to play and how and wherein the bar you play it can make that note interesting.

[lojo]

If you've been asked to keep it simple because


1. your timing is not as solid when you play more, or your fills etc don't fit, then fair enough, keep it simple and solid until you can do more

2. the band want it that way (whatever the reason be it ego or a good reason) then decide if you want to find another project that frees you


Sometimes, the simple lines are the hardest as they really rely on great feel to sound nice, but if its root note rock, then that would bore me for a whole set, so it really depends on what simple means in the context of what you are doing


If you listen to a lot of simple pop songs (good ones) you'll find the bassist may only play a fill once or twice during the whole song, but that moment really comes through

Edited January 21, 2011 by lojo

[Maverick]

I don't mind being asked to keep things simple, but I'm currently being asked to simplify what I think is an already fairly simple part, because they guitard and drummer think that their parts are really simple and I'm overplaying. In reality, their parts are a lot busier than they seem to think, but as it's a quieter part, quieter is somehow being directly equated with simpler.

It's possible that they're entirely right, just for the completely wrong reason though. Ah well.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Maverick

[sk8]

i like KISS, means i don't have to think!

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='1097124' date='Jan 21 2011, 09:19 AM']"Keep it simple"

If you're hearing this a lot, it's probably right.[/quote]
^^ this.

[el borracho]

How about guitarists duplicating your bass line instead of playing their own part - and I'm talking cover versions - because the bass part is either more interesting than the guitar chords or they shouldn't even be playing anything in that bit A case of the guitarist not keeping it simple!

[Paul S]

I think 'keeping it simple' almost defines the role of the bass guitar. Personally, I don't see the bass as an instrument for complicated soloing or showboating but to be a foundation for the fabric of the song you are playing. Bassist who are busy all the time wear me out, frankly.

With the caveat that I say that from a position of technical incompetence

[Doddy]

The OP says that 'being allowed to play more than just root notes on the beat is a definite must'.
Why is it? Because you get bored? Lack discipline? What if you were given a chart where you just had to play root and fifth on beats 1 and 3 or a ballad full of semibreves? Would you make it more 'interesting' or would you play the part and get hired again?
There are times when the bass can step forward and be melodic or busy,but there are probably even more times when you just have to lay it down with a simple line.Just because you may have some chops,doesn't mean you have to show them off.

Once again,Adam Clayton got mentioned,and I will give my usual response. There is a big difference between someone who plays simply because it is all that they can play (eg.Clayton?),and a player who plays simply because it's the right thing to play (eg.Nathan East?).

[fatback]

Simple doesn't have to be about just playing roots and fifths.

A well-formed melodic part can sound simple where a bad part with the same number of notes sounds busy. Also, a part supporting a vocal line won't necessarily sound busy either. And there are always plenty of gaps you can work with other than the usual spots for fills.

Other than that KISS, for sure

[razze06]

[quote name='TheRev' post='1097150' date='Jan 21 2011, 09:48 AM']'Interesting' and 'simple' aren't mutually exclusive. You could play one note in a bar, which is simple, but the note you choose to play and how and wherein the bar you play it can make that note interesting.[/quote]

This



There's a time and a song for everything, IMO.

[Ghost_Bass]

I think it all depends on what you are playing.

In my old acoustic band (5 piece: drum, bass, vocals, rithm guitar, solo guitar) i had to keep it simple and throw in some fills where it was possible. Now i'm in a four piece funk band (drum, bass, vocal, guitar) where the guitarist keeps it simple and plays at lows volumes (he just fills the sound with some nice lines) so i was forced to make the bass line more "interesting"! However every time i can i try to play simple lines along with the drums...

I like the simple bass lines with lots of groove. Just keep those fills for where they sound great and make your bass stand out of the music, if you use them all the time nobody will pay attention to what you're doing

[EBS_freak]

Let me tell you a story.

Drum workshop featuring Stewart Copeland. Of course, such a drummer is known for his chops and his ability to play some serious outrageous stuff. Anyway, he introduces himself and plays some absolutely ridiculous things. Then he announces to the crowd that he is going to do something that not many people can do. He then proceeds to play a simple, steady 8 beat rock beat, 8 on the hats, 1 and 3 on the bass, 2 and 4 on the snare. No fills, no nothing. Didn't deviate once. For quarter of an hour. The lesson? Discipline. How many drummers do we collectively know who could do that without throwing in a quaver bass drum or something else? Playing exactly what is required and sticking to it with such discipline is something that should not be ignored.

In the bass world, for me, Dave Swift comes to mind. You won't see him doing all his "tradeshow licks" or fancy technical tapping playing... (I don't even know if he can)... but he is always on the money, never puts a foot wrong and always plays exactly what is required... and that is why he has been, and remains in, the bass seat that he has.

Being clever is all well and good. Being simple is what gets the gigs. Doddy is bang on with his reference to Nathan East - another guy who plays exactly what is required.

I've seen Dave Marks comment about this numerous times also. The bass player that gets the groove going with playing his root note crotchets to compliment what the rest of the band is doing, is going to keep that groove better than another player who is embellishing with noodles that interfere with the groove.

[4000]

Depends what you define as simple really (and yes, it is all about context). For instance some would say that John McVie or Rutger Gunnarsson play really simply, but if you really listen to what they're playing it can actually be quite busy. However it's so well thought out and so integral to the song that you don't [i]perceive[/i] it to be busy. Of course Jamerson springs to mind here too....is he considered too busy?

Edited January 21, 2011 by 4000

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='4000' post='1097335' date='Jan 21 2011, 12:04 PM']Depends what you define as simple really (and yes, it is all about context). For instance some would say that John McVie or Rutger Gunnarsson play really simply, but if you really listen to what they're playing it can actually be quite busy. However it's so well thought out and so integral to the song that you don't [i]perceive[/i] it to be busy. Of course Jamerson springs to mind her too....[/quote]

Indeed - good point. These players have become clever by penning catchy lines which become a counter melody, or melody in their own right. The difference between these and other players however - and I guess we have all seen this - are players who typically play notes from the pentatonic to avoid the root to be clever... but in all reality, the tune would have sounded better with root notes because their basslines are anything but melodic.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='4000' post='1097335' date='Jan 21 2011, 12:04 PM']Of course Jamerson springs to mind here too....is he considered too busy?[/quote]

Believe it or not, by the 1970s and Motown's move from Detroit to Los Angeles, he was considered too busy by a lot of producers and had difficulty getting any session work.

[icastle]

Playing root and fifths can be dead boring in the same way that a lead guitarist will perhaps find not playing a lead solo boring - but it's all about taking parts of a jigsaw and putting them together in the right order to create that final picture.

Anyone with a bass guitar and a fistfull of finger fiddles can force 20 confused notes into a bar just because they can, but the guy who gets the gigs, repeated deps and a reputation for good solid playing is always going to be the one who has the discipline to be 'appropriate'.

[Bilbo]

Keep it [i]musical[/i]

Sometimes that means simple. Sometimes it doesn't.

'Being a bass player means getting off on making other people sound good' - Robert Hurst III (Branford and Wynton Marsalis). It takes what it takes. If the part screams sixteenth note unison lines, then nail it. It its minims, nail it. If its triplet 5's against 4, nail it. Play the music, not the instrument. The more I study music, the more the notes matter and the less important the instruments and players are. Serve the music not the id.