machinehead Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have a Markbass LMII which I bought new and have loved it for every moment I've owned it. I'm thinking about changing just for the hell of it. The LMII does everything I need and more and I love the sounds I get from it through my Barefaced Compact or Midget or both together. I was thinking about either a TC Electronic Classic 450 or the RH450. There is quite a hugh difference in price between them and I wondered if owners thought it was worth the extra few hundred quid? I'm not one for changing EQ. My LMII stays roughly the same unless the room requires a change in settings and I don't use pedals. I like a deep smooth tone but with a middy growl - perfect Fender jazz territory! I'm a 99% fingers player. Mostly covers, blues, ballads in pubs etc. This leads me to think that the Classic 450 would be fine for me but, am I missing something? I know you get the presets and a tuner on the RH450 but I don't want them. So am I right here or is there a good reason to spend the extra for the RH450? I'm not exactly flush just now but I expect that to change soon so I might change in a few months if things look up. I don't want to regret not buying the more suitable amp and lose more money to change again. All experience and informed opinions most welcome. Thanks. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Having gone from LMIII - Classic 450 - RH450, I'm bound to say yes, it's a worthwhile upgrade, but I'd try the Classic 450 (or RH450) first to make sure that's the sound you're after. The core sound of the Classic 450 is the same as the RH450. I loved the LMIII, but found I was using a Sansamp BDDI permanently on it, and in a OCD-based drive to reduce kit to the minimum possible, I sourced and tried a Classic 450, which, with the Tubetone, I found I could get that valve-y Ampeg-y sound I was after (and a lot more besides). Once I'd used the Classic for a short while in a band situation, I was convinced enough to want to add the functionality of the RH450 (Tuner, adjustable EQ, programmable presets, greater connectivity on the back panel), so I part-exchanged the Classic for a RH450 on here. Because I did both moves with good people on BC for secondhand gear, the steps weren't half as painful as going straight from a LMIII to a RH450. If you're not bothered about the differences between the Classic and the RH450, then it's not worth the extra. If you are, it is. Mark at Bass Direct has lots of amps in (including the Genz stuff) so you can A-B (and -C and _D) them to your heart's content. Edit: just seen your location. That'd be a big day out, then... Edited February 11, 2011 by Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I know I've changed amps a few times in the past few months, but only because I was looking for something and what I had didn't have it. You, on the other hand, seem quite happy with the setup you've got, why change it? TC stuff doesn't sound like markbass at all, so you're in for a bit of a shock methinks. Markbass seem to have a pronounced sound that can be perceived as fat and rounded, which seems to suit you fine. To my ears the TC amps have more of an aggressive edge and more versatility, are you sure that's what you're after? If you still decide to get a tc amp, you can approach it in two ways: if I wanted to dip a toe, I'd go for one of the new BH500 heads. Bigger than the classic and RH, but sounds quite similar, to my ears. It's quite bulky, but it's also relatively cheap. If space wasn't an issue, i'd go for that over the classic 450. Otherwise you've already decided that you want a tc amp, and then i'd get the RH450. It's got loads of controls, presets memory and other bells and whistles. It sounds possibly very slightly more refined, but in a way that you won't hear in a live situation IMO. The versatility will help getting your sound, but if you're going to recreate the sound of markbass, then you're better off with markbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If it ain't broke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If the only difference between the two amps is a tuner which won`t be used, and presets which won`t be used, with the actual sound being constant between the two amps, I can`t see any argument for buying the RH. The Classic is a great portable amp, and is very versatile. I previously had an Orange Terror, which is also a great amp, but only really has one sound. The Classic can do that OTB sound, but so much more as well, due to the Tubetone and Spectracomp. As razze06 said, they do have an aggressive edge. This of course is easily eq`d out though, if required, but it`s nice to know its there. Classic gets my vote - you`re not going to use the extra features, so why pay for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 To expand on my excessively succinct comment, there's a whole host of nice sounding powerful lightweight heads out there. There's quite a large overlap in what they can all do tonally but for different bassists playing different basses through different cabs I'd recommend different heads, if a new head is being sought. If you want a change in tone then I'd look to change other stuff first (playing, gain, EQ, strings, etc). I'd never change anything for the hell of it, not if you really do love how your current rig is performing. If my rig is working how I want it to, then I can get on with the music. Obviously sometimes you never know what you're missing until you try something new but that can be slippery slope, especially in the world of rock musicians and Class A drugs, or indeed in the world of bass geekery and Class A amplifiers! Does the Classic 450 have the same DSP preamp, despite the much reduced control set? It's the cunning DSP stuff that makes the RH450 do what it does (and it's very good at what it does, if that's your bag!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve A Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1124050' date='Feb 11 2011, 04:57 PM']If it ain't broke...[/quote] ...then you'd be unwise to attempt a repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidak Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I agree with Lozz196. I play in blues/southern rock band, playing mainly jb and stingray. TC Classic totally fits my needs. I don't like overcomplicated heads, I just set one sound at start of a gig and go with it. Only thing I would like to have from RH is tuner. I'm totally satisfied with TC, I had many heads before (Aguilar, Eden, EBS, Markbass, Genz..) but this one has everything- power, sound colored to my needs, intuitive controls, comp, drive and all in hi quality and small package. I took several shoots of the amp inside: Whole photo-story: [url="http://gdavidak.rajce.idnes.cz/TC_Electronic_450/"]http://gdavidak.rajce.idnes.cz/TC_Electronic_450/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 FWIW, if I was going to buy another TC head (I owned the RH450 for about a year), I'd personally be happy with a classic - all I'd miss would be the tuner. I never used the presets or compression, and the default EQ points were spot-on for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='Lozz196' post='1124146' date='Feb 11 2011, 06:07 PM']If the only difference between the two amps is a tuner which won`t be used, and presets which won`t be used[/quote] I think a lot of owners use the presets, and the tuner is handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) This thread is not helping me clear my credit cards lol. I sold my LMII end of last year and planned to get a TC classic to replace it, and hopefully then sell my SA450 as well as i dont need two heads. I too dont really need it use the EQ on my SA450 and play with my BDDI on all the time, doing covers from 50's to modern day, although majority from the 60s-70s. I hoped to get Clarky's but missed out on it end of last year. I had forgotten all about getting one until i saw this thread, and especially those pics posted above, now i want one again. Subscribing to see how it goes as i feel my needs are very close to Muzz's Edited February 12, 2011 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='lojo' post='1124699' date='Feb 12 2011, 10:07 AM']....I think a lot of owners use the presets, and the tuner is handy....[/quote] I think a lot of owners use the presets because they are there! I have stopped using the presets and now run my TC amp flat. It's a much better sound for me, and why would you not use a built in tuner if you had one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingenius Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Guys my two peneth, FWIW i agree with Muzz really.. i bought mine off Wateroftyne and to be honest it was meant to be a put me on whilst i debated which boutique tube head to buy. Now i am not so sure because, as Muzz before me, i was using a Class D head into a Sansamp BDDI which has 3 programmable presets all the time to get the sound i liked. ( Thanks for introducing me to the Sansamp Muzz you always end up costing me money ) Now the RH450 has completley blown my thought process and possibly saved me a good wedge. I get 3 presets a tuner and that lovely tube sound that covers everything i get from the Sansamp in one package.. and you can link 2 heads together if you need more power. I woudnt get rid of the sanasamp because i take that to rehearsal and Di into the desk.. my back has never done less work !! So to summarise... I thought i would be non fussed over the RH450... WRONG, i am really loving it and if you are serious about buying a TC head... dont muck about go straight for the RH you wont be dissappointed because if you go for the classic, it will always be in the back of your mind. OH and the last thing... The LEDS around the rotarys look so COOL regards Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I dont use the features of the RH that often, but I like having them. Tubetone/Tuner are great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='razze06' post='1124046' date='Feb 11 2011, 04:54 PM']I know I've changed amps a few times in the past few months, but only because I was looking for something and what I had didn't have it. You, on the other hand, seem quite happy with the setup you've got, why change it?[/quote] That would be my view too. The search for the 'Holy Grail' of gear distracts from other important elements, like practise and technique. If your rig sounds good, could you get the perceived 'missing' piece from somewhere/something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) If you decide to go for the RH450, I have a mint, little used one including Floorboard, Bag. Original Packaging, Manuals etc. It's about 12 months old and i'm looking to sell it. Edited February 12, 2011 by BassBunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thanks very much for all the replies. The photos were particularly useful because I would have to fit a second speakon socket. Both my Barefaced cabs have only one speakon so daisy chaining them is out. I have to use two cables - one to each cab. it looks like there is space for a second speakon although I see the one in there is straight off the PCB and no cables making the job a little more awkward. Is anyone certain that the two models are identical amps? I mean with the exception of the obvious extra features on the RH450. I see some people are wondering why I would think of changing when I'm happy with Markbass. The truth is I wonder myself. It's just curiousity regarding trying different sounding amps. Regarding the advice about changing playing style, strings etc. I agree 100%. I actually just changed strings on my jazz bass and it's like having a new guitar. I love it even more. I do love the zing from round-wound steel strings. I think I only like flats on fretless. Any other advice appreciated. I still fancy trying a TC amp........ please put me off and save me money. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Two inputs/speakons/whatever would have helped on your cab! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1125374' date='Feb 12 2011, 08:12 PM']Two inputs/speakons/whatever would have helped on your cab![/quote] Agreed. As would two outputs on the amp! Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I would investigate using a split speaker lead rather than adding sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1125593' date='Feb 13 2011, 12:41 AM']I would investigate using a split speaker lead rather than adding sockets.[/quote] Funny, I was just looking at the specs for the RH450 and saw that it too has only one output to the speakers. It just occured to me that making a split speaker cable would be much easier. You'd think after 37 years in electrical engineering that would have been my first thought. Thanks for the idea chris_b. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yep, split cable - dead easy to do with speakons and sensible gauge cable (most stuff is way oversized for the short runs in bass rigs). You can split it at the amp end or at the Midget for a particularly tidy shorter run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'm still not clear if the Classic is the same amp as the RH without the presets and fancy lights. Can anyone confirm this 100% please? Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonunders Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hi, Just to add to this thread, i have a barefaced compact and when looking for an amp i tried the shuttle 9, mb little rocker, rh450 and mb lmlll. I have to admit the lmlll out did the others by a mile. Don't commit to another purchase unless you have compared the rh450 and lmlll with your cabs. jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think the classic has a 'subtle' difference in voicing. I think it was BigJim who pointed this out to me. I love my RH450 and it has made a fair impact at both of the bashes I've been too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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