flyfisher Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Fair point, though I only mentioned the BNP as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' post='1111448' date='Feb 1 2011, 06:56 PM']Why do we keep getting these questions? They are always asked by hobbyists about professional playing situations and include typically unrealistic views. Do you hobbyists go to work at any time not liking the journey/boss/co-workers/job/office/clients? I bet you do. Have you lot no integrity? Ah, hold on, I've got to go, Gary's on the phone about a gig.[/quote] Not everyone is either a hobbyist or a pro. As a semi pro, I often find myself stuck somewhere between the two. I've done gigs with hobby players and had to grit my teeth through some awful drummers and sloppy guitarists. Somtimes, I'll admit, I get nothing out of these gigs musically speaking. Often, I get very little out of them financially, but I was out on a stage playing rather than sitting at home and I may have played a town/venue I haven't played before - this means something to me, it wouldn't to all. I've also done enjoyable gigs with hobby players where the fun aspect takes over from any gripes about playing ability. I could just as easily be gigging with pros and enjoy the challenge of staying at the top of my game on these gigs. Pro players have told me that the only difference between them and me (meaning any good semi pro) is that they happened to be in the right place at the right time on various occasions. Let's face it, not everyone can be. So perhaps another aspect to the integrity question is: would you gig with inferior musicians for little money, just to play? As I said, I have done, but I do draw the line somewhere. Edited February 1, 2011 by arthurhenry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1111448' date='Feb 1 2011, 06:56 PM']Why do we keep getting these questions? They are always asked by hobbyists about professional playing situations and include typically unrealistic views. Do you hobbyists go to work at any time not liking the journey/boss/co-workers/job/office/clients? I bet you do. Have you lot no integrity? Ah, hold on, I've got to go, Gary's on the phone about a gig.[/quote] But, music is something that people can be enthused by, be creative, indulged in and enjoy, hence it can be a hobby, as well as make a living out of it. I've yet to meet someone that lists stuffing envelopes through letterboxes as their hobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 ha ha...I once did a gig sponsored/laid on by the Greek communist party. They had quite a budget to infuence the youth and the speeches/rants etc took 2 hrs on the stage. Our violin got so pissed during that time and put on quite a show that night with his antics.... Still makes me laugh even though he sadly passed away a while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRockinRoadie Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 About 3 years ago I played in a 'young originals band', playing a sort of punk/indie mix with a ska edge? It wasnt really my thing at all, but I learnt alot from it, and had a good laugh. Since then, I havent played in any originals bands at all, it put me off for life! At least playing covers I cover my petrol costs! In the past I've done the odd bit of session work, most of it not being my first choice of genre, but it has opened up my eyes to how the bass player 'fits' with other genres of music. I've picked up techniques and fills from songs I wouldnt have known existed otherwise. I suppose at the end of the day, you're always on a constant learning curve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1111448' date='Feb 1 2011, 06:56 PM']Do you hobbyists go to work at any time not liking the journey/boss/co-workers/job/office/clients? I bet you do.[/quote] I think this is a very fair point. I'm sure all of us have at one point. Harrison Ford may get to cherry pick his roles but the average actor will take what is going. It's interesting the examples of working with convicted sex offenders and extreme political bands. It's not really something that comes up that much & the reality is musicians have to eat. It's interesting reading the Motown house bands comments on those legendary sessions. They were Jazz players after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Hobbyists is a horrible condescending term I think? There are lots and I mean lots of top notch musicians out there that just happen to earn a living doing something else, Many enthusiastic players spend as many hours as a pro playing live writing rehearsing etc. Some of these hobbyists are in a position where they don't need to work at all which also doesn't make them bad players. Rant over but there's a definite whiff of all pro's being better than all hobbyists which is not true at all. I'm not going to worry the likes of Doddy but I'm sure there are many pro players in popular bands I could outplay for example. Edited February 1, 2011 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I would take the money, doesn't mean I'll be able to play like anything except me though. Would be pretty funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This may be an underlying sentiment. I know plenty of quality players...or I think they are quality..who really really scratch around to make £30k p.a. But the fact they they are willing to do this means nothing in itself. You make the choice to earn what you can in whatever field but just because someone devotes all their time to music, it is just a choice..it has no relevance to how good or bad they may be. It helps your chances to be be useful, but plenty aren't. The real decision..in my mind... is to think through what you want to achieve and how best to go about it. Do you stand a chance to provide a better standard of living working 9-5 for 40 years with a pension and garaunteed salary year in year out ...ha ha... or do you take your chance doing your lifes dream? The only way to answer this question is to tot up what you have after a good few years and ask yourself if you are satisfied. You might then find that your school mate who plodded along with the council for eons ends up far better offf... or you might think not think that. He is likely to have grossed half a mill in wages over 20 plus years... and that is some tough act for a muso to do. I can count on two hands the amount of players I know who have had a chance of that... and I know a lot of players, I think. It isn't always as glamourous as you might think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='benh' post='1110966' date='Feb 1 2011, 05:41 AM']Unless, of course, you're someone like Victor Wooten, who I can't imagine standing in for a session with a death metal band although I'm sure he'd do it quite well![/quote] Victor sells magic power cords, he'd take the gig if the money was good. Oddly enough his buddy Steve Bailey was one of the main ghost players on many hair metal bands records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Marvin' post='1111080' date='Feb 1 2011, 06:50 AM']If I were a pro? Still no. I'm someone who despite loving Shredded Wheat, won't eat them because they're made by Nestle and I don't like some of what Nestle get up to. My morals and principles come before cash. I'd probably look to get a different job if it meant playing for people I disliked.[/quote] Can you imagine what kind of world it would be if everyone thought like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1111092' date='Feb 1 2011, 07:02 AM']But what about if you have to deliver BNP (or whoever)promo material? Would you flat out refuse to deliver it,or just get on with it and do your job?[/quote] In the US a number of religious hardliners have refused to do their job on religious grounds. Usually not providing medical help for those they call sinners. Some notable cases are pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for things they don't approve of. While I fully support their right to be extremists I think they need to quit their job instead of trying to get laws passed supporting their beliefs and giving them special powers over other people. That would be integrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='teej' post='1111102' date='Feb 1 2011, 07:10 AM']Being professional doesn't mean a lowering of standards, now does it?[/quote] I think it does, that's why you get money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Conan' post='1111168' date='Feb 1 2011, 07:51 AM']Cool! Page two and we're almost on to Nazis already!![/quote] Nazis? Rubbish, Now a shark would have found Anne Frank like that (snaps fingers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Dropzone' post='1111314' date='Feb 1 2011, 09:29 AM']OK I'll take the bait For a million pounds I would let Gary Glitter play with me!!![/quote] For a little while I would get some good gigs as an entertainer that would pay 4 figures in a day. My joke was always once you get to a 4 figure day rate the job description is irrelevant, I'll be there. I think one problem with this threads question is it is asking for a black and white answer. A better question may be how much does integrity play into your decision. I'm sure we can all come up with hypothetical examples of gigs we wouldn't play so I don't think any of us would play absolutely any gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1111396' date='Feb 1 2011, 10:21 AM'](Gary Glitter got mentioned, I'd never play with a convicted paedophile)[/quote] My friend had an offer to play for the pope, he took the gig but we did discuss the morality of playing for someone who has personally encouraged & helped pedophiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'd feel more integrity doing what I love in a band I didn't than working a desk job pushing paper when I could be playing music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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