keeponehandloose Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Done some recording at a studio we are very familiar with soundwise,and have plans to put some of the results out on a 45,but have a few questions. I know its all subjective but how much can the studio mix change when it lands on the record? All the recording is onto analogue tape so would the sound alter that much when put onto vinyl? Also weve been told that putting 2 songs/side can affect the overall loudness of a record,due to the the grooves being closer together?? I realise that some eq can be done at the pressing stage so hopefully all issues can be solved at this stage. All opinions welcome............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It's a very long time since I was involved in putting out 45's but yes, a cut can affect the sound of a recording quite significantly. Certainly two tracks per side on a 7" is going to make the grooves closer together and lower quality (unless they're really short). Best thing to do is make sure your master sounds exactly how you want it then make sure you get an attended cut so you're in the room when the guy does it so it stays the way you want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Like you say, EQing can be done at the mastering stage and this is really an art in itself. You need to be there for it as much as you need to be there for the final mix - don't let anyone tell you different. The length of the songs on each side can affect the overall volume, though that's not really an issue of itself. It's the loss of dynamics that's more important. A good mastering engineer should be able to guide you through all this and get the best from the pressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Make it a 12" 45RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Mastering for vinyl is an art in itself. Some people will have a preset thing that does a generic job (compress, make the bass mono), but a proper job involves a lathe thing about the size of a car. I'll ask about the good place I've been recommended before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Porky's Prime Cuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name='steve-soar' post='1124345' date='Feb 11 2011, 08:52 PM']Porky's Prime Cuts![/quote] Wow. That's something I haven't seen for a loooong time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If you are serious about audio, then every format you release should be mastered separately. Each format - vinyl, CD, MP3/ACC has different strengths and weaknesses and the mastering should take these into account. For vinyl mastering and cutting you should try and be at the sessions although since everything these days is done through brokers whether that's possible anymore is open to question. Is George Peckham - Pork's Prime Cuts - still cutting vinyl? Pretty much every decent record from the 70s and early 80s was either a "Porky Prime Cut" or a "Bilbo Bopper". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 yes to all of the above, and i'd just like to say much respect for taking this route. digital is rubbish. lo9ng live vinyl. i decided a while back that any recording i make in the future will be available on tape only. no-one ever wanted the cds anyway, and it's so much cooler to have your demo in fully packaged audio cassette. nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks for the input folks input ,I should have mentioned that the final mix is in mono and the songs are 3 minutes each. We are going for a lo-fi sound overall but thats still an art in itself. all the recording was done using original ribbon mics from the 50/60s and no overdubs,we just want to retain the warmth of the tapes and avoid any nasty surprises. I think we may be able to get a test pressing but not get there for the cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ster Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Talk to the legendary [url="http://www.skyemastering.com/"]Denis Blackham[/url] - he'll see you right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='keeponehandloose' post='1124454' date='Feb 11 2011, 10:23 PM']Thanks for the input folks input ,I should have mentioned that the final mix is in mono and the songs are 3 minutes each. We are going for a lo-fi sound overall but thats still an art in itself. all the recording was done using original ribbon mics from the 50/60s and no overdubs,we just want to retain the warmth of the tapes and avoid any nasty surprises. I think we may be able to get a test pressing but not get there for the cut.[/quote] As everyone has said, you [b]really[/b] need to be there when the cut is mastered. Not necessarily the whole band (and in my experience they don't want a whole bunch of people there), but someone who can decide what compromises are made at that stage. Getting a test pressing is fine, but if it doesn't sound how you had in mind you're looking at getting the thing remastered anyway and potentially repeating the process until it sounds how you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='steve-soar' post='1124345' date='Feb 11 2011, 08:52 PM']Porky's Prime Cuts![/quote] [quote name='Musky' post='1124348' date='Feb 11 2011, 08:54 PM']Wow. That's something I haven't seen for a loooong time! [/quote] Yeah, definitely a name from the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 The main concern we have is getting a good mix to be played loud by DJ's, my opinon is that if there is too much sub bass in the mix it will not translate welll at louder volumes,so I would tend to go for a mix that may be a bit less bottom heavy. Or am I talking sh*t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1124422' date='Feb 11 2011, 09:51 PM']yes to all of the above, and i'd just like to say much respect for taking this route. digital is rubbish. lo9ng live vinyl.[/quote] In your opinion, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='keeponehandloose' post='1125782' date='Feb 13 2011, 11:08 AM']The main concern we have is getting a good mix to be played loud by DJ's, my opinon is that if there is too much sub bass in the mix it will not translate welll at louder volumes,so I would tend to go for a mix that may be a bit less bottom heavy. Or am I talking sh*t.[/quote] Personally, I'd be more worried about the fact that vinyl is very easy to break in transit (which means you'll have to have more pressed to cover losses in transit, therefore paying out more money) and the fact that nowadays, vinyl is quite a niche market so you're likely to put a lot of people off who like to buy a tangible, physical product but lack the equipment to play it. There's a reason that WAV/Digital media is considered a technological advancement... Edited February 13, 2011 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 They still do vinyl I haven't played a vinyl for years. I think I still have a record player somewhere lol Ok, I'll get my coat..... shuffles off in disgrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I love vinyl, good on you for considering it. I went off vinyl in the 80's, mainly because I believed the hype about CD's sounding better etc. They don't sound better at all. I bought a cheapish turntable before Christmas, a Rega RP1. I've listed to a track on CD, then switched to vinyl, there's loads more detail in the vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Soliloquy' post='1126002' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:51 PM']I went off vinyl in the 80's, mainly because I believed the hype about CD's sounding better etc. They don't sound better at all. I bought a cheapish turntable before Christmas, a Rega RP1. I've listed to a track on CD, then switched to vinyl, there's loads more detail in the vinyl.[/quote] I've personally not found that to be the case at all but w/e, everyone is different of course I'd certainly agree with having it mastered for each medium- when I ripped a couple of records onto my PC I tweaked the EQ a bit in order that it sounded better in a digital format. Edited February 13, 2011 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Vinyl in the late 70s early 80s was getting steadily worse. A good deal of it was all but unplayable especially if you were into the less mainstream artists. The only reason vinyl is any good nowadays is because it has to be in order to compete with digital media. If the pressing plants were still turning out the substandard product of 25 years ago it would have completely died and rightly so. Every medium for the delivery of audio has its own strengths and weaknesses. None of the them have an overall superiority over any of the others. The trick is to use the strengths of your chosen medium and play to them and try and avoid the weaknesses. Vinyl may be a minority medium, but there are a lot of people who will buy a release simply because it is on vinyl and therefore you have a chance to get your music to an audience beyond those who would normally buy your music. The forthcoming Dick Venom single is going to be a 7" vinyl single in some fancy packaging. However there will also be a free digital download of the songs to each person who buys a copy to save them having to do their own digitising. Also for those uninterested in the physical product we will be selling plain digital downloads too. To the OP. If you go this route with both a vinyl and digital release remember that you will need to have each version mastered separately to make sure that you get the best results for each delivery medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Love Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Good stuff - If youre dealing in pretty lo-fi garagey rock 'n' roll then vinyl is still the way to go. My bands sold as much, if not more, vinyl -because thats the 'niche' market - than CD. In my experience - the right mastering for vinyl seems to be even more imperative than that for CD.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1124422' date='Feb 11 2011, 09:51 PM']digital is rubbish. lo9ng live vinyl. i decided a while back that any recording i make in the future will be available on tape only. no-one ever wanted the cds anyway, and it's so much cooler to have your demo in fully packaged audio cassette. nice one.[/quote] I don't quite know how to tell you this, but tape isn't vinyl. What you have with recordings on audio cassette is the mediocre audio quality of cassette inherent in its physical properties combined with inaccessibility because fewer people will own something to play cassettes on than CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 We've done LP in my current band and I have done a 45rpm in the past but I'd have to say the 45s are harder to shift. It's worth having a record if you want to say you've done it (& this was a big deal for me) but having done it now I'd only consider LP records. Mastering can sort out a multitude of sins that develop when formatting your tracks so I echo the comments made by the rest of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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