BFM Omni 15 Tall Boy

[gilmour]

[quote name='PaulMartin' post='141059' date='Feb 15 2008, 02:07 PM']It certainly is. After reading this thread I've got a bad case of BFM GAS. I'm thinking of making a sub for my Omni10.5s. That would make a monster rig.[/quote]
Mmm, tasty, I bet that'll be a HUGE sound, I was reading about that set up somewhere the other day, but I can;t find the thread (might have been at Finnbass)

[thinman]

[quote name='gilmour' post='141086' date='Feb 15 2008, 02:52 PM']Mmm, tasty, I bet that'll be a HUGE sound, I was reading about that set up somewhere the other day, but I can;t find the thread (might have been at Finnbass)[/quote]
Gilmour,

Really interesting and well done.

I've got Omni 10 and Omni 15TB plans and I was set on the Omni10, or a pair of 10.5s but I'm no longer sure given your verdict.

If you don't mind me asking what was the final cost given you built the "full spec" version? I priced up the Omni10 at about £200 using 4 piezos and Deltalite 2510 drivers.

I note in the Omni15 plans that the compression driver tweeter is optional for a bass cab so that would reduce the driver cost and the crossover is simplified too if it was omitted. There's also the option of adding piezo tweeters which probably keep things simpler and cheaper for a bass cab.

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

[El_JimBob]

Hope you don't mind me butting in here, but what impedance does a Omni15 Tallboy end up coming out at? This build diary has had me intrigued from the get go, and i quite fancy having a try myself, but i always prefer the flexibility of two 8ohm cabs....
Congrats on the build tho....

Edited February 15, 2008 by El_JimBob

[OldGit]

Sounds like a great project. Very satisfying.

Get a set of these
[url="http://www.bandland.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2580"]Peavey Pop-out Casters[/url]

They are great 'cos you can pop them out to stand on the stage or another cab (or to go in your boot). They stay in when you need them too and the sockets have a lower profile than cab feet ..

[nedsbeds]

That looks great matey. Well done

[Guest MoJo]

I play in a LOUD rock band and currently play through Marshall 4x10 and 1x15 cabinets. I have purchased the plans for the Full Range Omni 15 like yours. Do you think:
[list=1]
[*]It would be suitable for the music I play?
[*]I could manage without the HF driver?
[/list]

[gilmour]

[quote name='thinman' post='141335' date='Feb 15 2008, 08:02 PM']I've got Omni 10 and Omni 15TB plans and I was set on the Omni10, or a pair of 10.5s but I'm no longer sure given your verdict.

If you don't mind me asking what was the final cost given you built the "full spec" version? I priced up the Omni10 at about £200 using 4 piezos and Deltalite 2510 drivers.

I note in the Omni15 plans that the compression driver tweeter is optional for a bass cab so that would reduce the driver cost and the crossover is simplified too if it was omitted. There's also the option of adding piezo tweeters which probably keep things simpler and cheaper for a bass cab.[/quote]

Hi Thinman,

I haven't worked out the final cost, but I'd etmiate between £350 - £400 (including postage and sundries) I wasn;t very smart with what I bought, buying too much of quite a few things, and also ordering from the same compnies tewice and thus paying double the postage , but I have got a lot of bits left over, screws, glues, bolts, carpet, wood, and of course tools, If I was doing this again and planned what I was buying a little smarter it would cost quite a bit less. I'm able to use all my left over parts to buid an O10.5 and all i've had to buy is a driver and cab fixings (cost about £40).

If you were to omit the compression driver that would be a big saving, about £20 for the driver, £10 for the horn, and about £25 of crossover parts. Omiting the horn will make the electronics a lot simpler and considerably cheaper, I think there are 5 coils if you build the full range, but only 2 when you omit the horn (the coils vary from £5 - £25)

Hope that helps - at some point I'll work out exactly how much this cost me.

Rob

[gilmour]

[quote name='El_JimBob' post='141377' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:35 PM']Hope you don't mind me butting in here, but what impedance does a Omni15 Tallboy end up coming out at? This build diary has had me intrigued from the get go, and i quite fancy having a try myself, but i always prefer the flexibility of two 8ohm cabs....
Congrats on the build tho....[/quote]

This is an 8 ohm Cab - but you'd really have to be going some to need two of them

I've yet to build an Omni 10 - so don;t really know how they compare.

[gilmour]

[quote name='OldGit' post='141386' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:51 PM']Sounds like a great project. Very satisfying.

Get a set of these
[url="http://www.bandland.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2580"]Peavey Pop-out Casters[/url]

They are great 'cos you can pop them out to stand on the stage or another cab (or to go in your boot). They stay in when you need them too and the sockets have a lower profile than cab feet ..[/quote]
Hmmm, interesting.... I may well, that said it;s not heavy, just quite big.

[quote name='nedsbeds' post='141413' date='Feb 15 2008, 10:40 PM']That looks great matey. Well done [/quote]
Thanks Nick, and thanks again for your help soucring parts

[gilmour]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='141423' date='Feb 15 2008, 11:01 PM']I play in a LOUD rock band and currently play through Marshall 4x10 and 1x15 cabinets. I have purchased the plans for the Full Range Omni 15 like yours. Do you think:
[list=1]
[*]It would be suitable for the music I play?
[*]I could manage without the HF driver?
[/list][/quote]
I don't play in a rock band these days, but I have used this to replace my Trace 4x10 and Peavey 1x15. The sensitivity and volume of the cab is amazing, my head isn't the loudest in the world, and I've had no trouble keeping up with my band - and there's 11 of us!

There is a builder on the BFM site who used a single Omni15TB to replace this rig

As you can see his amp section is a little more full on than mine

You can see his thread here:
[url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4311"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4311[/url]

I think it would sound fine without the comp horn, you really don't need it unlees you do a lot of slap or top end work, I could probably have gotten away without one. Finnbass has built the lowboy version without the comp horn, so you might want to ask him.

Rob

Edited February 15, 2008 by gilmour

[gilmour]

Sorry for the string of comprehensive answers, but I guess you can see that building this has taken over my life for the last few weeks! lol And hopefully it'll save you guys trawling the net for these links

I'm off now, I got an O10.5 to build...

[gilmour]

Just in case anyone is interested, last night I did my first gig with the O15.

And what a difference. It was a small Pub/Club gig (in a Slug and Lettuce about 200-250 people ish) so the PA was vox, horns, keys, percussion but anymore would have been driving it a little to hard. So the bass was all down to me.

The Sound was fantastic, I was able to really crank the amp. What was great was that despite not going through the PA I still had plenty of sub. In fact at poitn it was almost too much - there is one track where for the chorus I whack the bass bosst on my pre up full, however with the BFM it's much more sensitive to the changes so when I first whacked it up full - way way too much.

As you'd expect the clarity 'onstage' was much clearer also and I could really hear the subtleties in my playing, dead notes etc. Infact where previously when I wasn't playing i'd just leave the bass hanging around my neck I was having to be much more concious abotut turning the volume down, or mutting using my tuner, as any little sounds really stood out.

At war volume it does 'grunt' a little more, but less than a comparable 6x10, and infact just enough to get rid of a little bit of my relentlessly modern sound which has been worrying me a little of late, so even the grunt was a bonus.

I had more than one comment after the gig on how good the bass sounded, from band and punters.

As I'd said in my proper review I'm dreading the next dep gig I've got where a backline is supplied, and now having used this thing in a gig settign I realy realy am, I don't know how I'm going to go back to that muffled lack of clarity I'd pick this over an Ampeg every day of the week.

[gilmour]

Just thought I'd update this a little as I've been gigging this cab constantly since I finsihed building it, if anything the sound has improved as the speaker has bedded in, giving an even deepr tone

I took it apart at one point to add a wooden speaker gasket to the Mid range driver as I could hear it slapping a little against the Baffle. I had originally used window sealing stirp, but it compressed to much when the speaker was attached. Making a wooden one is something Bill suggsts, but I was too lazy at first (he also suggests Blank Gasket Stock, but I think this may also comrpess to much). The mod was more fiddly because the cab was finished, but even so it took less than an hour, would have taken no time at all if I had done it originally

When the cab was open I took the opportunity to take a better pic of the crossover, it's a bit of a beast...


Anyway the cab sounds amazing, and I have had a lot of compliments on it from band members and other players. I was right to dread gigs where backline is supplied, as when I have done these I find myself wondering how I ever survived with the lack of clarity and lack of bottom end in the sound, even the MC in one of my bands commented on this when I was using a TE combo, and MCs aren'talways the most musical of people.

[b]If you are thinking about building one don't hesitate just get on and do it, It's well worth it.[/b]

Edited June 5, 2008 by gilmour

[clauster]

Cheers Gilmour, after months of deliberating I'm starting my builds this weekend - one O15tb for gigs and one O10.5 for rehearsals and jams.

Happy, happy, joy, joy!

[gilmour]

[quote name='clauster' post='213859' date='Jun 6 2008, 01:39 PM']Cheers Gilmour, after months of deliberating I'm starting my builds this weekend - one O15tb for gigs and one O10.5 for rehearsals and jams.[/quote]

Good luck, it's a really enjoyable process and well worth it, I really mean it when I say every cab I have used since sounds pedestrian. If you're bulding a O15TB then you should look at Dave Perry's build diary over at Finnbass.com he used a melded Piezo array rather than the comp driver saving a lot of money for pretty much the same results.

[Hamster]

Post up a few gig dates when you're going to be using the cab - a sound excuse to pop along for a pint & listen!

Hamster

[lonestar]

Thanks for this Gilmour. What an interesting and inspiring thread.
I hadn't ever thought of building a speaker cab before, although I'm pretty handy with the router and wood glue. I might have to have a go at some point.

Mike

[gilmour]

[quote name='Hamster' post='214161' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:41 AM']Post up a few gig dates when you're going to be using the cab - a sound excuse to pop along for a pint & listen!

Hamster[/quote]
Ironically all of the gigs I have coming up are bigger venues with PA support.

My originals band occisonally does stuff with no PA [url="http://www.thecommonmoralcause.com"]www.thecommonmoralcause.com[/url] all the dep. stuff I do is through a PA (often with a crappy provided backline)

Edited June 9, 2008 by gilmour

[Bigwan]

I'm considering building 2 of these for PA use... I already have the 15" drivers lying around doing nothing.

[lowhand_mike]

just read this and i got the bug again (i'm sure the cream will get rid of it though) was thinking of the omni 10 but i really like the idea of the tallboy 12. and from the looks of your shots it would fit exactly in my my car too (being the same car and all )

[gilmour]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='216399' date='Jun 10 2008, 07:53 PM']just read this and i got the bug again (i'm sure the cream will get rid of it though) was thinking of the omni 10 but i really like the idea of the tallboy 12. and from the looks of your shots it would fit exactly in my my car too (being the same car and all )[/quote]

Love the car, but it's a bit thirsty.

From what I've read the O15 has better low end than the O12 so if you have space I'd go for the O15, sizewise there is only a tiny difference.

Dave Perry talks about the differences in this thread I think
[url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5322&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopi...sc&start=15[/url]

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='gilmour' post='216450' date='Jun 10 2008, 09:46 PM']...From what I've read the O15 has better low end than the O12 so if you have space I'd go for the O15, sizewise there is only a tiny difference.

Dave Perry talks about the differences in this thread I think
[url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5322&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopi...sc&start=15[/url][/quote]
Most bass players (me included) tend to go for a cab that sounds good with the EQ flat, and then make fine adjustments as needed. Most PA people work on the basis that their cabs are non-linear, and need EQ to work effectively. To quote Bill (from memory) 'Thats what they give you all those knobs for'.

The Omni 12 tapers off quite gently at the bottom end, and this does mean that it has less in the 80-120Hz area than an Omni 15, and so can sound bass-weak as a result. It needs EQ to boost the low end and cut the high mids, and in theory will then sound like an Omni 15, but not quite as loud.
[url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5630&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopi...sc&start=15[/url]
There is also a proposed modification to the Omni 12 which gives it better bass guitar response, but reduces the response below that.
[url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5562"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5562[/url]
My suggestion to Bill that EQ is worth a mention on the web page summary of the Omni 12 has not been acted upon.

Dave Perry and a few others are planning an Omni 10/12/15 comparison session in a 200 seat hall, in mid July. We will be looking at their performance un-EQd and EQd. The results will be posted in [url="http://www.finnbass.com/showthread.php?t=2424"]http://www.finnbass.com/showthread.php?t=2424[/url].

My current thinking is that with appropriate EQ, I have a cab that sounds pretty good. However, if a direct comparison shows it still has major shortcomings, I will cut my losses and canibalise it to build an Omni 15.

[gilmour]

Hi Mottlefeeder, I certainly didn't mean to say anything bad about your cab, and I'm sorry if it came accross that way, from what I've read the O12 is giving you exactly the sound you want. I may have misunderstood that thread a little.

I remember reading your thread about EQ, and in fact have commented on EQ on various other threads, in that I'm still unsure Bass players often to leave our EQ flat? As you say above cab sounds good with EQ and as Bill says that's why they give us all the knobs. TBH I probably get carried away with my EQ to the point where I have some Bowel emptying bass.

I haven't heard an O12 and am only going by what I've read so probably unfair of me to comment. However I know that either will be a big improvement on a commercial 1 x 15 or 2 x10 etc, especially if you are after a more modern tone.

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='gilmour' post='216927' date='Jun 11 2008, 02:52 PM']Hi Mottlefeeder, I certainly didn't mean to say anything bad about your cab, and I'm sorry if it came accross that way, from what I've read the O12 is giving you exactly the sound you want. I may have misunderstood that thread a little.

I remember reading your thread about EQ, and in fact have commented on EQ on various other threads, in that I'm still unsure Bass players often to leave our EQ flat? As you say above cab sounds good with EQ and as Bill says that's why they give us all the knobs. TBH I probably get carried away with my EQ to the point where I have some Bowel emptying bass.

I haven't heard an O12 and am only going by what I've read so probably unfair of me to comment. However I know that either will be a big improvement on a commercial 1 x 15 or 2 x10 etc, especially if you are after a more modern tone. [/quote]
I am not offended, and neither is my cab.

The O12 sounded really good with a Warwick and flatwound strings, but it was only when I started to analyse why others were less than impressed that I realised its mid-range hump worked with flatwounds, but was too toppy for roundwounds. I have since sold the Warwick and now have a Yamaha fretless with roundwounds, so my needs have changed.

I agree that bass players use EQ, but their initial stance is usually 'Can I hear it with the EQ flat first?' That was the point at which most players at the bass bash seemed to drift away from the O12. The O12 certainly goes deeper than my previous cabs, and does not boom while doing so, but it lacks body around 80-120 Hz, and this is where the previously mentioned modification comes in. It also has mids and a top end that need to be reduced, which begs the question, should a bass player have to buy a graphic eq to get a good sound from his/her rig?

My personal view of EQ is that it is like a car accelerator pedal. If you have it at maximum all the time, then something is wrong, and with the O12, you may use most of your EQ correcting the speaker response, leaving you short on knob travel or preamp headroom to get the sound you want. That's the area I was discussing in other threads on BFM's forum.

[gilmour]

Glad you weren't offended, I was a little worried I'd said something worng

I now understand what you mean about EQ.

My Eden head has no graphic, just a Bass, Mid and Treble Control, I have Bass and Mid at about 6, and treble backed off to about 4 (3 when I've got new strings on!), It sounds good flat, but just the subtle adjustments make it sound better. I've messed around with extreme EQ's (as you do) and found that If I push any frequency to the max then it is way way too much, but this may well vary from amp to amp, the Eden ahs a very even response, wheras some amps have 90% of their range in about 20% of their dial.

I've tried my cab with both mr Eden and Trace heads, and the Eden sounds much better, but then it's brand new and the trace is 15 years old so that was to be expected. I'd really like to hear one with the Mark Bass as everyone races about that.