Do British combo's sound different?

[iconic]

I have had a fair few combo's lent to me/played/fiddled with I'm no expert and have never played with anything expensive, never played an 8 foot high rig so be gentle with me here.

I finally got to play an Ashdown, it's only a little EB-180 but what a delight, it's got such nice, lovely, warm, creamy, rich, plush sorta tone, with a superb feel 'the bass in my guts' bottom end...and it's only a single lil' 12" ported speaker...I'm amazed.

technical point:...it moves more stuff around the house upstairs according to the wife I also think to my mind I think it's not really a true 180 watts, my Hartke was louder at 90w...although the Hartke was 'harsher' sounding, no thats maybe the wrong word, possibly I mean more clinical, abrasive, hardended maybe in tone.

....this EB has a wonderful fretless sound too, makes my VMJF sound like a hundred cats meowing away on a midnight fence...I liked it so much I bought one.... I love it's sound...or it could be this one little amp of course


Scroll on:

1/ I meet a bass player of many years standing and he tells me it's a British thing, this type of sound (he said colour to be pedantic), Brit amps/design whatever you wish to call it. Yes, I know Ashdown, although British, are no doubt built in the far east like everything else nowdays,
He told me they (Brit stuff) always seem to be warmer/darker with the rest seeming to be more 'more hi-fi'... I know it's a cliche, but he told I'm telling you...and I sort know know what he means.

2/ I then said the only other amp that left a lasting impression on me was an old Fender Bassman 100 valve rig and then the guy said...'it's the valves'...which is a std answer! To me this EB sounds very similar.

3/ We then amble on and I tell him I keep thinking of buying an old Trace Elliot if only for the fact that I used to see them at gigs in the 80's, they are (was) very British & importantly I'm very shallow and simply adore the colours...which is strange as I'm colour blind but hey black and green whats not to like

....I was then told by Mr B Ass Anorak the old Trace guys set up Ashdown...now I never knew that?

what do you reckon? Was this guy an amp guru or simply a very pleasant dreamer...actually he was a real nice guy and his mate may buy a Focus from me in case you are reading this

Edited February 8, 2011 by iconic

[Lozz196]

I don`t know about amp makes, but speaker makes certainly sound different to me. Celestions seem to have a "hardness" to their sound, specifically with the lower-mids, whereas Eminence seem to be warmer and more "creamy" in the same low-mid area.

[icastle]

Dunno about 'guru' but he is either correct or expressing a perfectly valid opinion.

1) 'Classic' British amps do have a particular tone - whether that's to do with being British or if it's more to do with the fact that amp designs from that era have a particular tone because that's what the punters wanted then, I wouldn't like to say!

2) Some people do rave about valve amps.

3) Ashdown does have ties with the old Trace Elliot company.

I've never played an 8' high rig either - how on earth do people reach the volume control?!?

[xgsjx]

I rememember reading somewhere a while ago that Ashdown was set up by an ex Trace Elliot engineer.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashdown_Engineering"]Found a Wiki[/url]

Edited February 8, 2011 by xgsjx

[Ghost_Bass]

Yep! Ashdown was started by a Trace engineers after he left the company.

Brit amplification has a very distingushed flavour to it's sound. I always loved it. Trace, Ashdown, Laney are the most common around here and never looked twice on an Ampeg having a Trace on it's side. Currently i had a change of heart and am very happy with my new US made amp (Genz Benz) and sold one Trace combo and am in the way of trying to sell my other one but i'll always keep my trusty old Boxer15 for home practise - lovely little thing with a big sound for it's size!

[dan670844]

[quote name='iconic' post='1119823' date='Feb 8 2011, 09:54 AM']I have had a fair few combo's lent to me/played/fiddled with I'm no expert and have never played with anything expensive, never played an 8 foot high rig so be gentle with me here.

I finally got to play an Ashdown, it's only a little EB-180 but what a delight, it's got such nice, lovely, warm, creamy, rich, plush sorta tone, with a superb feel 'the bass in my guts' bottom end...and it's only a single lil' 12" ported speaker...I'm amazed.

technical point:...it moves more stuff around the house upstairs according to the wife I also think to my mind I think it's not really a true 180 watts, my Hartke was louder at 90w...although the Hartke was 'harsher' sounding, no thats maybe the wrong word, possibly I mean more clinical, abrasive, hardended maybe in tone.

....this EB has a wonderful fretless sound too, makes my VMJF sound like a hundred cats meowing away on a midnight fence...I liked it so much I bought one.... I love it's sound...or it could be this one little amp of course


Scroll on:

1/ I meet a bass player of many years standing and he tells me it's a British thing, this type of sound (he said colour to be pedantic), Brit amps/design whatever you wish to call it. Yes, I know Ashdown, although British, are no doubt built in the far east like everything else nowdays,
He told me they (Brit stuff) always seem to be warmer/darker with the rest seeming to be more 'more hi-fi'... I know it's a cliche, but he told I'm telling you...and I sort know know what he means.

2/ I then said the only other amp that left a lasting impression on me was an old Fender Bassman 100 valve rig and then the guy said...'it's the valves'...which is a std answer! To me this EB sounds very similar.

3/ We then amble on and I tell him I keep thinking of buying an old Trace Elliot if only for the fact that I used to see them at gigs in the 80's, they are (was) very British & importantly I'm very shallow and simply adore the colours...which is strange as I'm colour blind but hey black and green whats not to like

....I was then told by Mr B Ass Anorak the old Trace guys set up Ashdown...now I never knew that?

what do you reckon? Was this guy an amp guru or simply a very pleasant dreamer...actually he was a real nice guy and his mate may buy a Focus from me in case you are reading this [/quote]


Ashdown is owned by Mark Gooday, He was one of the original owners / Directors of Trace elliot.

I think it more of a question of the eq of the amp rather than specific issues with speakers etc (although they also have a great effect, but not so much in combos as they will be matched as best), I am talking about bass amps hear really
Ashdowns amps 'flat' eq tends to have a 100hz bump and a roll off at around 5khz to reduce attack dynamics, this gives a warm old school almost valvey sound. The higher end Abm's and Klystrons you can Eq this out if you don't like it!

The trace elliot sound is much sharper with higher definition and harder attack on the 'flat' eq

But Ashdown also do the signature series i.e Mark King and JJ Burnell heads these are basically a Trace elliot series 6 in modern clothes

Most of the higher end Ashdown stuff is made in the UK!

Its a question of taste, I use ABM's Mk500 an old SVT and a Trace elliot SMX depending on what sound I am after.

Your guy is right if he is talking about old amps in particular valve ones from the 60-70 era as the output valve has an effect on the overall sound with these amps
the Americans tended to use 6l6 6v6 type valves in the output sections these give a very tight low end and a good top end with scouped mids
The brits used primarily EL34 which have less low end definition and the 5Khz is a bit muted so you get that warm sound.

Ashdown with there preamps are really trying to emulate the UK valve warm sound ha ha not my cup of tea most of the time I always Q it out!

I played around with EB and Mag amps for a while they are nice amps, just because they are cheap doesn't mean they arent any good, they just don't have the bells and whistles on them.

An old Trace combo is a nice cheap way of getting a good sound, I would go for a series 6 or earlier avoid smx and they are very complicated to fix if they go wrong. But they are getting old now. If you want something that sound great and made in the UK have a look at ashdowns dual valve combos they are really fantastic sounding amps esp the 15"

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='icastle' post='1119845' date='Feb 8 2011, 10:20 AM']I've never played an 8' high rig either - how on earth do people reach the volume control?!? [/quote]
Some can, some can't!

[EssentialTension]

Did you say 8'?

[icastle]

[quote name='Big_Stu' post='1120155' date='Feb 8 2011, 03:05 PM']Some can, some can't!
[/quote]

I'm definately in the can't category.

[flyfisher]

I've read references to a "British sound" in the hi-fi world (which is generally even more full of snake-oil salesmen than the music world) so I'd say it's certainly a well established concept. Whether it has any real basis in fact I'm not so sure. In fact, in the hi-fi world the concept has always amused me as the purist view would surely require an amp to have no innate tonal qualities of its own anyway.

Surely the sound from a combo will also depend a great deal on the type of bass being used. Heck, we've even discussed how tone can be affected by the style of the player. The there is the room it is played in and probably a who host of other things. I'm not saying all amps sound the same but I'm not convinced that an amp, alone, can be the main defining factor.

[umph]

in my mind british sound refers to the crunchey sound marshalls get and the sounds you get from trace elliot and ashdown are very different indeed.

To answer the main question though different amps obviously sound different and most companys tend to have similar sounding amps

[stingrayPete1977]

Up until last year I had an early ABM Evo Ashdown rig (uk built hand signed inside) anyone familiar with trace stuff would feel at home with the controls on the Ashdown stuff. Sound like he knew what he was talking about to me.

[iconic]

cheers for the 'feedback' guys

[dougie]

I can.....8ft of total fit for the bin feel sorry for me sh*te......

[paul_5]

I've often wondered about this. Can this 'difference' be related to the mains voltage (110V in the US, and 230v in the UK)? Anyone know if this the case?

[4-string-thing]

I think its an old valve amp thing.

These modern amp simulator thingys can't use trademarked names, so they use things like "British" to describe crunchy tones like a vintage Marshall or Vox and "American" to describe a cleaner sound, more akin to a Fender twin or bassman.

Out of interest, my (far east built) Ashdown heads, to my ears, sound remarkably like my 31 year old (USA) Acoustic 220 head!

Edited February 8, 2011 by 4-string-thing

[icastle]

[quote name='paul_5' post='1120576' date='Feb 8 2011, 08:30 PM']I've often wondered about this. Can this 'difference' be related to the mains voltage (110V in the US, and 230v in the UK)? Anyone know if this the case?[/quote]

Nope
The 'audio part' of the amp doesn't use raw mains voltage.

[Musky]

I really don't think there is a 'British Sound' as far as bass amps are concerned. Many manufacturers will try to create their own sound across their range of amps, but this doesn't seem to be based on any geographic preferences. Trace Elliot and Ashdown generally sound like chalk and cheese, despite the links in their heritage and coming from the same county, never mind country.

In the guitar world American drive and British drive are often referred to, usually on modelling amps/effects, but these tend to refer to typical Marshall/Orange/Hiwatt sounds versus the more high gain, saturated sounds of the likes of Mesa and Soldano. Typical Vox or Fender guitar amps sound very different though.

So while manufacturers have their own sounds, I don't think countries do.

[bigjohn]

WTF is English?

[chris_b]

The "Brit" sound started in the mid 60's when referring to guitar amps and the difference between the rocky/dirty sound of British amps like Marshall etc and the super clean tone of American amps like Fender. I've never heard the term "Brit" sound used in the bass world before.

Edited February 9, 2011 by chris_b

[51m0n]

Dont believe the hype....

[alexclaber]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1120973' date='Feb 9 2011, 09:08 AM']The "Brit" sound started in the mid 60's when referring to guitar amps and the difference between the rocky/dirty sound of British amps like Marshall etc and the super clean tone of American amps like Fender. I've never heard the term "Brit" sound used in the bass world before.[/quote]

Exactly!

[Tengu]

My Peavey BassFEX, multi effects unit has speaker simulation on it.

One of the options is for "British", which I assumed was a reference to Trace rigs that were all the rage around the time this unit was manufactured. If I am honest I haven't noticed the slightest difference in sound but then again you are going to find that the speakers you are actually playing through colour the sound more.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='1120029' date='Feb 8 2011, 01:07 PM']Trace, Ashdown, Laney are the most common around here[/quote]

Are Orange in the British bass amp category, I know they are for guitars.

I don't know about British bass amps (sorry, I really don't like Ashdowns, I do like some of the other brands mentioned though so I don't really think they have a specific sound) but British guitar amps are very obviously voiced. They're usually very gainy, crunchy overdrives and slightly broken up cleans. Very often single channel stuff that do both well, just not at the same time.

[Roland Rock]

Just a thought - with valve amps, the US tend to use 6550s and UK tend to use KT88s - could this be a contributing factor when it comes to tone difference? Makes sense to me. My amp was US made, complete with 6550s, but I put in some KT88s (plus bias tweaking) and I definitely prefer the richer tone and increased headroom. Whether it's US v British tone, I'm not sure!

Edited February 13, 2011 by Roland Rock