Headless Thunderbird

[neepheid]

Well, that's knackered that then:



There was a bit of a hump to get rid of at the head, so after some attacking with a chisel and sandpaper I got this:





Still some shaping to be done at the headpiece, but it's definitely a headless neck now

Edited August 6, 2011 by neepheid

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='neepheid' post='1330403' date='Aug 6 2011, 10:12 PM']Well, that's knackered that then....[/quote]
Wa-hey it's finally a headless. Nice one.
I don't know about knackerd, it was probably more knackerd before you cut that last bit off eh so a definite improvement already. Looks like you got a bit lucky with the final few mil of you cut too - if it had been any other place you'd be looking at a bit of remedial right now, but it's good that it happened at the thickest part... and a bit you wanted to remove anyway.

So where did you deliver the final coup de grâce, out at your dad's or your own workshop (soon to be Jayne's studio )

[EdwardHimself]

When you say the "hump" you mean the neck volute right? Well it's looking pretty good now, still a bit of sanding work to be done to get it really smooth but looking good so far.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1330693' date='Aug 7 2011, 10:34 AM']So where did you deliver the final coup de grâce, out at your dad's or your own workshop (soon to be Jayne's studio )[/quote]

I removed it at home with a good old tenon saw

[neepheid]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1330728' date='Aug 7 2011, 10:57 AM']When you say the "hump" you mean the neck volute right? Well it's looking pretty good now, still a bit of sanding work to be done to get it really smooth but looking good so far.[/quote]

I wouldn't call it a volute, just where a flat surface meets a rounded surface

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='neepheid' post='1331520' date='Aug 7 2011, 11:19 PM']I wouldn't call it a volute, just where a flat surface meets a rounded surface [/quote]
That's a can o' worms that one. Luthiers (and as it follows, those who speak to luthiers) and even large guitar manufactures know that spot as a volute but in the strict classic sense it isn't one.

[neepheid]

Well, I would guess that's us past the point of no return.







It's a bit of a tighter fit than I wanted (had to make a new template, it seemed I had picked up some NDF from B&Q - [i]no[/i] density fibreboard ), but it's easier to remove wood than it is to add it

[Ou7shined]

Very cool.
Now to get that dusty end access sorted.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1331589' date='Aug 8 2011, 12:47 AM']Very cool.
Now to get that dusty end access sorted.[/quote]

Yeah, the final structural things (where to put the neck screws) are predicated upon what I decide to do about that. Expect some ideas being thrown around in the thread soon.

[tommorichards]

alter the lower bout shape

[neepheid]

Still scheming on how best to modify the body without losing the overall Thunderbird aesthetic. In the mean time I have removed the extraneous nub sticking out from the body (the new neck pocket is plenty deep that it doesn't need it). I've also mostly stripped the neck and gave the body a bit more of a scrub (that matt black is bombproof though!)









Looks like I have enough thickness to do some tapering where the body meets the neck, got to slim down that heel a little!

[Blademan_98]

That is looking very cool.

The body shape is good. Just a slimming down without losing the overall shape should be enough.

Superb

[Count Bassie]

This is looking promising. Nice job so far!

[BigRedX]

I'd definitely go for loosing some more of the heel on the neck. If it was me I'd remove as much as possible back to where it goes into the neck pocket. Also plenty of scope for tapering the body behind the neck pocket like on the Lull T-Bass. I'd also look at curving away the back of the lower cut away as several of us suggested earlier in this build thread. That way the body outline looks the same from the front, but there's less wood to get in the way of your fretting hand. It certainly works a treat on my Overwater.

[ogrimark]

I showed the pictures on here last night to our lass who liked the look. The downfall was the second i started to say I really like she snapped at me, told me know and stropped off chuntering about never happy with what you got and always looking for more I have no idea what she means but i am seriously liking this Tbird.

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='ogrimark' post='1333202' date='Aug 9 2011, 03:57 AM']I showed the pictures on here last night to our lass who liked the look. The downfall was the second i started to say I really like she snapped at me, told me know and stropped off chuntering about never happy with what you got and always looking for more I have no idea what she means but i am seriously liking this Tbird.[/quote]


Women. We love 'em!

[neepheid]

I think I've finally got my head around the whole cutaway bevelling thing. I also got some inspiration from the cutaways of various EB/SG basses (keeping it in the Gibson family ) - [url="http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/parts/cutaways.php"]http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/parts/cutaways.php[/url]

I'm trying to keep the Thunderbird's combination of curves (the outside shape) and straight edges (the raised middle section). Basically the edge rounding becomes a flat surface to form the bevel. I intend to start the bevel at fret 18, follow the shape of the body to the edge of the raised centre section then come back in to meet the line of the body near the pickguard screw hole before the one at the point of the lower horn. The angle of the bevel will be between the level of the lower deck of the body at fret 18 to the bottom of the neck pocket at the front of said neck pocket.

Which will hopefully look something like this:



Thoughts before I irrevocably go down this path?

[tommorichards]

do a barrel roll?

What about doing more of a cutaway?

[neepheid]

[quote name='tommorichards' post='1334658' date='Aug 10 2011, 10:39 AM']do a barrel roll?

What about doing more of a cutaway?[/quote]

I've been mocking up different cutaway ideas and they all look wrong and spoil the Thunderbird shape too much - the point of this is to make a headless Thunderbird, not a headless "thing that looks a bit like a Thunderbird". Bevelling is a subtle way of improving access which doesn't alter the overall shape (perimeter) of the body.

A couple of people mentioned bevelling/contouring in this very thread, but I couldn't get my head around how it helped with high fret access until I had the neck in place and held the bass in a playing position. It does mean altering the angle at which you address the fingerboard, but the bevel makes that angle more possible than the vertical cliff face which normally greets you on a Thunderbird.

[JPJ]

Just a thought, but how much time do you spend playing up at the dusty end? Is it really necessary to contour the body? And If so, is it not better to contour the back of the body, where your palm goes, rather than the front?

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='JPJ' post='1334794' date='Aug 10 2011, 06:59 AM']Just a thought, but how much time do you spend playing up at the dusty end? Is it really necessary to contour the body? And If so, is it not better to contour the back of the body, where your palm goes, rather than the front?[/quote]


Depends if you're inclined to reach around the front, maybe even fold your thumb in and get your whole hand to the front of the 'board. I do that with my Epi T-Bird now... it's not as if I need to be there for long stretches, I'm not a big upper-register soloist/clinitian, so my forays up there are usually (blessedly) short!

It's a T-Bird...

[neepheid]

[quote name='JPJ' post='1334794' date='Aug 10 2011, 11:59 AM']Just a thought, but how much time do you spend playing up at the dusty end? Is it really necessary to contour the body? And If so, is it not better to contour the back of the body, where your palm goes, rather than the front?[/quote]

Admittedly I do not play up there very often, my main reasons for having 21 frets are grounded in OCD desires to have a bass start on an E and end on an E, not a D#. However it is silly to add another almost unplayable fret onto a Thunderbird without doing something about it.

I have been looking at the bass in my hands and I am confident that front bevelling is the way to go at the minimum, and probably some work done on the back too. Bevelling at the front allows you to angle your hand towards the high frets, thus making playing these frets a better proposition. I really can't see how changing the back only will help - having picked up a bass right now with a more aggressive cutaway at the bottom (curves between frets 19 and 20) it only works with the palm down because of that cutaway, there's no way you'd be able to do this on an unmodified T-bird cutaway - it sits between frets 16 and 17 and doesn't even have an appreciable edge roll-off, never mind bevelling).

I appreciate that bevelling is not as effective as a full on cutaway, but if it helps without impacting on the overall shape of the body then I'm counting it as a victory, and if it doesn't help then I guess I'll have to look at a deeper cutaway anyway.

[EdwardHimself]

I think you've pretty much made up your mind on the subject already. Might as well go for it.

[Ou7shined]

I'm not totally against the front bevel idea but I'd prefer to see this decision based on playability rather than what looks best or what is easiest to do.

With this radical neck approach, you are taking something iconic and potentially improving the design. The lower neck cutaway on these is an obvious inherent design flaw (maybe not so much by design than circumstance) that needs to be addressed too and here you are with the perfect opportunity, especially since you have actually compounded the flaw yourself by adding an extra fret.

Take a page out of the books of the builders who have been proven to have this part of the guitar right. Start your cutaway ~2 frets back and let rip.

[quote name='neepheid' post='1152323' date='Mar 7 2011, 11:56 AM']....A few reasons for not using the original neck -

1) I want 21 frets because it makes sense to me that a 4 string bass fingerboard should start with an E and end with an E. One doesn't sing "do-re-me-fa-so-la-te" without the last "do" does one? ...[/quote]
How are you going to get to play "do" if you don't make it accessible?

[tommorichards]

right hand tapping