Robin UK Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hey guys, I know the car question must get asked alot, but i'm looking at specifically 4x4's. I know you can fit a double in virtually any car if you really want to (I know i've had one in a ford Ka etc.), however i may be on the look out for some new transportation, and i need a vehicle that is both a 4x4 (proper, not an estate with 4 wheel drive that can't really go offroad etc.) for my work, and that can fit a double bass in the BACK of the car (ie not protruding over/through the front seats). I currently drive a VW transporter, so have the luxury of a lot of space, however it is becoming too expensive to run and my work nwo requires me to drive offroad from time to time (which is hell in a FF van). I am willing to concede that i'm not going to find something as ideal as the transporter in this format (as in still feeling relatively like a car and being practical for parking etc.), so i'm thinking of getting a trailer for when the full PA/lighting rig comes out, however i don't want to have to take a trailer, or forsake (my always occupied) front seats everytime i've got a quartet jazz gig. So does anyone have much experince getting a double in the back of a 4x4? Does a Defender van fit one? or any kind of discovery? or pickup? Thanks for any contributions in advance, Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Odd though it may seem for a large off road vehicle, my Nissan X-Trail has no greater load carrying capacity than my old Focus Estate or my wife's Pug 307 Est. So I would imagine that you'd need a really long wheel base 4x4 to accomplish fitting a DB in the back without it poking through between seats (sorry I have no DB to test that but I've a fair idea that it couldn't fit in my X-Trail). I wouldn't dismiss the Subaru Forester as an Est car with 4x4 capabilities; I had one and it is a very able off/soft-roader with the added benefit of Hi/Lo ratio box... though again you'd not fit the DB without it poking between the front seats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) there is only one 4x4. (rally cars excepted) it's a landrover. all the others are chelsea tractors for ponces. the bmw and porsche ones make me physically ill. p.s. don't get me started on range-rover-blinghead-scum-f***ers.. Edited February 3, 2011 by phil.i.stein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'd second the landrover comment. my mate has one (not sure why) and he can fit four of us down both benches in the back, so by that logic it must surely accomodate a DB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 No longer made, but our Nissan Terrano has done a terrific job for us for a while now. I can fit two PA subs and all the gear in my sig in it no problem, plus it has had no trouble getting up and down the snowbound single track hill we live on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If its going to be a full off road 4x4 then Defender 110 is the business. We enjoyed our 3 Land Rovers, great fun and smile factor. Nowadays we do 25,000 miles a year in Honda CRVs, tow 1 1/2 Tonnes regularly, get 33mpg towing, change them each year with minimal loss - way cheaper than leasing. Ultra reliable, all mod cons but you have to be careful with interior. Faults - well the boot lid on the current one does not close as well as the others, must mention it sometime, do NOT buy red non metallic - warning - soft paint, show it a stone and it chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblin Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 VW Transporter Syncro? Almost unbeatable off road, especially the T25 Syncro 16! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 My Dad has a Land Rover & I borrowed it once to take my upright to a gig in London. From memory the headstock wasn't in the way as such but was between the two seats & blocked my view of Jim my guitarist (no major loss!) It didn't affect visability or the handbreak. That said I am sure I could have loaded up better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK Jale Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Ever thought of a Mitsubishi Delica? Tonka toy grey import 4x4 mini MPV, space for a DB, 2.8td lump, auto, all the toys. Quite capable offroad - a mate has one for his savage Spanish track. Parts and fuel are no fun, but remarkably cheap to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin UK Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. Does the syncro have a low range gear box? I'm tempted by one, but selling my current T4 as it's fairly high maintenance (partly due to high mileage), so not sure if the syncro is for me. I was looking at the van/long wheelbase Defender 110, but didn't know if it was long enough in the back. Also not sure how well instruments will travel, as i hear they're not known for their airtighness (couldn't think of the right word), or security for that matter. Just to make things difficult i also spend alot of time driving around the country for work (been from southampton to dundee twice in the last 2 weeks), so an ok fuel effiiciency would be nice. Will have a look at the nissan and mitsubishi offers, sadly i don't think keeping vehicles like the CRV in great interior condition for resale will work well for me, not sur eif i could afford one in the first place. Does anyone have a defender lwb that they could measure the back length for me? Thanks again for the advice guys, keep it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misrule Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I don't know about DBs -- but I recently looked at 4x4s and it came down to this. You either have a proper 4x4 and not a great deal of load space, or lots of space and less of the 4x4. The Land Rover Discovery seven-seater has a fair bit of space with two seats down -- and three-way-split middle seats to allow for the headstock. It's widely respected but has a lot less space than an estate car while it weighs in at two tonnes and drinks fuel. And it has an annoying split tailgate that means you have to lift stuff over a stuck out lower lip. The best load space I could find was in the Audi Q7, which has an easy tailgate and a fancy system to lower the suspension when you're piling stuff in. However, it's tank-like, expensive to buy and run while the "4x4" is a Haldex system that shunts power around where it's needed (so not a real 4x4). I came to the conclusion I'd be better off with a van. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Currently owning (rather than talking about) a 'proper' 4x4 and having owned several others and access to countless different types I would conclude this:- If your only concern is to be able to use it off road properly then the Land rover option is pretty sound - However and this is a big however Landies do have draw backs in real every day use (yes I have owned them, and driven them a lot) They are noisy and cold. If you can ever get one to go fast enough on a road to worry about handling, they handle like a pig. Dont ever take a first date in one if you want to take her on a second date. Actually dont ever take a date in one. Unless you've washed and polished it so you can see yourself in the paintwork - dont go anywhere posh in it if you want to go there twice. Unless you have a perfect back and posture, you will walk like you've been riding a stallion bareback across ploughed fields if you drive it for any length of time. After a period of time you will be able to sport a full beard, smoke a pipe, wear a flat cap and silk waistcoat whilst waxing lyrical in a CAMRA pub about how 'brill' Landies are. What do I own? A Jeep. They are a great compromise between a vehicle you can use on a daily basis, and one that will go properly off road and not get stuck. Also you can go out in your DJ in it and not look a tw4t! They are quiet, warm and comfortable on the road and very capable off it, and very reliable. If you cant stomach buying an American vehicle - then Toyota Land cruiser or Rav 4. My ex has one of the last Nissan Terranos (3.0l diesel) which is excellent but tyres can be a problem as it has ridiculous 17" rims and only 1 company makes an A/T tyre for that size. Steer clear of anything else with 'rover' in the name (ie, discovery, freelander, range rover) unless you want to spend as much sorting out niggling problems (some major) as you do using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender73 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I had an X-Trail for a while and found it very spacious, although never tried a DB in it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender73 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'd avoid a Jimny too....great car, but you may need to take up the violin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin UK Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Another thanks for the advise guys. I'm going to try and check out the forester, and the jeep options, although i'm getting mighty tempted by looking for a syncro, althoguh i might jsut be swapping one problem for another (depending whether it's my particular van that is ebign expensive to run etc., all transporters, or the way i treat it). Just to clarify i'm basically looking for something with ~6' between the back of the front seats and the boot (and no, i'm not actually cutting costs by trying to live in my car ). Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Rob, I'm sorry I forget the Forester. Very good car and I have been tempted myself - although economics have meant that I'll keep this Jeep (or actually get a similar age Wrangler) rather than a new Subaru - however if you can afford one of the newer ones (diesel boxer) they are very good on road and the best of the modern crop of Jap soft roaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I think you're going to struggle. I have an A6 Avant and a 3/4 size bass will fit longwise behind the front seats without the headstock protruding through the gap between the seats: but the A6 Avant is a very long loadspace and most 4x4s won't be as long. The 110 will, but the kindest thing you can say about it is that it's compromised on-road even if it's better off-road. It would just about fit in the RR Classic I used to own if you put it across the diagonals. By the way, that had a viscous coupling similar to the Haldex system derided by misrule, and the off-road performance didn't suffer noticeably: only the guys with arb lockers front and rear got much further before they got stuck (and they used to change half-shafts like everyone else filled up thier windscreen washer bottles :-) As far as the T4 synchro goes, it's a complicated system which will use more fuel than the 2wd system, but it's a lot newer than the type 25 so there are fewer aftermarket parts. I gather that most are fitted with a rear difflock and they have a crawler gear in addition to the normal gear ratios but I can't confirm that. I also hear that the front axles are liable to expensive problems which can be fixed by pulling the half-shafts: so if you do go and look at one make sure it's all intact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblin Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='pete.young' post='1120698' date='Feb 8 2011, 09:55 PM']As far as the T4 synchro goes, it's a complicated system which will use more fuel than the 2wd system, but it's a lot newer than the type 25 so there are fewer aftermarket parts. I gather that most are fitted with a rear difflock and they have a crawler gear in addition to the normal gear ratios but I can't confirm that. I also hear that the front axles are liable to expensive problems which can be fixed by pulling the half-shafts: so if you do go and look at one make sure it's all intact![/quote] Yeah the Syncros (not Synchro - common mistake ) are very complex, but off road they're miles better than a Defender, but more civilised on the road. And I don't get where you're coming from with the aftermarket parts, because the T25 / T3 Syncros were still done by VW, so it's not a fully aftermarket system. As for the difflocks and crawlers, there's so many combinations it's hard to tell what is and isn't standard option, and there's also the Syncro 16 which is basically higher suspension and 16" wheels instead of 14" wheels. Axle wise - yeah problems can occur if they've not been looked after properly and axles have been known to go missing, but that's common on a lot of viscous coupling 4wd systems. However yeah, make sure it's intact There's always the option of the T5 4motion too Expensive though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aonindy Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 If its lay-down length you are after... I had a Terrano II (two of them, one after the other), long wheel base would take 6' in the back from rear door to back of passenger seat - used the thing over very rough terrain and through floods etc, and solid as the proverbial.... did have a tendancy to *drink* fuel though! ... now back to a hatchback laguna, 1 x seat down and the DB fits in very nicely with no fighting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
270degrees Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Could you not throw your DB on the roof of whatever you wanna buy? It'd give you more options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblin Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I can't imagine a DB on the roof of my VW Polo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 [quote name='goblin' post='1120745' date='Feb 8 2011, 10:23 PM']Yeah the Syncros (not Synchro - common mistake ) are very complex, but off road they're miles better than a Defender, but more civilised on the road. And I don't get where you're coming from with the aftermarket parts, because the T25 / T3 Syncros were still done by VW, so it's not a fully aftermarket system.[/quote] The point was that you're stuck with paying full price for manufacturer's spares because there are fewer pattern parts, and T4s are still new enough that not many have been broken. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the off-road performance is anything like a Defender though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 [quote name='goblin' post='1120894' date='Feb 9 2011, 02:20 AM']I can't imagine a DB on the roof of my VW Polo [/quote] Why not? I used to carry mine on the roof of my Austin A30 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Pete, I'd add (not turning this into a vehicle thread ) that its all a bit relative when you get into vehicles with proper diff locks and not ooper dooper pretend Jap things. Tyres become the big players once the difflocks are on. for example I have pulled a Landy out of mud that my Jeep didn't get stuck in because the landy had silly road tyres on and mine had A/Ts. Therefore it could be argued that a Syncros if it had sufficient power to keep up with the Landy/Jeep in serious stuff then it could well come down to which one had the most suitable tyres for the terrain. As to being miles better than a Defender....... the only thing MILES better than a Defender off road is a Steyr Pinzgauer or any MBT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin UK Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Thanks again for the input guys. Firstly, i'm not going to put my double on th eroof of anything (let alone anythign that goes over 30mph). Call me squeemish, but defiantely not! I'm pretty much sure i'm going to try and get hold of a T4 syncro, just trying to ascertain how much worse i can expect the fuel consumption to be. I currently get upto 36mpg out of my current transporter. I'll let you know how the search goes, Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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