Rack Effects / MIDI advice please

[BTS_Spacebass]

Between my two guitarists and keys player they are setting up a midi system for setting off effects and midi backing plus click for the drummer. Subsequently I'm considering following suit and ditching the stomp boxes and getting a pro multi-effect unit. Ideally I'd like to be able to use 4/5 sounds at a time (lots of spacey noises).

I'm budgeting around 600 quid and would appreciate as many suggestions as possible.

Plus any advice on setting up midi to switch effects without the need for pedals would be appreciated as I'm sailing into completely unknown territory here.

Cheers

T

[LiamPodmore]

If i were you i would try and find a used Line 6 POD X3 Pro and the matching FBV foot controller (The biggest one is best.) That should put you under £600 and give you a good rack effects unit, even leaves you being able to add a seperate MIDI controlled unit in the effects loop of it if you so desire in the future.

Liam

Edited February 1, 2011 by LiamPodmore

[Kiwi]

Rack based effects are a mixed bag depending on how prescriptive you would like to be. If you have a fully scripted performance which involves the same songs in the same order then you can programme your patches in sequence and just one stomp between songs will take care of things. Alternatively if you do a lot of changes and play with a sequencer then you can set up each patch and have the sequencer programmed to change it for you but you'll need a few dress rehearsals to soundcheck the patch gain levels and eq. Alternatively a number of more recent rack effects like the TC Electronic G-Major and the Lexicon MPXG2 will allow you to create 'rigs', which means to say a patch with multiple effects that you can switch in and out independently of one another, plus specialist patches.

I have a mix of both on my MPXG2 with a 'rig' for each bass.

You can also purchase software for your laptop that has more processing power than most multi effects units. Take a look at Native Instruments Guitar Rig Kontrol for example. If you have in ear monitors you won't need to take an amp. Just the IEM unit, laptop and USB foot controller. It can be MIDI automated as well.

[DanOwens]

I use a Line 6 M13 which allows patch changes to be received via MIDI but although I have extensive experience of using MIDI live, I've only dabbled with full-band automation in rehearsal. As such, I don't have a thorough knowledge of the processors available but to be honest, the decider with this should not be 'what can do MIDI?' as most top-end gear can; the question should be 'Which processor do I prefer?'. This is down to GUI, sound and a matter of personal taste.

As CK's already alluded to, how you work this as a band will dictate the decisions you make regarding switching. If you're running a sequencer and feeding a constant stream of MIDI clock to everyone's gear via daisy chain then you need to make sure that everyone is on separate MIDI channels, that way you won't get crosstalk between your's and your guitarists' gear. Otherwise, you'd need a MIDI breakout box such as the M-Audio Midisport 4x4 [url="http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MIDISPORT4x4AnniversaryEdition.html"]HERE[/url] and set each output to each player. Secondly you need to get all the RNPN/RPN tables for your gear (sometimes called MIDI Implementation Chart).

You essentially then decide what you want to do, find the MIDI message that does it then program it into the sequencer at the appropriate bar. Doing this, your drummer will need to be on in-ears (I recommend the discontinued Yamaha Clickstation as it can sync to a MIDI Clock source). If you set up tempo changes too, and rehearse your set to include appropriately-long breaks then no-one will have to think about it. The obvious problems, however are your sequencer crashing or wanting to re-start a song.

The other option is for someone to trigger the MIDI messages. To do this properly, you're still going to need a computer as you need to send multiple MIDI CC messages and as far as I'm aware, neither the Behringer FCB1010, the Roland FC-300 or the Yamaha FC900 allow multiple messages to be sent; as such, you'd need to send one message with the floor controller which would trigger multiple messages from the computer to the devices.

If you don't know much about MIDI, it's fairly simple to understand and very necessary if you intend to do this properly (although it could be someone else in the band, not you particularly).

If you've any more questions, there's some great knowledge here.

Dan

Edited February 1, 2011 by DanOwens

[BTS_Spacebass]

Nice one guys, this has given me much food for thought. I've been horrendously ill since posting this and this is the first evening i can stand to look at a screen for more than 5mins. Some serious window shopping and research to do now

T

[BTS_Spacebass]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1111235' date='Feb 1 2011, 04:45 PM']As CK's already alluded to, how you work this as a band will dictate the decisions you make regarding switching. If you're running a sequencer and feeding a constant stream of MIDI clock to everyone's gear via daisy chain then you need to make sure that everyone is on separate MIDI channels, that way you won't get crosstalk between your's and your guitarists' gear. Otherwise, you'd need a MIDI breakout box such as the M-Audio Midisport 4x4 [url="http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MIDISPORT4x4AnniversaryEdition.html"]HERE[/url] and set each output to each player. Secondly you need to get all the RNPN/RPN tables for your gear (sometimes called MIDI Implementation Chart).[/quote]

I think this is the way we are planning to do this. That info is well helpful. cheers again

T