Bloc Riff Nut Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I love listening to guitary music like Pearl Jam, Metallica, RHCP, Queen, Pink Floyd,Gary Moore etc. So why does getting on stage and playing with them irritate (sometimes annoy) me so much ? I think it's got something to do with the fact that the guys I've played with in the past haven't been very subtle. There is no consideration for the hours I'd spent refining my tone, they smothered it with distortion. Maybe I should start looking for a band set-up with keyboard and brass. Is your playing taste different to your listening taste ? Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's because you are playing with the wrong guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Doddy' post='1119500' date='Feb 7 2011, 09:32 PM']It's because you are playing with the wrong guys.[/quote] And probably spending too much of your time obsessing over tone. Edited February 7, 2011 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloc Riff Nut Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 [quote name='skej21' post='1119502' date='Feb 7 2011, 10:33 PM']And probably spending too much of your time obsessing over tone.[/quote] I'm not tone obsessive, but it does deserve attention. So, probably the wrong guys I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 [quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1119498' date='Feb 7 2011, 09:30 PM']Is your playing taste different to your listening taste ?[/quote] Absolutely. But I don't get paid to listen to music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Theres always the thought that making your bass tone as good as it is simply makes the whole band sound better as it works well with the, admittedly, over-distorted guitars. So although the audience can`t actually hear you - and bear in mind most audience members don`t listen to the bass anyway, and probably wouldn`t know what the bass actually is, your work is invaluable to the overall sound of the band. Edited February 8, 2011 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I agree with Doddy, you are playing with the wrong guys. You don't say how experienced they are or what their motivations are. I have seen plenty of sh*t bassists, drummers, keyboardists, singers, too. Also, there is no requirement whatsoever in a band for other band members to be considerate of the time you took to select your tone, gear, or your shoes. If it works it works, if it doesn't then something needs done. Many musicians only listen to themselves. If the distortion is part of the band sound, then you need to refine your tone to suit. Often you'll be felt more than heard. In bands like that, not many of the audience care about the bass, it's distorted guitars that make them moist. That's why I don't play that sort of music any more, it's more fun being in the audience most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The more distortion the better I say. Anything that hides my playing is a bonus Despite my limited ability I don't think I've ever felt like that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I may have had a run of bad luck but I have only ever met a handful of genuinely clued up, thoughtful, humble and clever guitarist in just over 10 years playing. My three best friends in the world are Guitarists and only one of them falls under the description above. They are all lovely people (like brothers to me) but as soon as you put a guitar in their hands 2 of them become selfish, inconsidderate, over opinionated, noisy, and turn into typical guitar player cliche's. In my experience most people who call themselves 'Lead Guitarists' believe the following: 1. You should play whatever songs they want to play at all times. 2. They can play bass easily, its just guitar with four strings (they then start playing it like lead guitar) 3. They can put a distorted screaming solo in any song and it fits, even if your playing motown! 4. They are always in tune, it must be someone else! (one of the guitarists I play with now actually asked if the keyboard player could 'tune his keyboard' to match him!!!!! 5. Trying every effect on their pedal board through practice and over people when they are talking about the song is perfectly acceptable 6. They should be louder than everyone else 7. If they cant play it, its a rubbish song and noone will like it. 8. They are always playing the right chords and everyone else must have been listening to a different version. 9. No matter what the song, they should play loud and heavy all the way through even if the song requires them to not play for a few bars. I am sure there are many more but in my experience most guitarist are total knob-heads! There are always exceptions though, another guitarist I play with is quiet, subtle, doesnt like to solo (but can rip it up like you wouldnt believe) will turn the guitar off in between songs and has a keen interest in the sound of the whole band and takes a keen interest in everyones gear including the bass tone and compliments my sound quite often. Sorry massive rant, you can tell I have guitarist issues, they are starting to go after playing with my new guitarist though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shambo Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Wait 'till you're playing a gig with a sound engineer... and you can vent at them instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='NJE' post='1120202' date='Feb 8 2011, 03:53 PM']I may have had a run of bad luck but I have only ever met a handful of genuinely clued up, thoughtful, humble and clever guitarist in just over 10 years playing. My three best friends in the world are Guitarists and only one of them falls under the description above. They are all lovely people (like brothers to me) but as soon as you put a guitar in their hands 2 of them become selfish, inconsidderate, over opinionated, noisy, and turn into typical guitar player cliche's. In my experience most people who call themselves 'Lead Guitarists' believe the following: 1. You should play whatever songs they want to play at all times. 2. They can play bass easily, its just guitar with four strings (they then start playing it like lead guitar) 3. They can put a distorted screaming solo in any song and it fits, even if your playing motown! 4. They are always in tune, it must be someone else! (one of the guitarists I play with now actually asked if the keyboard player could 'tune his keyboard' to match him!!!!! 5. Trying every effect on their pedal board through practice and over people when they are talking about the song is perfectly acceptable 6. They should be louder than everyone else 7. If they cant play it, its a rubbish song and noone will like it. 8. They are always playing the right chords and everyone else must have been listening to a different version. 9. No matter what the song, they should play loud and heavy all the way through even if the song requires them to not play for a few bars. I am sure there are many more but in my experience most guitarist are total knob-heads! There are always exceptions though, another guitarist I play with is quiet, subtle, doesnt like to solo (but can rip it up like you wouldnt believe) will turn the guitar off in between songs and has a keen interest in the sound of the whole band and takes a keen interest in everyones gear including the bass tone and compliments my sound quite often. Sorry massive rant, you can tell I have guitarist issues, they are starting to go after playing with my new guitarist though..[/quote] Actually I must admit although its a bit of a rant BUT I thnk there is more of a grain of truth in this . To pick up on your earlier point I think its a very valuable question to ask can you be happy playing a type of music that you dont really enjoy listening to . Over the last month or so I've be reassessing why I play bass and why the band thing hasnt worked for me. I 'm begining to think that its because the music that I like and therefore the bands that I want to play in are guitar based rock which , apart from the usual suspects, isnt particularly demanding for bass. Therefore as a bass player I'm seen as the bottom of the musical ladder and treated accordingly. So the options are play a type of music which I dont like quite as much , continue being treated liek rubbish or give up altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raslee Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 One thing i love about being in a reggae band is i never have to compete with a geeetwrist....tis usually the otherway round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yeah, my old band were a death metally/proggy outfit, but to be honest, I don't think I could stomach listening to an entire Cannibal Corpse or Beneath the Massacre album in one go. I loved playing it though, and because I was 'uneducated' in the ways of death metal, I brought a nice melodic and musical flavour to the music I reckon. As for guitarists though, I've always been so lucky. In my last band (again), one of the guitarists was determined that he should not have the same sound as the other, but instead, looked for ways with which he could complement the bass and the other guitar. One of the guys had a lovely bassy sound from his Peavey 5150, and the other filled in the higher aspects with his delicious Blackstar. Both guitarists were also very restrained soloists and tended not to bother with effects. The drummer was always the noisy one. Constantly thudding away without turning off his triggers. Gah! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlucas Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Crazy as it sounds, i gained a lot from playing in church, as the guitarists are all nice enough fellows, have a brilliant understanding of music and are typically not the arrogant sterotype! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1119500' date='Feb 7 2011, 09:32 PM']It's because you are playing with the wrong guys.[/quote] and another plus the one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 i used to have trouble finding the right space in the mix with two guitarists using distortion. try to avoid scooping mids, and even try boosting them. it may not sound ideal when you're playing alone, but will really help your sound from getting lost or muffled when everyone is playing together. also, get everyone to practise quietly at first. it's surprising how that can tidy up a performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='NJE' post='1120202' date='Feb 8 2011, 03:53 PM']In my experience most people who call themselves 'Lead Guitarists' believe the following: 1. You should play whatever songs they want to play at all times. 2. They can play bass easily, its just guitar with four strings (they then start playing it like lead guitar) 3. They can put a distorted screaming solo in any song and it fits, even if your playing motown! 4. They are always in tune, it must be someone else! (one of the guitarists I play with now actually asked if the keyboard player could 'tune his keyboard' to match him!!!!! 5. Trying every effect on their pedal board through practice and over people when they are talking about the song is perfectly acceptable 6. They should be louder than everyone else 7. If they cant play it, its a rubbish song and noone will like it. 8. They are always playing the right chords and everyone else must have been listening to a different version. 9. No matter what the song, they should play loud and heavy all the way through even if the song requires them to not play for a few bars. I am sure there are many more but in my experience most guitarist are total knob-heads![/quote] You've played in the band that I've just left, haven't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1120280' date='Feb 8 2011, 04:51 PM']The first couple of guitarist I worked were great but then as far as being in a band we all grew up together being the first for all of us from school onwards. As were some of the ones I did wee side projects with. I then give up for a while, a few months after starting again I get asked to join another lot. A few signs things weren't going to go well. When lead guitarist first words are "Oh I thought you'd have a precision" I have noticed that on every you tube video there bassists have all been playing precisions. When Lead guitarist has been teaching the rhythm guitarist and rhythm guitarists first go at playing with anyone but his "mentor" has all the same habits and cheaper versions of the same gear and doesn't know note positions or chord names. same pickup selection and not too far away on the amp settings. Lead guitarist has no interest in saying what chords are being used other than its in the key of x I think and telling his "pupil" to sort me out who doesn't know either. "Ahhhh it's that that then this one and then that" First 4 songs of the cd I was given and told to look over are not the same 4 songs the guitarists were there to play. One of the songs I was given was a cover and totally different version of what the guitarist played. They want me to learn a song they think was called "blah blah blah or something like that" for next time which no one had a copy of and I couldn't even find it on youtube or Limewire. Even searching through albums of the supposed artist I couldn't find any titles remotely the same. The guitarists decides to leave out the bridges in some songs without telling anyone. Of course he taught the other guy the song so he doesn't know the bridge and the Lead guitarist is adamant it didn't exist anyway. Despite the fact the lyrics just don't fit with out it. Not a tuner between the two of them. Being told "we're not a band that uses effects" despite the fact I was only using my multi FX as a tuner, there was nothing added. Being told I couldn't set up near the drummer as the Lead guitarist needed to be there. Then of course he procedes to turn up so he can hear himself over the drummer so I have to watch rather than listen to the drummer. Whilst having an identical sounding guitar beside me turned up so the lead guitarist can hear him. I ended up mic'd and through the PA so I could be heard because the Roland cube they had wasn't big enough to be heard over the guitars. The whole experience put me off and I'll admit 5 years later still puts me off playing with anyone else .[/quote] You have also played in the band I have just left! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1120280' date='Feb 8 2011, 04:51 PM']Lead guitarist has no interest in saying what chords are being used other than its in the key of x I think and telling his "pupil" to sort me out who doesn't know either. "Ahhhh it's that that then this one and then that" First 4 songs of the cd I was given and told to look over are not the same 4 songs the guitarists were there to play. One of the songs I was given was a cover and totally different version of what the guitarist played. They want me to learn a song they think was called "blah blah blah or something like that" for next time which no one had a copy of and I couldn't even find it on youtube or Limewire. Even searching through albums of the supposed artist I couldn't find any titles remotely the same. Not a tuner between the two of them.[/quote] I think I have been in the same band, or my earlier theory is correct, most guitarists are knob heads! I love the tuner bit, the same guitarist that asked the keyboard player to "tune up" also doesnt use a proper tuner. He was having trouble tuning at practice once so I offered him my korg (despite the fact that he has one on his digitech he cant work) he said "no I always tune by ear" as if that was the proffesional way of doing things. It took him 15 minutes to tune up and then he was in tune with an old record we were learning and not in concert pitch. Anyway it was shortly after that he asked the keyboard player to tune to him, the response from the keyboard player was actually quite calm and polite (I was on the verge of beating him with his digitech) he said "I have a traspose button that goes up in semitones, its electronic I cant tune it, you tuned by ear your out with the rest of us" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlucas Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Possibly the best advice my band got from a well-matured friend who plays guitar: "It is essential that the electric guitar leaves gaps in the music, increasing the chill out factor, adding depth to the music and leaving breathing space for the other musicians. A good guitar player will also not attempt anything he knows he probably can't achieve, stick with simplicity but every so often go to the point where you are reaching your max knowledge and comfort, then dip back down, it really adds weight!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Some great stories there... made me chuckle... Seriously though, jack the band in or kick the guitarists out. A quiet word with the Keyboardist and Drummer may reveal their real feelings… I have found guitarists are the easiest to replace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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