Skol303 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hi folks, I'm a beginner who's currently learning scales (as well as notation generally...). So far I've familiarised myself with major, minor (including pentatonics) and blues - all nice and easy! My question is: what should I learn next? In other words - what are the most 'useful' scales to know, other than those I've already learned? E.g. harmonic/melodic minor, lydian flat-seven, diminished, whole-tone, altered, etc, etc... (it's like learning a new language!). Also, I notice that each scale can be played in different 'modes' - Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, etc. Again, which of these modes are most useful? There appears to be a lot I have to learn, but I'm keen to do so. I just don't want to waste my time learning stuff that I'll rarely ever use. If it helps to know, I play all sorts of music but tend to focus on rock/metal, dub/drum 'n' bass and some jazz. Any advice gratefully received. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If you are pretty solid on the major and minor scales and their pentatonics,you are off to a good start. Maybe take a look at the various minor scales-natural/melodic/harmonic. If you want the most useful modes,try Dorian and Mixolydian. Ionian and Aeolian are just major and minor. I'd recommend taking a look at arpeggios over some of the more 'exotic' scales. They're all important,but you'll probably get more use from arpeggios. Check out a book like 'Chord Studies' for some great study material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Also, it's worth learning all the intervals and the various ways to play them. Scales are just a series of relative and cumulative intervals and if you understand this, all scales are unbelievably simple to grasp. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 ^ Cheers guys, very useful feedback as always! Arpeggios and intervals are now on my 'homework' list... PS: Dan - I've been having great fun with that Morley wah pedal I bought off you last year! Hope all's well with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1103707' date='Jan 26 2011, 02:23 PM']Also, it's worth learning all the intervals and the various ways to play them. Scales are just a series of relative and cumulative intervals and if you understand this, all scales are unbelievably simple to grasp. Dan[/quote] Exactly what he said! Learn the major scale, learn why it is that way, and rest will follow very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='Skol303' post='1103742' date='Jan 26 2011, 02:44 PM']PS: Dan - I've been having great fun with that Morley wah pedal I bought off you last year! Hope all's well with you.[/quote] Great stuff, Paul! I've bought a Line 6 M13 so I've been abusing the wahs on that! With the interval stuff, just learn the major and minor scales on one string. This will help you visualise the distance between your root note (open string) and say a major or minor third. You want to learn the names and sounds of the interval between your open string and anything else up to fret 12 (and beyond, but start at 12). I guarantee that if you do this with all your major modes (and by playing the minor scale, you've nailed two of the seven already) you'll have your modes, your ear and your intervallic understanding totally nailed. Dan PS. Only one of my students ever really put the work in and got this and now he's a successful professional player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devinebass Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Major scales Check this out... [url="http://scottsbasslessons.com/video-tutorials/how-to-practice-scales/"]http://scottsbasslessons.com/video-tutoria...ractice-scales/[/url] Easy, Scott. [url="http://www.scottsbasslessons.com"]http://www.scottsbasslessons.com[/url] [url="http://www.scottdevinemusic.com"]http://www.scottdevinemusic.com[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1103825' date='Jan 26 2011, 03:20 PM']With the interval stuff, just learn the major and minor scales on one string. This will help you visualise the distance between your root note (open string) and say a major or minor third. You want to learn the names and sounds of the interval between your open string and anything else up to fret 12 (and beyond, but start at 12). PS. Only one of my students ever really put the work in and got this and now he's a successful professional player.[/quote] ^^ Cheers Dan, that's a good tip for me to practice with. By the way, I might be in the market for some lessons this year, so I'll drop you a line if/when... ^ Thanks also Scott, that a goldmine of info you've let me into there!! Nice one. [ I love this forum... :-) ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Hubbard Bass Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The Mixafewofthem Scale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devinebass Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='Joe Hubbard Bass' post='1104079' date='Jan 26 2011, 05:31 PM']The Mixafewofthem Scale! [/quote] Oooo i love the complex sound of the Mixafewofthem mode, another favorite of mine is the myxomatosis scale Easy, Scott. [url="http://www.scottsbasslessons.com"]http://www.scottsbasslessons.com[/url] [url="http://www.scottdevinemusic.com"]http://www.scottdevinemusic.com[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If you've got the major, minor and their pentatonics down, I'd start learning some of the modes rather than more scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Add diminished and augmented and you have the lot, pretty much. Its the modes of each scale that make it complicated. So Major, Natural Minor, Harmonic Minor, Melodic Minor, Blues Scale Diminished and Augmented. That's 99% of the music most of us will ever play. Oh, and don't forget the Chromatic Scale (every note) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 A user asked me to go into some detail about my open-string suggestion. I've been on the malt so it's a bit rambly, but here's my reply: [quote]I'll paste some of this into the thread but I'll keep you anonymous if you like; my thinking is that if you're asking this question, I can guarantee that there's 10 other people equally nervous about asking the question but who didn't get the courage to ask for help with it. I'm a high school music teacher so I'm sorry if any of my reply patronises you, but it's best to start at the very beginning (it's a very good place to start - Julie Andrews!). I suggested using open strings as the root because its a simple thing to do and most bass players just learn the shapes from a book and never understand what they mean; this basic understanding of the rules of theory allow us to quite confidently blag our way through pretty much anything (I did this for 5 years) but to really get a good grasp of chord tones and relative and cumulative intervals (the terms I use to describe to distance between notes in the scale and the distance between the root and the notes within a scale), a more thorough approach is necessary. First of all, you need to name the interval between the root and each fret. Then you need to listen to them as double stops to develop your ear. Take your time and play the sounds together. Could you (without thinking about it too much) play a major or minor scale from the open string to the octave? That's the next step. If not, that's a hole in your knowledge you should attempt to plug. It's quite easy to do if you already know the shapes so just try it. Then try all seven modes, naming the interval abouve the root out loud as you go; work in this order: 1. Lydian 2. Ionian 3. Mixolydian 4. Dorian 5. Aeolian 6. Phrygian 7. Locrian We're continually developing our ear and our ability to think in intervals. If you suffer from dyslexia (like me) or dyspraxia this is going to be difficult. Focus on the ear training and let the rest some over time. Basically, I've just shrunk down about 3 months of decent A-Level lessons in 3 paragraphs. This can be difficult, but it's worth spending the time. Actions: 1. Create a word document with a table in it with 12 boxes. Write the names of the 12 intervals in the boxes, print it out and stick it somewhere. 2. Refresh your knowledge of the modes and figure out how each is played on 1 string. My god, its late and that's a lot to think about!![/quote] It gets a bit teacher-y towards the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I should've also added: 3. Make a 13 x 8 grid in word with the names of the modes down the left (in the order above) and the names of the intervals along the top. Put a cross in each of the interval boxes that occur in each mode. You'll notice some interesting mathematical patterns! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Why would you suggest practising the modes in that particular order,rather than according to their scale degree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1104664' date='Jan 27 2011, 01:41 AM']Why would you suggest practising the modes in that particular order,rather than according to their scale degree?[/quote] I would recommend people practice them in all the orders they can possible think of, but this is the modes in the cycle of fifths, ergo one note is flattened each time (Lydian > Ionion = b4 / Ionion > Mixolydian = b7). It fits with the memorization of the intervals since only one interval changes at a time, but you are also practicing the modes and the cycle of fifths. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Whatever you learn, try it out in a musical context. Get together with some musician friends, or if you have some recording gear, try recording a simple chord sequence, and have a play around with what you've learned. Listen to how the scales and modes sound - experiment! BTW learn to play the scales and modes over 2 octaves and beyond, and using different intervals 3rds, 4ths etc. Edited for clarity Edited January 28, 2011 by SteveK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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