GB Shuttle vs EBS

[nemo]

Hi, anybody compared Shuttle 9 to EBS (350 or 650)?

I realy like the tone profile of EBS HD350 I have played couple of times - it is firm down low, quick, but still warm.

Could you please compare these two? Thanks.

[Soliloquy]

I think the biggest difference is that the Shuttles are class D. The bonus of that is the lack of a fan in the amp. I've found the EBS fans to be very noisy.

Sound wise I think the Shuttle 9 would sound a lot warmer than the EBS or the Shuttle 6.

The 9 is best I think for 5 or 6 string basses. The Shuttle 6 has a built in roll off at (I think) 45Hz, and from my experience EBS gear does the same sort of thing.

[stingrayPete1977]

From my experience shuttle 6.0 and EBS 650 are chalk and cheese and I cant see the 9.0 sounding much different to the 6.0. Neither are right or wrong but very different animals the Genz appears to be able to produce a more natural sound almost to the point some don't like it, you can't really say something has a gb tone like you can most others including EBS for me I would rather colour it myself or add a little bit of drive to taste hence what rig I now use in my sig. Try them out I'd say is the only way.

Edited January 28, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1105787' date='Jan 28 2011, 01:14 AM']From my experience shuttle 6.0 and EBS 650 are chalk and cheese and I cant see the 9.0 sounding much different to the 6.0. Neither are right or wrong but very different animals the Genz appears to be able to produce a more natural sound almost to the point some don't like it, you can't really say something has a gb tone like you can most others including EBS for me I would rather colour it myself or add a little bit of drive to taste hence what rig I now use in my sig. Try them out I'd say is the only way.[/quote]

Have to disagree - and it depends on what you consider "a natural sound".

Get the EBS on a scope and the EBS without the character switch engaged, you shall see that the TD and HD stuff has a completely flat response with a natural roll off on the sub bass to ensure the amp maximises what it can do with the power (no point making your speakers work for something you can't hear). It's pretty honest in delivering out what you get in. It has much father reaching EQ than other amps meaning you can really get those top frequencies out. It is this that most people mistake as a shaped EQ - combined with the EBS cabs, with a very wide reaching tweeter, this can be reproduced live. Other amps shelve the top end response and other cabs don't have the wider reaching tweeter. It's all down to want you want... but remember, you can take away super highs but you can't add them! As for fans, the TD650 has quite a beefy one yes (but not something I would describe as "noisy"), but not so for the HD350 . People commenting on the fans are repeating hearsay that they've read... the HD350 is silent.

The character switch gives you the "instant Marcus" scooped sound with extended highs and lows.

As for the Genz, Shuttle 6 surpesses deep bass more than the Shuttle 9 again - to keep the available power for the more useful frequencies. It kinda makes me laugh when you see certain bass cabs boasting extended lows when using a Shuttle 6... because the frequencies aren't there in the first place. Ah well...

Of course, as soon as you add a cab, things change again - each cab has a different response so will influence your tone again. Again, mix in a valve, things change again.

If you find the HD350 warm, then great - because most people see EBS as quite "sterile". The biggest difference you'll see in these two amps are a ) the price new (although HD350s can be got for a bargain s/h) b ) the power stage. Big transformers deliver their power differently to class D amps - but you'll only notice this at loud volumes, playing lower frequencies or where there are high transients. c) the size... afterall, the HD350 is pretty light... the TD650 not so much so.

Edited January 28, 2011 by EBS_freak

[nemo]

Thanks for the info. I will definitely try the Shuttle 9 in person, but I am interested if it retains the punch and firmness of "heavy iron transformer" type amps.
I know it is the Class D, but with 900W it should be at least comparable with 350W of iron transformer HD350. Or can you still hear certain difference?

[sk8]

Lots love it but i found the Shuttle 9.0 too bass light for me

[Ghost_Bass]

I have the 9.0 and tried the 6.0, they're very diferent!. The 9 puts out more lows, i run mine completely flat and all the tone shaping i ever need comes from my pu balance knob. I keep my EQ with Highs in the middle, a little (and i mean little +/- 2º to 5º) scoop on the mid and again the same little boost on the lows and finally blend in another little bit of piezzo. I used the same EQ with my trace and now my sound is more defined and has more attack!
The shuttle can do all those higher freqs... i like a HiFi'ish sound and was forced to roll off the tweeter control to 9 o'clock because it screamed too much (in a very musical way).

Never tried EBS gear extensively but from quick contacts with them i got the impression they had a very defined sound, were punchy yet fat but it still sounded too artificial to my ears hence me going for the shuttle combination. It realy puts out what it recieves. I tried mine with my guitarist guitar and muting the amp you could still hear the same timbre coming out of the guitar!

I can't recomend Genz enough but i'm fully aware that's just because i own one and probably am trying to excuse the big investment... but don't we all do that?

[benh]

I've been using a Shuttle 6.0 for 5 months now with a Barefaced Compact and I've never experienced any of this supposed "lack of low-end". I use a 5 string and have never struggled with clarity on the low B... sure, technically the 6 rolls off at a higher frequency than the 9 - but to human ears (well my ears at least) it handles all the lows you'd need with ease... just my 2p!

[Soliloquy]

[quote name='benh' post='1106081' date='Jan 28 2011, 12:16 PM']I've been using a Shuttle 6.0 for 5 months now with a Barefaced Compact and I've never experienced any of this supposed "lack of low-end". I use a 5 string and have never struggled with clarity on the low B... sure, technically the 6 rolls off at a higher frequency than the 9 - but to human ears (well my ears at least) it handles all the lows you'd need with ease... just my 2p![/quote]

I'm told that by switching in the 'low' button, then you actually lower the bass roll off thing to 31Hz, which is a low B.

[Salt on your Bass?]

+1 thats my understanding. Rather than boosting any frequencies, it extends them downwards. Wasnt sure of exactly how far though.

[quote name='Soliloquy' post='1106434' date='Jan 28 2011, 04:59 PM']I'm told that by switching in the 'low' button, then you actually lower the bass roll off thing to 31Hz, which is a low B.[/quote]

Edited January 28, 2011 by Salt on your Bass?

[Soliloquy]

There are loads of really useful and very informative threads on Talkbass about the Shuttle's. There's a guy on there who actually designed the amps, he goes by the name of 'agedhorse'.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Soliloquy' post='1106434' date='Jan 28 2011, 04:59 PM']I'm told that by switching in the 'low' button, then you actually lower the bass roll off thing to 31Hz, which is a low B.[/quote]
Interesting as I have only just started on a 5 string so I need to have a play with that in more detail.

As for the EBS sound thing like Russ said you can switch it out so in fairness Im probably comparing what we think of as an EBS sound which is hard to describe rather than its flat sound, I wouldnt mind hearing one through my cab rather than the EBS cab. I do recall the cabs having a certain tone to them when we tried it against my GB 2x12, a Bergantino 1x12 and an EBS 2x10 Not the fairest test but the Genz cab was defo clearest whether thats good or bad is upto you, the Berg was the next most natural sounding but with a slightly smoother sound but less defined top to it (very nice cab in my wanted this year list) the EBS soundest the most high quality but with a certain something that doesnt do it for me personally but that really is a personal thing rather than a criticism. This was with my 6.0 head and an Auguilar head I think (Russ?)

You cant really knock these little GB heads though can you? We are comparing a small box to a big heavy box costing much more new, If someone else were setting it up and carrying it around then maybe I would go back to a big head but unless something very radical happened Im a lightweight guy all the way now.

Edited January 28, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[thodrik]

I have never tried any Genz Benz stuff myself, though I'm sure they are great. I have never tried EBS stuff and walked away feeling let down. I do think that the amps tend to have a very transparent sound to them, which isn't for everyone, as some consider them to be a bit sterile. The cabs are great at reproducing the really high frequencies, though I find the Proline series to just be a bit heavy for me.

I currently play through a Fafner and it is probably about the most flexible amps I have tried in terms of sound, as it can either be very clean or very warm. I preferred it over the 650 because of the ease of use really. The new Fafner looks incredible but would probably overwhelm me.

[geoffbyrne]

[quote name='Soliloquy' post='1106535' date='Jan 28 2011, 06:13 PM']There are loads of really useful and very informative threads on Talkbass about the Shuttle's. There's a guy on there who actually designed the amps, he goes by the name of 'agedhorse'.[/quote]

Here:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=694819&highlight=agedhorse"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.p...light=agedhorse[/url]


Post #8, #13, #16, #19, especially #21, #29, #57, #64, #70 & #71 - I can't actually put my finger on the post that states the 31Hz, it must be in another thread, but I've read it in there somewhere, I just can't be arsed searching through all of Agedhorse's postings on talkbass. But be assured, with the 'Bass Extend' button engaged, there is little or no noticable difference in bottom end between the Shuttle 6 & pretty much anything else.

I'm not selling mine because of lack of bottom - it's because I'm used to having 3 Mids controls on my Ashdown.

G.

[stingrayPete1977]

Also worth pointing out that EBS freak has the EBS obviously where I use the Genz shuttle and out of the two of us I would say I was the predominately low end root note guy where he uses the flexibility of his gear at both ends and everything between tonaly but live I think as far as bottom goes we both would have what most players watching would say was a good sound with plenty of bottom and neither rigs would be even close to their maximum low output settings. This low end light stuff is rubbish trust me.

[nemo]

Thanks guys, great info! Go on..

[Salt on your Bass?]

I find my 9 has plenty of thump down low, without the lf engaged. Its warm and organic. If had had one criticism of the shuttle is that i dont get any drive out of it, or crunch . I run a very hot active 5, and i like my distortion crunch and overdrive. It wont give you this, although the new streamliner serie from genz might. However i stick a vt bass deluxe infront and it is thunderous , grindy and full. Which makes the fact its clean great.

I have no experience with ebs im afraid. Although i do think for the types of amps these are, that is pretty high end,the cab choice will make a massive difference - someone correct me if im wrong here!!

My personal decision came down to portability and tone, and the shutte gives me everything i need and want. If i didnt like or want pedals though that would probably be a lot different!

[geoffbyrne]

[quote name='Salt on your Bass?' post='1107034' date='Jan 29 2011, 10:31 AM']If had had one criticism of the shuttle is that i dont get any drive out of it, or crunch . I run a very hot active 5, and i like my distortion crunch and overdrive.[/quote]

I get plenty from mine. With the Cirrus it starts to overdrive with the valve gain & the pre-amp output both at 12 o'clock and it progresses from there as you turn up the valve gain.

Have you considered changing the valve? The Ruby installed as stock isn't renown for its high quality. A decent brand ECC83 or [url="http://thetubestore.com/tesla12ax7.html"]this[/url] might work for you.

G.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='geoffbyrne' post='1107220' date='Jan 29 2011, 02:19 PM']I get plenty from mine. With the Cirrus it starts to overdrive with the valve gain & the pre-amp output both at 12 o'clock and it progresses from there as you turn up the valve gain.

Have you considered changing the valve? The Ruby installed as stock isn't renown for its high quality. A decent brand ECC83 or [url="http://thetubestore.com/tesla12ax7.html"]this[/url] might work for you.

G.[/quote]
That's exactly what I was thinking Geoff. 12 oclock is where I have mine usually and like you say it progresses from there. A few weeks ago we dropped Blur's Song2 in the set at the end and I had none of my drive pedals out so just put the gain to full and the volume right down then rotated it back to get my original stage volume back. Any more drive required than that I wouldn't expect any amp to produce just from a preamp valve and would use a pedal if it was needed.

[Salt on your Bass?]

Thanks guys ill give that whirl and see what happens! Does that tube simply break up more/earl
ier or does it change the pre tone altogether?

[geoffbyrne]

According to Agedhorse, the 6 was designed to 'not care' which particular valve was in there & really only uses it to provide that 'tube warmth'.

I've had the Ruby, an NOS Mallory ECC83 and a Jan Phillips 5751 in. Both the latter 2 sounded better than the former. Despite the 5751 having only 70% of the gain of the ECC83, they both performed pretty similarly as far as overdive was concerned.

I had a valve where half (one side) of it failed and this gave me lower output volume & no drive. A swap fixed that. Maybe you should try it.

G.

[JTUK]

I'd deffo go for EBS over GB... but only because I liked the overall feel and set-up over GB's.

Not had that much time on them to pull either apart so I go with my gut feeling here.