Wah - I can't write basslines!

[Eight]

It's been a little over two years since I bought my first bass (and registered here).

In that time, I'd like to think I've learned quite a lot. I'm totally content with the amount of progress I've made in general performance and technique; I can read notation; my transcription skills are actually pretty good; and my knowledge of music theory is... passable.

But god damn it, I still can't write a half decent bassline and I don't know why.

I know plenty of scales, arpeggios and stylistic theories blah blah, but that spark of creativity and originality just isn't there when I pick up the bass. Yet, if I sit down at the piano and noodle, I can throw together a chord progression and melody line without too much stress (nothing amazing mind).

Beginning to wonder if I'm actually meant to be a bassist at all... despite it being the only instrument I ever really felt comfortable on. I don't even know what kind of advice etc. I'm hoping for - just figured another perspective might help at the minute.

[icastle]

Have you got yourself too bogged down with the technicalities instead of getting a 'feel' for the instrument perhaps?

[norvegicusbass]

Do you play in a band? There are some basslines that sound nothing special when played in isolation but are perfect when you couple them with other instruments. Conversely some great showy bass solos are just that, pieces to show off with and have a little fun with.

[scalpy]

I was taught start with the rhythm. The notes come a distant second!

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='scalpy' post='1125932' date='Feb 13 2011, 01:44 PM']I was taught start with the rhythm. The notes come a distant second![/quote]


amen

[Eight]

[quote name='icastle' post='1125914' date='Feb 13 2011, 01:28 PM']Have you got yourself too bogged down with the technicalities instead of getting a 'feel' for the instrument perhaps?[/quote]
Oh... that's a good point. Maybe my connection to the bass at this point is all technical/physiological. I'm not sure how to fix that...

Norvegicus - I don't play in a band, no. Been looking but nothing appropriate ever seems to come along. It's definitely something that's holding me back - but I can still recognise a lame bassline when I hear (write) one.

[ZMech]

Do you mean you're trying to write interesting solo basslines? don't think i've heard very many of those at all that capture my interest, let alone ones i've come up with. From my (limited) experience, I only really enjoy playing bass if it's with a drummer. Try seeing if there are any open jam nights near you, will at the least get you some band playing experience

[Mog]

[quote name='Eight' post='1125902' date='Feb 13 2011, 01:16 PM']I know plenty of scales, arpeggios and stylistic theories blah blah, but that spark of creativity and originality just isn't there when I pick up the bass. Yet, if I sit down at the piano and noodle, I can throw together a chord progression and melody line without too much stress (nothing amazing mind).[/quote]

I dont get that bit? If you can do it on piano then you can do it on bass. Just use the same approach.

[janmaat]

[quote name='Zach' post='1125948' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:03 PM']Do you mean you're trying to write interesting solo basslines? don't think i've heard very many of those at all that capture my interest, let alone ones i've come up with. From my (limited) experience, I only really enjoy playing bass if it's with a drummer. Try seeing if there are any open jam nights near you, will at the least get you some band playing experience[/quote]

+1 for the band. If there is no session that needs bass player, than just start one - you play bass, you ARE the band (in the sense that there is no band without bass). just find some local musicians. and as said above: a good bassline is relative to what else is going on in the music.

[Doddy]

When you've written a melody or a progression,put the instrument down and just listen. Try to sing an idea for a bassline,before you pick up the bass. This will stop you from falling into your stock patterns,and make for a more interesting line.

[Eight]

[quote name='Zach' post='1125948' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:03 PM']Do you mean you're trying to write interesting solo basslines?[/quote]
No, I mean any bass lines. Give me an A blues backing for example, and I'll play all the right notes in one of the most boring, unoriginal, repetitive (or at the other end of the spectrum - random) lines you've ever heard.

A solo line (as the lead instrument) would be a lot easier. You can get away with anything then.

[Fat Rich]

Maybe find some interesting drum loops and try a few things with each loop:

1. Something really simple that is locked into the rhythm, probably the bass drum. Not melodic at all, focus on groove.
2. Something melodic like you'd play on the piano
3. Something more complex rhythmically but simple melodically that maybe augments the groove of the loop
4. Some different combinations of what you've come up with for 1, 2 & 3

Take "Good Times" by Chic as an example, first bar of the riff is one note on the beat, second part is melodic and syncopated.

Ear training is important, can you hear bass lines in your head but can't find them on the bass? There's lots of stuff out there to help you identify intervals, it's also something that will improve the more you play.

Work out lots of songs and pinch and modify the bits you like, that's what most people do!

Googled drum loops:

[url="http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=free+drum+loops&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=2OhXTcOVD4eohAesgqTzDA"]http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safa...VD4eohAesgqTzDA[/url]

Good luck!

Edited February 13, 2011 by Fat Rich

[icastle]

[quote name='Eight' post='1125940' date='Feb 13 2011, 01:50 PM']Oh... that's a good point. Maybe my connection to the bass at this point is all technical/physiological. I'm not sure how to fix that...[/quote]

Well, putting away your books and charts for now would be a start.
Try hooking up with some other local musicians, if you're not ready to commit to a band then try some of the plug n play nights that have sprung up all over the place.

Whilst it's great to strive towards greater things, you have to be realistic about what you're trying to achieve.
Learning an instrument is a series of 'plateaus' - you get so far and then get stuck.
You try and try and try and it just isn't happening.
Then one day you try it and it does... then you carry on at a pace until you reach the next plateau...
You are only two years into playing bass and this sort of thing is going to happen time and time again.

For what it's worth, my feeling is that a simple bass line that blends seamlessly in with the rest of a piece is far better than a super clever bassline that is distracting and inappropriate.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='janmaat' post='1125955' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:07 PM']+1 for the band. If there is no session that needs bass player, than just start one - you play bass, you ARE the band (in the sense that there is no band without bass). just find some local musicians. and as said above: a good bassline is relative to what else is going on in the music.[/quote]
Absolutely.
I really like to be left until last. All the best stuff I've done has come about from my not being at rehearsal, and then someone would shove me a tape or MP3 and say "needs a bassline".
All you need do is listen, and then hum/sing a harmony a few times. Then pick up bass & play...
Besides, being in a band afford several unique oppotunities;
Playing LOUD!
Playing with a drummer
Abusing Guitarists...

[skej21]

[quote name='Mog' post='1125950' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:05 PM']I dont get that bit? If you can do it on piano then you can do it on bass. Just use the same approach.[/quote]

If you can write a killer bassline on the piano and then mimic it on bass then I agree with this.

If you're writing basslines as a pianist on the piano, then I'd question whether you're giving the lines enough attention. Some of the most boring, unmusical and unnatural basslines I've ever played on reading gigs have been written by pianists. I always change them and improve them, because pianists tend to write simple basslines so that they don't take up all of their concentration trying to play something rhythmically/melodically complex on the muddy end of the piano They also tend to write lines that feel unnatural to play on a bass due to the fact that they often don't account for positioning etc.

If that is the case, then try and get away from the piano as much as possible and (as someone else mentioned) try and work out a bassline from feel [u]on your bass[/u] - starting with the rhythm first.

Hope that helps!

Edited February 13, 2011 by skej21

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1125959' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:10 PM']Try to sing an idea for a bassline,before you pick up the bass.[/quote]
that would be my advice.

i have the opposite problem to you. i have a dictaphone full of basslines, as i can't (yet) read or write music. i 'sing' it in my head, and then find it, play it and record it in order to 'memorise' it

i'm kind of glad that it's that way round though. i know many excellent musos who learned the 'proper' way of music theory etc., but they look at me blankly if i ask them if they write any of their own stuff.

i know this is a contentious issue, and i'm fully aware of my own lack of skills in matters of theory, but i get the feeling that if i had learned the theory first, the same would happen to me, i would be devoid of inspiration and i'd only end up playing covers (not saying there's anything wrong with that).

try forgetting your standard approach. close your eyes and sing it, whistle it, whatever.

[cytania]

Alot of top bass players used to play brass instruments before they picked up electric bass. You can often hear this in the way they form their notes like a blown note. Brass players call it an 'embouchure', the rest of us call it blowing raspberries. Once I've got a bassline learnt I often go around razzy-ing it out to myself, it's a sort of practice - although out on the road it gets looks from other drivers.

With a piece you're trying to construct a bassline for try to find that beat in you lips or your throat. It should help you get a basic groove even before you think of the notes.

[Eight]

[quote name='icastle' post='1126018' date='Feb 13 2011, 03:05 PM']Well, putting away your books and charts for now would be a start. [/quote]
That's scary. Even scarier is how you knew I have the bloody things everywhere... I guess some things you can't learn from studying.

I appreciate the advice and suggestions you've all given me. Lots to try here.

Just to clarify one point though - I don't write basslines on a piano (never tried - that's what basses are for, right?). I just thought it was important to mention that I'm not completely unmusical/uncreative. Gave up playing keys properly a fair while ago - but if I have some chords or a melody in my head, I'll tend to head for the piano since I can't sing and don't play guitar.

It's hard to describe, but after thinking about a few of the things that have been said, I don't think my brain reacts in the same way with bass yet... IC is probably right. I pick it up and get drawn into thinking too technically.

[BigRedX]

Join a band - unless you already write complete songs and are a half way decent singer and drummer/drum programmer it's the only way your going to develop your bassline writing skills.

As other have said a good bassline is the glue that holds the rhythm and the melody together. It doesn't have to be complex or clever just appropriate for the song. The best way to find this out is to play songs with other musicians. You'll soon find out what works and what doesn't just by playing and listening.

[Eight]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1126038' date='Feb 13 2011, 03:31 PM']i know this is a contentious issue, and i'm fully aware of my own lack of skills in matters of theory, but i get the feeling that if i had learned the theory first, the same would happen to me, i would be devoid of inspiration and i'd only end up playing covers (not saying there's anything wrong with that).[/quote]
I can't blame the theory etc. for this. It seems the problem is that with this instrument, I've neglected to spend time trying to being creative. Without realising, I've probably spent all my time being analytical with bass and haven't learned to express anything through it. Entirely my fault.

Still... at least I've got a better idea what to work on.

[Eight]

[quote name='cytania' post='1126049' date='Feb 13 2011, 03:46 PM']Alot of top bass players used to play brass instruments before they picked up electric bass. You can often hear this in the way they form their notes like a blown note. Brass players call it an 'embouchure', the rest of us call it blowing raspberries. Once I've got a bassline learnt I often go around razzy-ing it out to myself, it's a sort of practice - although out on the road it gets looks from other drivers.[/quote]
I need to learn this. No idea if it'll help, but it sounds like lots of fun.

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1125959' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:10 PM']When you've written a melody or a progression,put the instrument down and just listen. Try to sing an idea for a bassline,before you pick up the bass. This will stop you from falling into your stock patterns,and make for a more interesting line.[/quote]

Excellent advice right there. Whenever I try to get creative with a bassline I often fall into playing the same patterns but singing it first seems to be a way out of this. Pity my singing is woeful though

[Gust0o]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1126051' date='Feb 13 2011, 03:47 PM']Join a band - unless you already write complete songs and are a half way decent singer and drummer/drum programmer it's the only way your going to develop your bassline writing skills.

As other have said a good bassline is the glue that holds the rhythm and the melody together. It doesn't have to be complex or clever just appropriate for the song. The best way to find this out is to play songs with other musicians. You'll soon find out what works and what doesn't just by playing and listening.[/quote]

+1 to this.

[mez6d657a]

You might consider checking out "Improve Your Groove" by Patrick Pfeiffer. I've got it and I really rate it. It sets out to solve exactly the problem you describe. From the author's intro: "I wrote this book because, even after extensive musical training, I found it difficult to create my own grooves without copying my bass heroes note for note. So I embarked on a musical journey to find the secret to what makes a great groove... well... great." There are a few pdf sample pages [url="http://www.bassbooks.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=695&bc=no"]here[/url].

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Eight' post='1125963' date='Feb 13 2011, 02:13 PM']No, I mean any bass lines. Give me an A blues backing for example, and I'll play all the right notes in one of the most boring, unoriginal, repetitive (or at the other end of the spectrum - random) lines you've ever heard.

A solo line (as the lead instrument) would be a lot easier. You can get away with anything then.[/quote]

Who are you listening to? Who plays blues lines that you think are interesting? What are they doing? You'll probably find that they're playing the same lines you are, but their experience and feeling for the song lets them put in interesting variations in just the right place. If you haven't already, try Tommy Shannon (Johnny Winter, Stevie Ray Vaughan), John McVie (John Mayall, early Fleetwood Mac), Harvey Brooks (Electric Flag, Kooper/Stills/Bloomfield Super Sessions).