The Dark Lord Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The Neanderthal and the Pretty Boys .......... sorry, I mean the drummer and the guitarists in my band, often complain that my bass is too loud in the mix on stage. However, as the only member of the band who plays wirelessly, I am able to stand both where the audience will be and on stage during the sound check. I notice that the sound IS louder on stage, but that if I turn my backline down, then it becomes too quiet in the mix beyond the front of house speakers. If I turn it down for the band, then the audience won't hear me, I spoke to a mate of mine who works in the audio labs of a well-know electronics manufacturer and he tells me that it is down to the fact that lower frequency sound waves eminating from a bass cabinet are of a different shape and nature to those created by the guitarists and drummer. In short, bass sound waves degrade quicker and the sound doesn't travel as far. I cure this by getting the mix right for the band on stage and run a DI feed from my amp to the front of house PA. All of that works okay for me, although probably only as we have decent subs in the PA. I'd appreciate some input. Incidentally, I use either a Marshall 450 Watt head through 1 x 15 and 4 x 10 cabs ........... or an Ampeg 2 x 250 Watt head through two separate 2x12 cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 First of all,I know you're probably joking,but referring to the drummer as 'the neanderthal' is not cool. Possibly the best musicians I have ever worked with have been drummers. I always thought that bass actually travels further than the guitar as their soundwaves are longer. If it's quiet on stage, chances are that at the back of the room it sounds fine. If you are loud on stage the back of the room will be swamped with bass. Your best bet is to have everything at a good,quieter volume on stage and get a good balance through the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mercuryl' post='1097494' date='Jan 21 2011, 01:40 PM']The Neanderthal and the Pretty Boys .......... sorry, I mean the drummer and the guitarists in my band, often complain that my bass is too loud in the mix on stage. However, as the only member of the band who plays wirelessly, I am able to stand both where the audience will be and on stage during the sound check. I notice that the sound IS louder on stage, but that if I turn my backline down, then it becomes too quiet in the mix beyond the front of house speakers. If I turn it down for the band, then the audience won't hear me, I spoke to a mate of mine who works in the audio labs of a well-know electronics manufacturer and he tells me that it is down to the fact that lower frequency sound waves eminating from a bass cabinet are of a different shape and nature to those created by the guitarists and drummer. In short, bass sound waves degrade quicker and the sound doesn't travel as far. I cure this by getting the mix right for the band on stage and run a DI feed from my amp to the front of house PA. All of that works okay for me, although probably only as we have decent subs in the PA. I'd appreciate some input. Incidentally, I use either a Marshall 450 Watt head through 1 x 15 and 4 x 10 cabs ........... or an Ampeg 2 x 250 Watt head through two separate 2x12 cabs.[/quote] Is the drummer complaining about that he can't hear himself (i doubt) or that he can't hear the guitars? It maybe to do with the fact as well that guitar cabs design are still in the dark ages whereas bass cabs are constantly evolving, if the problem is lack of percieved guitar volume on stage then the solution can be. If he is using a 2x12 / 12 combo or 2x12 cab try to get it off the deck. It needs to be 2-3ft of the deck as pref angled up towards the player, he will get better monitoring this way, he should look into buying a amp stand/cradle, . Even if he is using a 4x12 4x10 better to try and get it off the deck, in his field of hearing (i think this is the main problem, its loud but the sound is not hitting his ears) But the ultimate solution is try to get a monitor set. You sound a pretty loud band so what you really need to do is get yourself some monitors if you havnt got them one for you the guitarist, drummer and the singer i.e each side of the stage and the back. Then you can balance out the stage mix, and use your PA to push the sound out into the crowd, ideally you don't really want to be using the backline totally for your band volume, you will go deaf and the sound will be unbalanced across the stage so you can't hear each other. In these sort of situations you should consider getting about 60-70% of your volume from the backline (or even less) the rest should come from the PA, which you should use to balance out and push the sound out in the crowd. Same goes for your monitor mix use it to balance out the sound across each side of the stage, so everyone hears everything and consider shoving a mics on the drum at least the bass, if you PA is good use it it can get you out of a lot of trouble at tricky venues. At the very least the guitarist and the drummer need better monitoring of the sound if you are saying the sound out front is ok. Also the amount of speaker you have will give you a great dispersion on stage, do you really need the?. Most often I use a 2x10 (a very expensive one) even in really big job very often a 4x10 is enough for me (4x4x10 is just for show ha ha). Perhaps you should also look at your placement your sound is probably not getting to you but its getting to everyone else Hope this helps! D PS I play for a fair few different people / Bands, due to the type of work I do, My amp really is now only for my personal enjoyment! and for personal monitoring, Such is the level of advancement of PA stage monitoring, really I do not need an amp these days I can Di through some kind of signal processing. I really do not need any amplification whatsoever I am not saying you should do this, but you can go some way with your system toget the stage volume down and most importantly get a good balanced sound on stage is the name of the game, then you will enjoy, your ears won't ring etc as this is really a thing of the past now as good power amps for PA can be had for so little money. Edited January 21, 2011 by dan670844 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 In my band the neanderthal is on bass and the pretty boy is on drums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 [quote name='dan670844' post='1097567' date='Jan 21 2011, 02:24 PM']Is the drummer complaining about that he can't hear himself (i doubt) or that he can't hear the guitars? It maybe to do with the fact as well that guitar cabs design are still in the dark ages whereas bass cabs are constantly evolving, if the problem is lack of percieved guitar volume on stage then the solution can be. If he is using a 2x12 / 12 combo or 2x12 cab try to get it off the deck. It needs to be 2-3ft of the deck as pref angled up towards the player, he will get better monitoring this way, he should look into buying a amp stand/cradle, . Even if he is using a 4x12 4x10 better to try and get it off the deck, in his field of hearing (i think this is the main problem, its loud but the sound is not hitting his ears) But the ultimate solution is try to get a monitor set. You sound a pretty loud band so what you really need to do is get yourself some monitors if you havnt got them one for you the guitarist, drummer and the singer i.e each side of the stage and the back. Then you can balance out the stage mix, and use your PA to push the sound out into the crowd, ideally you don't really want to be using the backline totally for your band volume, you will go deaf and the sound will be unbalanced across the stage so you can't hear each other. In these sort of situations you should consider getting about 60-70% of your volume from the backline (or even less) the rest should come from the PA, which you should use to balance out and push the sound out in the crowd. Same goes for your monitor mix use it to balance out the sound across each side of the stage, so everyone hears everything and consider shoving a mics on the drum at least the bass, if you PA is good use it it can get you out of a lot of trouble at tricky venues. At the very least the guitarist and the drummer need better monitoring of the sound if you are saying the sound out front is ok. Also the amount of speaker you have will give you a great dispersion on stage, do you really need the?. Most often I use a 2x10 (a very expensive one) even in really big job very often a 4x10 is enough for me (4x4x10 is just for show ha ha). Perhaps you should also look at your placement your sound is probably not getting to you but its getting to everyone else Hope this helps! D PS I play for a fair few different people / Bands, due to the type of work I do, My amp really is now only for my personal enjoyment! and for personal monitoring, Such is the level of advancement of PA stage monitoring, really I do not need an amp these days I can Di through some kind of signal processing. I really do not need any amplification whatsoever I am not saying you should do this, but you can go some way with your system toget the stage volume down and most importantly get a good balanced sound on stage is the name of the game, then you will enjoy, your ears won't ring etc as this is really a thing of the past now as good power amps for PA can be had for so little money.[/quote] Also what about you sound how is it in the mix? are you all bouncing off each other, you need to leave space for each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 +1 for cab stands and low stage volume, reinforcement from monitors if necessary and a good soundman. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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