Advice needed in Ebay dispute

[Macko1968]

On the flip side of the coin.

I sold an iPhone 4 on eBay. Buyer received the phone & emailed me to say how pleased he was with it, "exactly as described". Four weeks later he files a claim for item not as described, says he can't get a good signal & the phone rattles when he shakes it.

I provide paypal with a copy of his email saying how pleased he was & point them to the positive feedback he left. I lost the case & was forced to refund. What was returned was a knackered iPhone with dents that were clearly not there in the auction pics. Paypal didnt want to know & refunded £420 from my account.

I ended up filing a case with the Financial Services Ombudsman to get my money back.

By eBays own admission they settle in favour of the buyer in the majority of cases.

[bumnote]

[quote name='Macko1968' post='1114572' date='Feb 3 2011, 09:37 PM']I ended up filing a case with the Financial Services Ombudsman to get my money back.[/quote]

Im sure they often get things wrong, the fact you got your money from the ombusman would point to that.

If anything, I would have expected pay pal to lean towards the seller to make sure they get their fees.

Anyway, to the OP I hope you get it sorted without too much hassle. Ive learnt the hard way to make sure I check double and triple check the listing, and keep the photographs. Last time I sold an amp I even took a video to show all the controls working and no hum etc.
It takes a bit of extra time but can save loads of heartache in the end

[BottomE]

[quote name='bumnote' post='1114603' date='Feb 3 2011, 09:54 PM']Im sure they often get things wrong, the fact you got your money from the ombusman would point to that.

If anything, I would have expected pay pal to lean towards the seller to make sure they get their fees.

Anyway, to the OP I hope you get it sorted without too much hassle. Ive learnt the hard way to make sure I check double and triple check the listing, and keep the photographs. Last time I sold an amp I even took a video to show all the controls working and no hum etc.
It takes a bit of extra time but can save loads of heartache in the end[/quote]
Thanks for your opinions. Its difficult to see both sides of this issue being so close to it. The hardest thing to swallow is the implication that you have cheated someone out of something.

When i buy a bass i will only get it a decent case if it is a keeper - if not its usually sold in the case that it came in which is normally adequate. I can understand that people might have a different view on this but when (and i have) received a bass in a rough old case it does not bother me. Its the bass that i am interested in.

[bigthumb]

[quote name='Macko1968' post='1114572' date='Feb 3 2011, 09:37 PM']On the flip side of the coin.

I sold an iPhone 4 on eBay. Buyer received the phone & emailed me to say how pleased he was with it, "exactly as described". Four weeks later he files a claim for item not as described, says he can't get a good signal & the phone rattles when he shakes it.

I provide paypal with a copy of his email saying how pleased he was & point them to the positive feedback he left. I lost the case & was forced to refund. What was returned was a knackered iPhone with dents that were clearly not there in the auction pics. Paypal didnt want to know & refunded £420 from my account.

I ended up filing a case with the Financial Services Ombudsman to get my money back.

By eBays own admission they settle in favour of the buyer in the majority of cases.[/quote]

That is shocking! Did you get your money back?

[4-string-thing]

Ebay is full of people who will try it on to save a few quid or rip you off.

I sold a Squier Tele on there a couple of years ago, it was in "as new condition" ie, in the condition that it had been in when I bought it from the shop. Virtually unplayed. It was a £240 Fat Tele, the one with the humbucker near the neck. It needed new strings, but this was stated in my listing.

He won it for £105, and to make sure he got it ok, I delivered in person (round trip 340 miles) I arrived at his house, he kept me on the door step while he inspected the guitar for all of 15 seconds "that looks fine" says he and off I go.

When I got home, some 4 hours later, he has sent me a message saying the guitar is terrible, needs a set up and the pots/selector switch need replacing cos they crackle. The guitar is a birthday present for his son who is very distraught. If I was however, to refund him £20 to pay for a set up, he wouldn't leave me negative feedback!

I called his bluff and told him that ebay might take a dim view of him trying to blackmail me and that I suspected he was a guitar dealer (he'd bought and sold two or three guitars in just over a month)

Needless to say my tele was back on ebay a few days later being described as "a brilliant, wonderful guitar in excellent "as new" condition, bought for his son, who had now decided he liked strats instead. Same guitar, same condition, just a much longer, more descriptive listing. He sold it for £5 more than he paid me for it and he received wonderful feedback from the buyer.... So, the guitar that he wasn't happy with turned out to be fine after all. I wonder how many guitars he has bought in the 2 years since? And how much money he has claimed back from his sellers by threatening them with negative feedback?

To the OP.....You offered a case, he got a case, tell the guy to swivel.

[LawrenceH]

I think in this instance you will be ok but in honesty I do feel a bit of sympathy towards the buyer - I don't think you can assume that just because you have a particular attitude to buying cases or whatever that a buyer will have the same assuptions and tacit understanding, since you haven't mentioned it in the ad. I'd certainly feel a bit miffed if I bought a bass with a case, and then it came in one that was in significantly worse condition than the bass, unless the advert made this fact clear.

In the end, was the bass sold at a fair price for the bass alone? If so it seems fair to me - but a half-decent case adds at least £15 to the value of a bass, after all, and I certainly factor it in when bidding/buying.

[gjones]

I've bought a couple of basses off ebay which both came with a case. But frankly I didn't care what condition the cases were in as they were only a means to protect the basses.

Maybe it was the case he really wanted and was planning to throw the bass away when it arrived?

There's nought a queer as folk!

[franzbassist]

I wonder how much feedback influences the eBay teams when a dispute opens up? I have over 500 positive feedbacks and am rated 4.9 out of 5 for the accuracy of my item descriptions, so I hope they'd cut me some slack!

Regarding the OP, I always put a few words to describe the case when selling an instrument on eBay. Usually phrasing the sentence "This bass also comes with..." to suggest that the bass is the main auction item and the case secondary. For example, the Ken Smith Burner I finally sold on here recently had a case that I described both here on BC and eBay as "worn but fully functional".

I hope you get it sorted.

Cheers

Gareth

[bumnote]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1114631' date='Feb 3 2011, 10:19 PM']Thanks for your opinions. Its difficult to see both sides of this issue being so close to it. The hardest thing to swallow is the implication that you have cheated someone out of something.

When i buy a bass i will only get it a decent case if it is a keeper - if not its usually sold in the case that it came in which is normally adequate. I can understand that people might have a different view on this but when (and i have) received a bass in a rough old case it does not bother me. Its the bass that i am interested in.[/quote]

Please dont think i was having a go I certainly wasnt, there but for the grace of God etc, Neither would I agree you have tried to cheat someone.

What you have come across someone with different expectations to your own, or he is trying it on, or whatever. Buying something on mail order is about the only thing we ever do, without actually looking at the item before parting withour cash.

The Ebay definition of used goods is
An item that has been previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or an item that has been returned to the seller after a period of use. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

So ebay put the onus on you to properly describe the item, and I would bet that your buyer would have still bought the item if you had described it as coming with a scruffy case.
With any future listings you need to cover your arse and describe everything as well as possible to avoid this situation again.

Again I havent seen the listing, and I dont know the condition of the case, but if it was functional but scruffy I would think you have complied with the listing.

I have about 1500 odd ebay trades under several different names and all with a 100% feedback, although that obviously includes my buys.

It obviously depends on what you want to do but what I would do in your case is to let the guy go through the paypal procedure, and if you are in the position to do so if you lose, get the bass returned and relist it
That will mesan you are out of pocket the cost you paid to ship it in the first place.

Alternatively, you could offer say £20 discount against repairs to the case.

What you shouldnt do is expect to pay for a new one,

Good Luck

[tauzero]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1113719' date='Feb 3 2011, 12:16 PM']The listing said that "the bass will be shipped in a hard case."

That is the only mention of the case in the listing.[/quote]
Did you offer local collection? Just thinking that if you did, that demonstrates that the case isn't implicitly part of the auction, it's only to describe the packaging method for posting. If the dispute is "item not as described", it's difficult to see how he's got a leg to stand on, as the item was the bass and the description of the item (as opposed to the description of the shipping container) didn't include the case.

As the auction was for a used item, the buyer surely cannot justify asking for a new case - if it were explicitly part of the auction and not explicitly described, then it should conform to the definition of a used item.

[Ou7shined]

Could we see the listing, so we may draw our own conclusions of the exact wording in context?

[BottomE]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1115086' date='Feb 4 2011, 11:23 AM']Could we see the listing, so we may draw our own conclusions of the exact wording in context?[/quote]
Yes, for sure. I can't access Ebay from work but will try to remember to do this tonight.

[walplayer]

i had a guy in spain try this kind of thing ,sold him a very nice bass and he started saying the case was faulty ,then started saying the bass was faulty then tried to claim £500 off me. It went to a dispute and i offered him a full refund on it (though stated that wasn't any kind of admission of fault) he never returned it surprise surprise.

[walplayer]

[quote name='walbassist' post='1114869' date='Feb 4 2011, 07:29 AM']I wonder how much feedback influences the eBay teams when a dispute opens up? I have over 500 positive feedbacks and am rated 4.9 out of 5 for the accuracy of my item descriptions, so I hope they'd cut me some slack!

Regarding the OP, I always put a few words to describe the case when selling an instrument on eBay. Usually phrasing the sentence "This bass also comes with..." to suggest that the bass is the main auction item and the case secondary. For example, the Ken Smith Burner I finally sold on here recently had a case that I described both here on BC and eBay as "worn but fully functional".

I hope you get it sorted.

Cheers

Gareth[/quote]

It doesn't affect it Gareth,i pretty much won my dispute ,but the guy was still able to leave me bad feedback. When i asked for it to be removed ebay said they couldn't even though i'd won it . So i had my feedback at something like only 94% positive ,but only for 12 months .
The best thing is to let it go to dispute and offer a full refund at last minute ,ebay will them they have to send it back at their own cost .

Edited February 4, 2011 by walplayer

[BottomE]

Heres the link:
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130476083250&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT"]Ebay item [/url]

[tarcher]

Well,it looks like a very nice case,so what was his problem?

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='tarcher' post='1115938' date='Feb 4 2011, 10:01 PM']Well,it looks like a very nice case,so what was his problem?[/quote]


Yeah, nowt wrong with that - i'd be happy with it.

[tarcher]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1113719' date='Feb 3 2011, 12:16 PM']The listing said that "the bass will be shipped in a hard case."

That is the only mention of the case in the listing.[/quote]


You said in your listing the bass comes in ITS case which will be included.
Your photo shows a really nice case which implies that is the case it s coming in.
If however you shipped it out in an adequate but dog of a case then I would side with the buyer and its understandable that he's a tad miffed and expecting some financial recompense or the case it was implied the bass would be shipped in.

[BottomE]

[quote name='tarcher' post='1116179' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:19 AM']You said in your listing the bass comes in ITS case which will be included.
Your photo shows a really nice case which implies that is the case it s coming in.
If however you shipped it out in an adequate but dog of a case then I would side with the buyer and its understandable that he's a tad miffed and expecting some financial recompense or the case it was implied the bass would be shipped in.[/quote]
The one in the pic is the one it was shipped in.

[tarcher]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1116228' date='Feb 5 2011, 09:21 AM']The one in the pic is the one it was shipped in.[/quote]

If thats the case then you really shouldn't have any problems.
Item supplied exactly as described and at a good price too.
If I was the buyer I would be more than happy.
Shame about the hassle.
Hope it gets resolved without tears.
Does seem as though he's trying it on.

[bumnote]

What does he say is wrong with the case?
You have sent him a picture
Bo the latches work?
If they do theres nothing wrong with it and you should stick to your guns

[BottomE]

[quote name='bumnote' post='1116381' date='Feb 5 2011, 11:44 AM']What does he say is wrong with the case?
You have sent him a picture
Bo the latches work?
If they do theres nothing wrong with it and you should stick to your guns[/quote]

The case was/is all working. He hasn't been able to articulate his problem really - just stuff like "Its ruined the whole thing" and "I paid a premium delivery rate". I am sticking to my guns but have been left feeling really bitter about it. At one point he said something about buying a £60 bass which made me think he might be a basschatter - perhaps someone on the Sue Ryder bass thread? If so, can he/she please man (or woman) up and leave a comment on this thread?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1116584' date='Feb 5 2011, 02:45 PM']The case was/is all working. He hasn't been able to articulate his problem really[/quote]
He seems to be trying it on, then. Stick to your guns, and hope eBay / PayPal listen to your side of the story.

[bumnote]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1116584' date='Feb 5 2011, 02:45 PM']The case was/is all working. He hasn't been able to articulate his problem really - just stuff like "Its ruined the whole thing" and "I paid a premium delivery rate". I am sticking to my guns but have been left feeling really bitter about it. At one point he said something about buying a £60 bass which made me think he might be a basschatter - perhaps someone on the Sue Ryder bass thread? If so, can he/she please man (or woman) up and leave a comment on this thread?[/quote]


I think this also dispells the idea you put forward that in some way you had cheated. You havent, and looking at it impartially from both sides i reckon you have nothing to worry about, and appear to have behaved in an proper fashion

Good on you and stick up for your self

[tarcher]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1116790' date='Feb 5 2011, 06:15 PM'][url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=121781&st=0&#entry1116783"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...p;#entry1116783[/url][/quote]


I think if I was buying said bass and it turned up like that I'd be a tad miffed.
The implicationn in the ad was that the bass was part of the deal.
If the purpose of the case was just for shipping it should have been made clear in the ad.
Sorry if i what I'm saying may not be what you want to hear but you did ask for opinions and thats mine.
In my opinion thats a pretty irresponsible bit of packing.
Live and learn as they say,you'll know better next time.
I'd pay up and grin and bear it.