Dave D Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Is it better to use the send/return for effects rather than through the effect and then into the amp? I guess that the main reason is that when the effects are off then the sound should be pure, but i guess that its not as simple as that Also, would you guys use your usual guitar leads for this connection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 As I understand it guitar and bass pedals are designed to run with the tiny amount of voltage that comes out of a bass. FX loops can deliver a higher output which may be too much for some pedals. Send/return loops are really there for rack mount kit (compressors, reverb units etc...) that can deal with the 'hot' signal from the loop. Depends on the spec of your amp for the leads question. A good amp will have balanced (TRS) sockets, and you should use balanced connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Fly Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='DrDave' post='1099001' date='Jan 22 2011, 07:42 PM']Is it better to use the send/return for effects rather than through the effect and then into the amp?[/quote] Not necessarily. Send/return connetions are usually placed between preamplifier and power amplifier. In the majority of amps they are at line level (in orther words they are hotter than the signal of your bass). Not all pedals or multi-fx units can operate at line level. A good example are fuzz pedals , distortion units or compressors that are usually tuned at instrument level. Moreover, the return jack is a low impedance input that it is likely to overload the output of the effect connected to it. To summarise, you should use in the send/return loop effects that are designed to operate at line level. Some pedals can operate succesfully at instrument or line level (e.g. the [sfx] micro-Thumpinator) but they are exceptions. Rack units on the other side are, in the majority of cases, designed to operate at line level and not at instrument level. There are ways to connect standard [i]instrument level[/i] effects in the s/r loop but it requires an attenuator after the send jack (to reduce the signal from line to instrument) and a line level driver before the return jack (to boost the signal to line level and match the impedance). [send]-->attenuator-->(fx)-->(fx)-->(fx)-->line_level_driver-->[return] [quote name='DrDave' post='1099001' date='Jan 22 2011, 07:42 PM']I guess that the main reason is that when the effects are off then the sound should be pure, but i guess that its not as simple as that [/quote] If the pedals are true-bypass, they are connected properly and they are off if shouldn't make any difference if they are between instrument and amp or the send/return loop. The reason why processing units placed in the send/return loops operate better is that the signal is already preamplifed. If a processing unit produces noise (all of them do) the noise is amplified by the preamplifier only if it is place [i]before[/i] the preamplifier. As the s/r loop is after the preamplifier the output noise is lower. [quote name='DrDave' post='1099001' date='Jan 22 2011, 07:42 PM']Also, would you guys use your usual guitar leads for this connection?[/quote] You should use standard guitar leads for send/return connections. The only exception are balanced s/r loops that require jack TRS connections or XLR connections. It is unlikely thay you will find them unless you use separate preamp and power amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuee Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Also, if you are working with a P.A. system the engineer will nearly always prefer to take a D.I. [i]before[/i] your amp, so obviously if your effects are being injected further down the chain they won't reach the P.A. The reason I think they prefer this is so they know they are just getting unfettered signal from your bass, or pre-amp/effects if you have them, rather than possible weird noise, levels and/or EQ from your amp. All it takes is for an inexperienced (or drunk or clumsy) bass player to accidentally hit the pre/post button mid-gig and things can get very hairy out front. I know, I have been that guy! Also, built-in amp D.I.'s are notorious for being problematic and/or sounding poo, although this is probably mostly unfounded nowadays. The Trace Elliot ones were not popular a few years ago, I know that much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='paul_5' post='1099014' date='Jan 22 2011, 07:52 PM']A good amp will have balanced (TRS) sockets, and you should use balanced connectors.[/quote] Are you sure they're TRS? I thought being mono signals it would just be TS sockets (as the 1/4 jacks are TS). I know on the MB LMII has a jumper to switch the fx send to either pre or post (one of them has both clean & fx signal blended) & there was a debate a while back about fx sends & most folk seem to avoid the loop (me included). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Stuee' post='1099617' date='Jan 23 2011, 01:40 PM']The Trace Elliot ones were not popular a few years ago, I know that much![/quote] I know a highly qualified and [i]very[/i] busy sound engineer who calls them Trasssssssssssssssssssssse Elliot! Edited January 29, 2011 by paul_5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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