Bloc Riff Nut Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi guys, This may come across as a bit dumb, but I don't know how to cut 100Hz using the EQ of my Markbass CMD 102P. I cant make head or tail of the frequency graphs in the manual. I'm getting agro' from the bass drum when we play live and have heard that cutting around the 100Hz mark should help. Our next gig is before rehearsal and would like pointing in the right direction. Am I the only one who can't read these things. Your help woould be much appreciated. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 don't know about your amp, but bass response starts around 50hz. cut below that to let the kick breathe, and i would never cut around 100hz. in fact a little boost there is quite normal i think. you normally cut around 400hz to let the guitar through, boost around 6-800hz for your mids and cut around 1-2khz for the vocal space. could be your drummers kit needs retuning and dampening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 can't find a pic of the front panel. if you can post one so we know what we're looking at you'll get a better response i shouldn't wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1109978' date='Jan 31 2011, 08:00 PM']could be your drummers kit needs retuning and dampening.[/quote] This would be my first port of call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1109968' date='Jan 31 2011, 02:54 PM']I don't know how to cut 100Hz using the EQ of my Markbass CMD 102P.[/quote]Unless you have a graphic or parametric EQ you can't cut one frequency. Even with those you can only cut a band of frequencies centered at or near 100 Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Agree. But for the gig..set the amp flat and use the filters...and also get the gtr to roll off his bass and the kick to clean up his thump. Mostly, I'd expect them both to be in your freqs more than they should..typically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I'd go with the above advice. Our Guitards used to eq the hell out their gear & use octavers & I'd sometimes wonder if there was a point to playing down the worn end! Re-EQ'd the gits & the drummer already has a well tuned kick (punchy & no boom) allowing me to get those deep dubby sounds when I want without loads of mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1109978' date='Jan 31 2011, 08:00 PM']don't know about your amp, but bass response starts around 50hz. cut below that to let the kick breathe, and i would never cut around 100hz. in fact a little boost there is quite normal i think.[/quote] Indeed and this was the deciding factor for me buying a MB SA450 over a LMII (to start with). I find a slight boost at 100hz helps punch through. Phil. If your combo is based on the LMII then you cant cut 100hz directly. The low knob is centred around 40hz so in theory (and if im reading the graph correctly) you can get a cut at 100hz by -10db, but you would need to turn the low knob almost fully to the left and this would most freq's from around 900hz. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Short answer, you cant with that head. LMII has the following EQ/Filtering:- LOW center frequency: 40 Hz; level: ±16 dB LOW MID center frequency: 360 Hz, level: ±16 dB HIGH MID center frequency: 800 Hz, level: ±16 dB HIGH center frequency: 10 kHz, level: ±16 dB VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter) center frequency 380 Hz (cut) VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) frequency range 250 Hz-20 kHz (cut) But before you starting trying to get rid of 100HZ (very important for warmth and punchh it is) get rid of it in the kick drum. and guitars first. Really. I do this a lot with FOH in a big enough room, +3 or 4dB for the bass at 100HZ, -the same in the kick. Doesnt half help them 'gel' without the bass going all tubby.... If you had an sa450 you could have done what you wanted, assuming you can hear where 100Hz is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1109978' date='Jan 31 2011, 08:00 PM']don't know about your amp, but bass response starts around 50hz. cut below that to let the kick breathe, and i would never cut around 100hz. in fact a little boost there is quite normal i think. you normally cut around 400hz to let the guitar through, boost around 6-800hz for your mids and cut around 1-2khz for the vocal space. could be your drummers kit needs retuning and dampening.[/quote] my suggestion of a boost at around 6-800hz stems mainly from the problem of bass totally disappearing on small laptop speakers. this boost sorts that out quite well. any boost or cuts should generally be no more than a couple of db. apart from that 800 boost which can be up to 10db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) What kind of 'agro' is the OP talking about? If it's bass guitar inducing acoustic resonance in the kick drum then it's a very different situation to the kick drum being swamped by bass guitar or vice versa. Edited February 2, 2011 by LawrenceH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='LawrenceH' post='1111896' date='Feb 2 2011, 01:06 AM']What kind of 'agro' is the OP talking about? If it's bass guitar inducing acoustic resonance in the kick drum then it's a very different situation to the kick drum being swamped by bass guitar or vice versa.[/quote] Exactly! And an appropriately tuned and damped kick drum should not require the bass guitar to be EQ'd around it. Unfortunately most tend to be incorrectly tuned and heavily overdamped to compensate (which is why so many drummers need their kick micing in small venues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloc Riff Nut Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 OP here, The last time we played I had a really woolly/muddy sound. After talking to other musicians afterwards it was suggested to me that I could try- 1. cutting some bass fequencies from the guitars and 2, try to remove some frequencies around 100 hz as this would help with the kick drum. You guys all seem to disagreewith number 2(and I can't do that with my amp anyway) so I'll ignore that advice. Thanks for clearing it up. So I'll go with removing some bass from the guitars next time we play. What would be interesting to read would be how other bassists go about getting their live sound. What are the things to look out for eg. hollow stage = whatch out for too much low bass frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1112839' date='Feb 2 2011, 07:06 PM']OP here, The last time we played I had a really woolly/muddy sound. After talking to other musicians afterwards it was suggested to me that I could try- 1. cutting some bass fequencies from the guitars and 2, try to remove some frequencies around 100 hz as this would help with the kick drum. You guys all seem to disagreewith number 2(and I can't do that with my amp anyway) so I'll ignore that advice. Thanks for clearing it up. So I'll go with removing some bass from the guitars next time we play. What would be interesting to read would be how other bassists go about getting their live sound. What are the things to look out for eg. hollow stage = whatch out for too much low bass frequencies.[/quote] My first port of call in your situation would be the VLE/VLF filters on your Markbass amp. To start with make sure they're fully off, which means fully counterclockwise (NOT 12 noon like normal EQ controls, confusingly). If you've got too much of them on then they'll really wool up the sound. In general I always found doing sound that a bass guitar with plenty of mid/high frequencies in it, to the extent of sounding far too harsh in isolation, would come through in the mix very nicely. 'Wooliness is often around 250Hz in my experience, maybe a shade higher. A little cut of your low mid control could help sort this out, go too far and it'll sound thin. It is always good to get the guitars to cut their bass, guitarists hate it because it sounds thin in isolation but again, in the context of the whole mix it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) One of the big problems for bassists is that room acoustics vary so much. Generally we practice in small rooms and I tend to be well away from my amp and facing it. Then in gigs I'm in a larger room often facing the longest room dimension and due to lack of space I'm leaning almost against my stack with the sounding passing me at knee level. In the small room at home the lowest frequencies won't propagate because there wavelength is too long, in a long thin room the lowest frequencies resonate. Surrounding walls and low ceilings reflect the sound, reinforcing bass frequencies especially and also cause comb filter effects which suck out certain frequencies. I also hear a very different sound from the audience because higher frequencies are very directional and low frequencies are not. So it often sounds woollier to me than it does for the audience. Alex has written a lot about the directional qualities of speakers including an article in a recent Bass Player magazine, and LawrenceH is spot on about trying to separate instruments in their tone spectrum. I always expect to reset my EQ every time I set up in a new room and it is more about matching the room than about my tone per se. Almost always this is about trimming bass and boosting mids compared with my practice settings. If we don't have a sound engineer then I try to use a long lead to see what it sounds like out where the audience are. The other reason for mud is the vocal mikes picking everything up. If you can get sound levels on stage down even a little and put more through the pa it really helps clean up the sound. Edited February 3, 2011 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 [url="http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm[/url] The article about polar response (aka directionality) is the relevant one. I'd been wondering what to write about next - masking and 'frequency slotting' shall thus be the topic! Mixing a studio recording with your band can really help show the importance of leaving each other sonic space. One other thing - if your band is quite loud and your guitarists have had a lot of bottom in their sounds, then I'd expect your combo to struggle to produce enough clean lows. And once lows stop being clean they become boomy and then the midrange starts getting muddy. Get them to turn down their lows and everything will become better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 To answer another Q you had, hollow stages. I've had problems in the past with hollow stages & the best options are to try & keep the speakers disconnected from the stage. A Gramma Pad would be the obvious solution here (& I'm wanting one but skintos just now), but using things like a flight case or similar could help. If nothing's to hand then lose some lower frequencies & go for what would be a more mid sound without the stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' post='1113943' date='Feb 3 2011, 02:52 PM']To answer another Q you had, hollow stages. I've had problems in the past with hollow stages & the best options are to try & keep the speakers disconnected from the stage. A Gramma Pad would be the obvious solution here (& I'm wanting one but skintos just now), but using things like a flight case or similar could help. If nothing's to hand then lose some lower frequencies & go for what would be a more mid sound without the stage.[/quote] +1 I found a Gramma pad has really helped my social club gigs. They are all on hollow stages and have all benifited from me using the GP. Also helped by Alex C's freq/boundary chart he posted a few years ago. Now i have my amp right up against the back wall on the small stages, and a good 6-8ft from it on the larger ones. It all helps as my drummer has no idea about these things so it down to me to sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I take it the drummer has a floppy/flappy bass/kick drum and needs a serious retuning.Does the drummer use bottom skins on his toms ?.Could be a damping issue as well. 400 hz will let the drum breath and get the click of the beater and it will cut through. Get the bottom end off the guitars in isolation they will sound tinny but it,s the overall sound that counts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.