Watch out, Fraud warning!

[Knork]

Board admin may place this topic elsewhere, I think it's best here though what happened is not ebay related.

I write this now as a warning because it almost happened to me this very month. I have subscribed to a few bass-boards around mid-January because I needed tips. Soon I got a shady offer per email so maybe some of you in one of these boards got it as well. The sender was a keith_powell-at-yahoo.com though it might be a group of people using different mail adresses.

This person wanted to buy a bass from me. I did put out a few ads but it was never clear which bass he actually wanted. I told him about the prices and conditions but he never really answered to these details. He also never gave me his adress, even when I insisted, but told me he's got his own transport agency and therefore employees that would pick it up at my place. Soon enough I called the deal off and I would not cash in any cheque I may receive. After (!) that he sent me cheques five times the item's worth. From the Netherlands btw. I tested them at the bank desk. Of course they were fraud but one might get tempted to cash them in. Police explained me that's a common trick. Because it might take some time until realizing the cheques were fraud or not covered but you would have already sent your goods. But that's not even what the trickster really wants. In the meantime the guy would contact his unaware victim once more to ask back some money because he „accidentally“ sent too much. Hope I can explain this here right due to my non-native english.

I know it smelled fishy from the start but oh well... I realized soon enough and this just as a warning to you guys, especially when I can put an email adress to it.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Krohurte

[neepheid]

Ahh, the classic overpayment scam. Oops, I wrote the wrong value - could you refund me the difference? YEAH RIGHT. Poke it.

[Maverick]

They actually spotted that they were fraudulent at the bank?

That's quite odd actually, as as I've heard this tale told before, the entire point of this trick is that the cheques themselves are actually legit. They're even supposed to clear, so that when they clear you would send the goods out, and refund the difference then. However, the cheque clearing is not the funds actually being transferred, but the bank confirming that the funds are available. The cheque amount is nominally added to your account balance at this point for convenience I guess.

However, there is then a gap (which can be fairly significant) between the cheque clearing and the funds actually being transferred. During this time they may be withdrawn, so that when the bank does actually go to transfer the funds they're no longer there and the cheque then bounces. This whole process can take a long while to complete so by the time you find out, you're goosed.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Maverick

[flyfisher]

I've heard about that cheque-clearing one before.

Bank: "The cheque has cleared and we've credited your account accordingly." Later: "Sorry, we didn't receive the funds so we're taking back the money"

It's absolutely outrageous that the banking system allows such a thing to happen. It's obvious that some crooks will exploit such an obvious loophole. I can't understand why they don't stop such practices.

[Knork]

I asked two different banks to check the cheques without actually cashing them. The first was unsure if they're legit and the second one was quite sure they weren't. Something about the numbers on them bothered them. But they didn't/couldn't explain me the trick. That whole trick with the time gap between clearing and transferring was explained to me afterwards by a police officer. I went to the police station mainly out of curiosity, it was just around the corner from the bank.

[Knork]

ooops sorry I didn't see the pinned scam topics above....

[tom1946]

I think that loophole has been closed now Flyfisher, the bank has to clear any cheque after 5 working days.

My manager told me that.

[Musky]

[quote name='tom1946' post='1119719' date='Feb 8 2011, 06:40 AM']I think that loophole has been closed now Flyfisher, the bank has to clear any cheque after 5 working days.

My manager told me that.[/quote]
A bank will 'clear' a cheque within a matter of days but, as the OP points out, if the cheque is subsequently found to be fraudulent they will withdraw that amount from your account.

[flyfisher]

There must, surely, be an absolute cut-off point at which the bank guarantee the money from a cheque in your account?

Perhaps they use a different term than "cleared"?

[Musky]

I don't know if it's still the case but my brother in law (who's an accountant) told me that a payment by cheque is never 'safe', and cited a case where the money was debited from the receiver's account several years later.

[Kev]

i am fairly sure it is 14 working days after the cheque has been banked that the money is officially 'cleared'. The bank will not reject a cheque payment after this.

[Musky]

Here you go, it seems the law in the UK has changed - [url="http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/payments_industry/payment_fraud/cheque_fraud/"]http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/payments_indu...d/cheque_fraud/[/url]

[quote]At the end of November 2007, the banking industry changed the way cheques are processed to benefit customers accepting cheques. The change means that you can be sure that at the end of six working days (after paying in a cheque) the money is yours and you are protected from any loss if the cheque subsequently bounces or turns out to be fraudulent. This means that the funds from a cheque cannot then be reclaimed without your permission, unless you are knowing party to fraud.[/quote]

On a side note, I notice they're withdrawing the Cheque Guarantee Card next June. Worth bearing in mind if anyone trys paying you with a cheque after this date because "you're guaranteed to get your money".