as fast with a pick as with fingers?

[norvegicusbass]

Hello all great to join this forum. I have began playing bass again after not touching one for over twenty years and I am enjoying it enormously even if I have several years of deep encrusted rust . I am currently trying to nail a bassline from Last Train To London by ELO ( cant recall the bass player ) and can play it quite well with my fingers but cant seem to get the tempo when playing it with a pick. If anyone is familiar with the bassline during the chorus it has a series of octaves played quite fast and try as I might the speed wont come with the pick. Is it natural to be able to play octaves quicker with ones fingers? Can anyone play really quick octaves with a pick? It would seem to me a much more efficient movement with the fingers than moving the whole wrist which would be necessary when picking.

[HMX]

Firstly, good choice of song, mate.

Did Kelly Groucutt record that, or was it Jeff Lynne?

It feels more economical with fingers for me, but I find that playing (just downstrokes) with a pick can be quite comfortable, but tiring depending on the speed. If you're happy playing it with fingers, then stick with them

Also, take a look at this if it helps [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQvw2XaNj9E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQvw2XaNj9E[/url]

Edited February 9, 2011 by HMX

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='HMX' post='1122053' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:03 PM']Firstly, good choice of song, mate.

Did Kelly Groucutt record that, or was it Jeff Lynne?

It feels more economical with fingers for me, but I find that playing (just downstrokes) with a pick can be quite comfortable, but tiring depending on the speed. If you're happy playing it with fingers, then stick with them [/quote]

Cheers for the reply. Yeah back in the day when I played my bass a lot I always preferred fingers over pick but as my user name may hint at one of my fav bassists is JJ Burnel so I sometimes play with a pick ( or plec as I used to call it LOL ).

Edited February 9, 2011 by norvegicusbass

[HMX]

[quote name='norvegicusbass' post='1122060' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:07 PM']Cheers for the reply. Yeah back in the day when I played my bass a lot I always preferred fingers over pick but as my user name may hint at one of my fav bassists is JJ Burnel so I sometimes pay with a pick ( or plec as I used to call it LOL ).[/quote]
That's fair enough My dad really got me into ELO tunes.

Do you usually do alternate picking when using a plec? If so, perhaps just downstrokes would be great for octaves. I don't mean to state the obvious if this is what you're currently doing.

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='HMX' post='1122065' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:09 PM']That's fair enough My dad really got me into ELO tunes.

Do you usually do alternate picking when using a plec? If so, perhaps just downstrokes would be great for octaves. I don't mean to state the obvious if this is what you're currently doing.[/quote]

I doubt I could generate the speed necessary just using downstrokes although I always loved the even tone doing just one stroke. As I try to visualise how I play this with a pick I sort of hit the root note with an up stroke and then the octave double with a down and up stroke. Funny but I seem to have to work out which way to stroke with a pick but couldn't begin to tell you which finger i pluck the strings with. Like I say finger playing is more natural to me.

[dave_bass5]

I really wish i could play fast with fingers but no matter hard i try i can get close to my picking speed.

I find fingers look and sound more natural but i can do it at even a modest speed........or maybe its just my drummer playing too fast.

[xilddx]

I can do pretty fast string skips with the pick, but you have to practice it very slowly and gradually build up speed over a matter of weeks or months depending on how good you are with a pick already. Concentrate on keeping very accurate time, very important if you want to get your string skipping fast and accurate, I'd start at one note per second and slowly increase speed from there. You will need to cross pick - downstroke on the low string, upstroke on the high string. When you've got that pretty good, try double picking each note, this will really increase your coordination with up and dowstrokes moving to different strings. Most of the movement is from the wrist so try to keep you wrist nice and smooth, fluid motion, no tense jerky movements from the wrist thank you!

You should hear Scott Thunes do it, fantastic speed and accuracy.

Anyway, nice choice of song, welcome on board the boat, good luck with the bass line

[HMX]

I know precisely what you mean - I like pickstyle until it starts getting faster and changing strings - then I'd much rather use my fingers. I feel I have so much more freedom.

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1122089' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:26 PM']I really wish i could play fast with fingers but no matter hard i try i can get close to my picking speed.

I find fingers look and sound more natural but i can do it at even a modest speed........or maybe its just my drummer playing too fast.[/quote]

Must just be what you are used to I suppose. When I started a lot of bands current to the times used a pick, The Jam, The Stranglers, The Clash etc but I always thought ( naively ) fingers looked more professional and classy. I wish I had practiced more with a plec as there is a tonality you get from it that is unique and sounds great for certain songs. Dave have you heard of the song I mentioned in my opening post? If you can play that with a pick that is mighty impressive and the sound must be brilliant.

[BigAlonBass]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1122089' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:26 PM']I really wish i could play fast with fingers but no matter hard i try i [b]CAN'T [/b]get close to my picking speed.

I find fingers look and sound more natural but i [b]CAN'T [/b]do it at even a modest speed........or maybe its just my drummer playing too fast.[/quote]

Fixed it. I think that's what you meant to write.

[stingrayPete1977]

Like many things it's practice or more often for me pressure, I rarely played with a plectrum for years then started playing in an indie/rock band that featured a picked sound so I got plenty of practice/gig hours with the plec which has helped me to be able to thrash out in 32nds across all strings, Obviously you need to stand with your legs spread wide and hang your head down to be able to do it

Practice and I agree with Nigel, down stroke the thick string then up stroke the smaller with a loose wrist.

Edited February 9, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[SteveK]

Just done a quick Youtube of the song. The chorus is played with a pick and consists of an 8th note followed by two 16ths an octave up, a la dum diddy dum diddy etc
If you've only just started playing again, then I think you will probably struggle to play it the conventional two finger style.
I would think a pick would be easier (and more authentic). Definitely do not attempt all down strokes - you'll do yourself a mischief

Another way, you could try playing the lower (8th note) with the thumb, and play the higher octave (two 16th notes) with the fingers.

[xilddx]

[quote name='SteveK' post='1122141' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:50 PM']Just done a quick Youtube of the song. The chorus is played with a pick and consists of an 8th note followed by two 16ths an octave up, a la dum diddy dum diddy etc
If you've only just started playing again, then I think you will probably struggle to play it the conventional two finger style.
I would think a pick would be easier (and more authentic). Definitely do not attempt all down strokes - you'll do yourself a mischief

Another way, you could try playing the lower (8th note) with the thumb, and play the higher octave (two 16th notes) with the fingers.[/quote]
That makes it more difficult. Best with strict alternate picking as the motion is more natural.

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='SteveK' post='1122141' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:50 PM']Just done a quick Youtube of the song. The chorus is played with a pick and consists of an 8th note followed by two 16ths an octave up, a la dum diddy dum diddy etc
If you've only just started playing again, then I think you will probably struggle to play it the conventional two finger style.
I would think a pick would be easier (and more authentic). Definitely do not attempt all down strokes - you'll do yourself a mischief

Another way, you could try playing the lower (8th note) with the thumb, and play the higher octave (two 16th notes) with the fingers.[/quote]

Cheers Steve. Yeah I didnt think I could do it all downstrokes. I can play it quite good two fingered but you are right it sounds to me like the tone is via a pick and so I will take all the advice on here regards starting slow and building up speed once it feels natural. Is it more common to have to focus on pick stroke than finger stroke? Like I said earlier I can play this quite fast ( a lot faster than the track requires ) but I couldnt begin to tell you which finger I pluck the string with.

[HMX]

Not sure why I suggested downstrokes - was thinking of a different part of the song! Alternate, alternate

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='norvegicusbass' post='1122155' date='Feb 9 2011, 11:56 PM']Cheers Steve. Yeah I didnt think I could do it all downstrokes. I can play it quite good two fingered but you are right it sounds to me like the tone is via a pick and so I will take all the advice on here regards starting slow and building up speed once it feels natural. Is it more common to have to focus on pick stroke than finger stroke? Like I said earlier I can play this quite fast ( a lot faster than the track requires ) but I couldnt begin to tell you which finger I pluck the string with.[/quote]
It's only the same as pick players having to concentrate on playing finger style, The more you do it the plec will become like an extension of your hand and your brain will compensate for the distance from each string then you will have it nailed no problem. It's a more common problem for pick players to be struggling with playing fast finger style and not knowing where to anchor their thumb etc. Just keep going it will come good and I know for a fact there are some great bass players amongst us who turn their nose up at picks partly because they can't use one

Edited February 10, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[xilddx]

This geezer does a decent job of this bass part.

Not difficult but not easy either. Easier with fingers that's for sure. Like SteveK said, thumb and fingers for the dum diddy dum diddy parts is the way to go. Don't know how it was done originally though.

[xgsjx]

That would be a tricky song to play with pick & if I was to play like that the pattern would be down on the 8th & then down up on the 16ths. I'd rather play it with my fingers like in the video above.

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='silddx' post='1122405' date='Feb 10 2011, 10:28 AM']

This geezer does a decent job of this bass part.

Not difficult but not easy either. Easier with fingers that's for sure. Like SteveK said, thumb and fingers for the dum diddy dum diddy parts is the way to go. Don't know how it was done originally though.[/quote]

I have never seen it played that way with the thumb, might give it a whirl. I just play it all with two fingers and it feels comfortable enough but seeing how its possible to use the thumb like that might come in useful for other tunes.

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1122412' date='Feb 10 2011, 10:36 AM']That would be a tricky song to play with pick & if I was to play like that the pattern would be down on the 8th & then down up on the 16ths. I'd rather play it with my fingers like in the video above.[/quote]


Yeah hats off to pick players who can do this I would need years of practice to nail this with a pick

[gub]

yes it was kelly groucut a great guy who sadly passed away year before last, i had the plesure of playing with him on stage and knowing him . a lovely bloke

[HMX]

Yeah, real shame about Kelly. He was from the West country too?

[Big_Stu]

I was listening to as few tracks just last week by ELO & thinking how amazing they are; complex arrangements sometimes but often sounding deceptively simple. I only have a couple of GH CD's & the DVD of the 77 gig - or was it 78?

Many years ago I drooled now only at the ability to do this - but I also HAD to have one of those basses! There's picking - and there's picking! From kid's TV show Get Fresh.

[gub]

[quote name='Big_Stu' post='1123230' date='Feb 10 2011, 09:20 PM']I was listening to as few tracks just last week by ELO & thinking how amazing they are; complex arrangements sometimes but often sounding deceptively simple. I only have a couple of GH CD's & the DVD of the 77 gig - or was it 78?

Many years ago I drooled now only at the ability to do this - but I also HAD to have one of those basses! There's picking - and there's picking! From kid's TV show Get Fresh.
[/quote]

Very nice ,super fast and hit the spot ,cheers

[charic]

Hmm interesting. I'll have to give that a shot with a pick. I would say this song would be a great chance for economy picking practice (something Dood pointed out to me) and it's something I really want to get my head around.

Pick pattern in my mind: Down(Low String), Down (High String), Up (High String). Does that makes sense? In that way you can remove one wrist movement

Or that could be complete and utter B@!!@£%$

Edited February 11, 2011 by charic