4 Strings Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Now I can appreciate in- ear monitoring for vocals but has anyone had to play with in-ear monitoring instead of using backline amps? I have such a gig on Friday. Is this sound man control gone mad? I can't imagine rocking out to my own little headphone world. Guitars certainly won't be getting any feedback! What's next, taking headphones to watch too, doing away with the whole amps thing altogether and enjoying a perfect mix? Upon argument we've been asked to give it a try before using our backline. Drums are behind shields so we'll still need 'phones for those. Rather than completely miked up kit and sending a signal back to us I'm hoping to be able to just remove the screens. Anyone else had to play like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' post='1101387' date='Jan 24 2011, 09:10 PM']Now I can appreciate in- ear monitoring for vocals but has anyone had to play with in-ear monitoring instead of using backline amps? I have such a gig on Friday. Is this sound man control gone mad? I can't imagine rocking out to my own little headphone world. Guitars certainly won't be getting any feedback! What's next, taking headphones to watch too, doing away with the whole amps thing altogether and enjoying a perfect mix? Upon argument we've been asked to give it a try before using our backline. Drums are behind shields so we'll still need 'phones for those. Rather than completely miked up kit and sending a signal back to us I'm hoping to be able to just remove the screens. Anyone else had to play like this?[/quote] In studio sessions - yes, more often than not, but certainly not at a gig. Not too sure what the sound mans rationale is here but the first time I was persuaded to let a sound man take full control of my sound during a live performance was the last time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have done gigs just using the DI from the little Genz head with a fold back through stage monitors only which I suppose would be the same but just not worn my head? The owner of the place has volume issues so makes all the bands play like that most go straight into the desk so at least I had a little bit of valve warmth to give me some gain and tone rather than just whatever he gives you through the desk. Strange playing with cans on anyway I dont really like it, Even when in the studio I would rather put my amp in the vocal booth and stand in the control room playing remotely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKent Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I usually have in-ear monitors on any bigger gig with engineer, but I'd never let them take my amp away for it. He's gone loony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Absolutely great for vocals. Not so great for bass if you're used to conductive hearing through your body! It's going to work better for a toppier sound, so it depends on your tone. Those things like the Tecamp Pleasure Pump are quite an interesting solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuee Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) I can tell you from experience that in-ear-monitoring (without an amp) in a live situation (or any for that matter) SUCKS for bass. There are so many things about it that I dislike anyway (some down to personal preference, some practicality, some vibe-related, + the fear of being deafened), but the main thing that is more specific to bass is that without an amp or decent monitor you can't [b]feel[/b] anything, and we all know you have to feel bass, not just hear it. One thing you could do, if the engineer is up for it, is augment your in-ears by having a sub unit on stage with you. This won't interfere with any live mic's but it should at least let you feel a little of what you're doing. Worth talking to him about it anyway. Edited January 24, 2011 by Stuee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I love in ears for all monitoring, for me the quieter onstage the better, it becomes particularly useful when playing with a large ensemble. I did a gig in Germany with 6 piece rock band and 45 piece orchestra, there was an amp but I didn't need it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 [quote name='LawrenceH' post='1101434' date='Jan 24 2011, 09:46 PM']Absolutely great for vocals. Not so great for bass if you're used to conductive hearing through your body! It's going to work better for a toppier sound, so it depends on your tone. Those things like the Tecamp Pleasure Pump are quite an interesting solution.[/quote] I'm not going to google for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I love using in ear monitors,and use them pretty much all the time. One function band I play with has got rid of all amps on stage-we're all running Pod's and in ears. We get a really good sound both out front and individually,with no one fighting each other for volume. The panto I just did had all the band on in ears (via an Aviom system) with no amps at all,and it was great. I don't think that using in ears "SUCKS for bass" at all. I'd happily use them with no backline at any gig. They've also helped me to improve my singing,because I can hear all the vocals clearly and can sing without having to strain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 [quote name='Stuee' post='1101451' date='Jan 24 2011, 09:55 PM']I can tell you from experience that in-ear-monitoring (without an amp) in a live situation (or any for that matter) SUCKS for bass. There are so many things about it that I dislike anyway (some down to personal preference, some practicality, some vibe-related, + the fear of being deafened), but the main thing that is more specific to bass is that without an amp or decent monitor you can't [b]feel[/b] anything, and we all know you have to feel bass, not just hear it. One thing you could do, if the engineer is up for it, is augment your in-ears by having a sub unit on stage with you. This won't interfere with any live mic's but it should at least let you feel a little of what you're doing. Worth talking to him about it anyway.[/quote] Exactly my feelings. I want to feel the drums too. I hope there will be compromise (the singer/leader/keyboard player is up for it, but then he would be). Guitar feedback for shipwreck endings are going to be fun. Its a small venue which will run perfectly well with backline and maybe some reinforcement for the bass drum. If I was the sound man I couldn't help but turn the front of house off and watch the band grooving out to the sound of plectrums on strings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' post='1101635' date='Jan 25 2011, 12:37 AM']I'm not going to google for that.[/quote] I did. How the hell am I supposed to get that in my ear!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' post='1101387' date='Jan 24 2011, 09:10 PM']Now I can appreciate in- ear monitoring for vocals but has anyone had to play with in-ear monitoring instead of using backline amps? I have such a gig on Friday. Is this sound man control gone mad? I can't imagine rocking out to my own little headphone world. Guitars certainly won't be getting any feedback! What's next, taking headphones to watch too, doing away with the whole amps thing altogether and enjoying a perfect mix? Upon argument we've been asked to give it a try before using our backline. Drums are behind shields so we'll still need 'phones for those. Rather than completely miked up kit and sending a signal back to us I'm hoping to be able to just remove the screens. Anyone else had to play like this?[/quote] Sadly yes now most of the time thats how it is i am afraid, for bass I still use cabs /amps for monitoring you need some localised thump (bit of wind in your back) for bass but the in ear is great for hearing the rest of the stage mix. Most of the huge stage bass guitar/ rigs you see are mostly for show / ego . Most of the on stage sound comes out of localised monitoring and the out front from PA line array whatever. I think its a good thing the sound quality on stage is now superb and loud enough! I would imagine the sound guy will let you use your own amps for personal monitoring in particular guitars and bass. You need to feel the bass a bit to play right. The in ear is for you to hear other people not yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1101639' date='Jan 25 2011, 12:41 AM']I love using in ear monitors,and use them pretty much all the time. One function band I play with has got rid of all amps on stage-we're all running Pod's and in ears. We get a really good sound both out front and individually,with no one fighting each other for volume. The panto I just did had all the band on in ears (via an Aviom system) with no amps at all,and it was great. I don't think that using in ears "SUCKS for bass" at all. I'd happily use them with no backline at any gig. They've also helped me to improve my singing,because I can hear all the vocals clearly and can sing without having to strain[/quote] We use Aviom as well, which is great as I can set my own mix (though a curse if it needs tweaking). For a while I was just using a BassPOD with the IEM, but one of the guitarists didn't like the IEM's and the drummer said he felt too isolated, so we had to have monitors for the bass on stage for those NOT using IEM's. They never seemed to move the air in the same way as a bass amp which is why I ended up getting the MB combo. Now I don't bother with the BOD anymore but still use the IEM from the Aviom. You need a decent set of plugs to get the bass. And finally to just jump on without having tried it out in a r/h is almost certain to end in disaster IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I have mixed feelings on inears. On loud gigs, it's a god send, but you need decent a preamp for bass (sansamp etc) if there is no amp on stage. If the drummer is behind a screen, the sound guy has more control on the sound, and the same with guitars if it’s miked, which is the most important thing. For vocals and keys, it's easy to put them through the desk, but there are very few decent preamps for guitars that work well for DI, but to be honest they usually don't sound right. I do alot of gigs with in-ears, but we still have amps on stage, but they don't need to be very loud, so the stage noise is much lower and you have no wedges on stage, if you do Bv's it's even better as you can hear everything, but without a bit of stage noise in the mix it's a bit like doing a session. No amps??? hmm not sure The reason for inears is really for improved monitoring, as a stage or audience is too noisy, just turning up your amp makes things worse for you and the sound guy, that's why Take That started using it in the 90's. It takes awhile to get used to it, so but if it's done well with mixing and good inears, it’s great. I still like to have my amp though on stage:-) I think some people are very used to a loud stage sound with the PA topping up the volume. Technically it should the front of house is the main sound and the stage noise is only there to produce the initial sounds for the PA, the PA provides most of the monitoring whether a wedge or PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Well, thought I'd report back on what happened. The space is used as a church which, perhaps is why all this came about as the drums were in a totally enclosed booth (complete with lid) a fan and an air con unit. The main problem was trying to get a click track to the drummer along with monitoring (as all he will hear are deafening drums in there!). The sound guys failed at this. The in-ear mix was split in two so we couldn't have our own mix. This and the bass sounding like a *art out of the PA, which was not a particularly powerful system, was the end. Took an hour to get this far, but it was with much relief that the decision was made to go with backline. Didn't relieve the poor drummer though who had to make do with just an in-ear click, deafening drums and watching the singers jaw movements in order to keep up with where we were in the gig. Rather smelled too. We got through it ok but a gig the following evening with a pro theatre sound guy and normal foldback and backline was like a breath of fresh air. Conclusion for me, in-ear might be fine for pantos etc but for something needing more of a performance it didn't work. Giving sound men total control instead of having a great performance is, for me even as a punter, an easy choice. Edited February 1, 2011 by 4 Strings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Sounds like a soundguy who wasn't much cop to be honest. Like I say,I use in ears all the time for gigs where more of a performance is required and love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Sorry to hijack this thread but i have a similar question. Ill be doing some small functions this year and i wont be able ot use a cab. The band have a smallish PA but everything normally goes through it. Ive done a few with them without an amp and it was murder. The singer has a 10" powered monitor and i have to stand behind him, and rely on the monitor to hear myself. This year i want to sort something out so I can hear myself better. It has to be very small and cheap. Any sugestions? I use a BDDI so i was thinking use the jack out in to a small headphone amp i have (matchbox size) and use my Shure in ear phones. Not ideal but it will at least get some of my ow end in to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='1111432' date='Feb 1 2011, 06:47 PM']Sorry to hijack this thread but i have a similar question. Ill be doing some small functions this year and i wont be able ot use a cab. The band have a smallish PA but everything normally goes through it. Ive done a few with them without an amp and it was murder. The singer has a 10" powered monitor and i have to stand behind him, and rely on the monitor to hear myself. This year i want to sort something out so I can hear myself better. It has to be very small and cheap. Any sugestions? I use a BDDI so i was thinking use the jack out in to a small headphone amp i have (matchbox size) and use my Shure in ear phones. Not ideal but it will at least get some of my ow end in to my ears.[/quote] I've done, that.. if you can get the FOH in your mix.. you can adjust your bass in your ears to taste.. it should be fine.. you'dd get the warmth from the BDDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Just use one ear to monitor you bass and one open to the gig. Its not ideal (but then neither is the situation!) but you'll get some of your bass and can have your own control of how much etc. The in-ear phones leak so if really needed you can pop in the other one. Can't you even fit in a little 1x12 and lift it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Cheers guys. First off its just a vocal PA so no FOH desk or anything like that. The band are loud enough that almost any headphone will work. I just need to hear myself a bit better, i dont want a mix in them. Its not really practical getting another cab, I might only have one or two gigs with this band so i don't want to spend money on something that wont get used. Saying that, i already have a 1210R sitting around at their drummers house, maybe i could do a trade on here for something smaller. I would still need a small head but im hoping to get one this year anyway. Edited February 4, 2011 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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