Early Stranglers/JJ Burnel bass sound on an Ampeg ?

[Algae]

I am wanting to emulate the 1970s JJ Burnel bass sound with my Fender P (a tone like on the first three Stranglers albums). I am not keen on the Ashdown gear that JJB uses nowadays (JJ-500 signature amp and ABM 4x10 cabs) as it is not the same sound as those early Stanglers recordings. His signature sound in the late seventies was using Hiwatt gear. After the demise of that piece of kit he has never really been able to recapture that original sound IMO. That is the challenge !

JJB would not entertain Ampeg gear nowadays as he is a fiercely dedicated to only buying british. Not so myself. I know Ampeg SVT can give a good old school sound so if any of you SVT owners out there can comment that would be great thanks. I am trying to avoid buying a fully valve amp due to the weight so was thinking of a hybrid like the SVT-7 PRO maybe?

If anyone out there can get the sound I am looking for on your gear then please tell !

Thanks.

[timotei]

Thought I'd seen this topic before.
Try this thread, I think it answers your question pretty well
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=107133&hl=stranglers"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...p;hl=stranglers[/url]

[alexclaber]

A key part of the distortion on his early sound was having a hole kicked in the speaker cone.

[Lozz196]

Yeah, wouldn`t recommend that.

Best JJ sound I`ve ever been able to muster was with my Marshall 412 cab. Think a 412, with no tweeters gets this sound nailed. Think JJ used 412s unless I`m mistaken, and as Alex says, with a hole in.

Amp-wise, I can`t see why an Ampeg wouldn`t be able to do it. I`ve managed it so far with two Marshall heads, an Orange Terror, and my TC Classic 450, all into said Marshall cab.

[Algae]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1127120' date='Feb 14 2011, 02:46 PM']Best JJ sound I`ve ever been able to muster was with my Marshall 412 cab.[/quote]

Really? Which model 412 was it ?

[Lozz196]

My Marshall VBC412.

Its an absolute monster, its heavy, unwieldy, but looks awesome, and sounds amazing - real solid lows, bags of low-mid presence, and good high-mids & highs even though there are no tweeters. I think its the Celestion speakers Marshall put in there (no idea which) they just have that "hard" sound which JJ was famed for. Also does a great Bruce Foxton (who also used to use two of these).

[Algae]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1127413' date='Feb 14 2011, 06:32 PM']My Marshall VBC412.

Its an absolute monster, its heavy, unwieldy, but looks awesome, and sounds amazing - real solid lows, bags of low-mid presence, and good high-mids & highs even though there are no tweeters. I think its the Celestion speakers Marshall put in there (no idea which) they just have that "hard" sound which JJ was famed for. Also does a great Bruce Foxton (who also used to use two of these).[/quote]

Sounds good. Shame they don't do it in a 212 to make it easier to lug around.

[chris_b]

Turn the bass off, the top and volume up and whack the strings near the bridge with a pick.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Algae' post='1126926' date='Feb 14 2011, 12:30 PM']....JJB would not entertain Ampeg gear nowadays as he is a fiercely dedicated to only buying british. Not so myself. I know Ampeg SVT can give a good old school sound so if any of you SVT owners out there can comment that would be great thanks....[/quote]
JJ never had an "old school" sound, so if you're trying to emulate him why go for Ampeg? His sound through a Ashdown is probably nearer to his "old" tone than you’ll sound through an Ampeg, so if you are wanting to emulate his sound then I guess you’ll do a better job using the gear he plays.

[alexclaber]

Seriously though, I think you'll have more success with something cheap, small and old where you can really overdrive the speakers than you'll have with any number of fancy cabs. Speaker distortion is such a big part of his sound and you'll only get the distortion if you're pushing the speakers hard enough, and the bigger your cab, the more stupidly loud you'll have to be to get that sound.

Alternatively, I see Lozz is selling that VBC412 which does the JJ sound so well - no more unwieldy than many Ampeg cabs and a bargain to boot!

[phatbass787]

Sounds pretty old school through his Ashdown rig here;

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr2bfrPgXoY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr2bfrPgXoY[/url]

[lojo]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1127014' date='Feb 14 2011, 01:29 PM']A key part of the distortion on his early sound was having a hole kicked in the speaker cone.[/quote]

Well you learn something new everyday, great fact

If anyone wants this mod done to their amp PM me for a price, all work with full years warranty

[Algae]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1128339' date='Feb 15 2011, 01:45 PM'].

Alternatively, I see Lozz is selling that VBC412 which does the JJ sound so well - no more unwieldy than many Ampeg cabs and a bargain to boot![/quote]

It's tempting but a more lightweight option would be good if I can find one. Lozz which cab have you changed to and how does it sound compared to your Marshall ?

Edited February 16, 2011 by Algae

[Lozz196]

I changed to Ampegs, as Fender/Ampeg is, for me, the Holy Grail. Unfortunately, am having to sell those as well, as my band has split, and my back is making me go lightweight.

In terms of sound, the Ampegs have a slightly "warmer" sound than the Marshall. I`m sure that the JJ sound can be coaxed out of Ampeg cabs. Just need to up the mids that bit more. But I think its the Celestion drivers that have that "hardness" to them that make it so easy through the Marshall (Ampegs use Eminence cones). Plus, 12s seem to have that "lower mids" thing going that also help for this sound.

Maybe a 2x12 would be the way forward. Depending on budget, Matamp would be able to do this, and with them you can specify which speakers you want in your cab. Matamp gets good reviews on Basschat.

[chris_b]

[quote name='phatbass787' post='1128495' date='Feb 15 2011, 04:00 PM']....Sounds pretty old school through his Ashdown rig here;....[/quote]
Really? Looks like you've come up with a new definition for the term "old school"!!

Anyway, you're not hearing his Ashdown cabs in this clip. There are no mikes on the cabs so which ever way he's DI'ing you're either hearing the pre or post signal from his amp going through the PA system.

[Algae]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1129365' date='Feb 16 2011, 11:01 AM']I changed to Ampegs, as Fender/Ampeg is, for me, the Holy Grail. Unfortunately, am having to sell those as well, as my band has split, and my back is making me go lightweight.

In terms of sound, the Ampegs have a slightly "warmer" sound than the Marshall. I`m sure that the JJ sound can be coaxed out of Ampeg cabs. Just need to up the mids that bit more. But I think its the Celestion drivers that have that "hardness" to them that make it so easy through the Marshall (Ampegs use Eminence cones). Plus, 12s seem to have that "lower mids" thing going that also help for this sound.

Maybe a 2x12 would be the way forward. Depending on budget, Matamp would be able to do this, and with them you can specify which speakers you want in your cab. Matamp gets good reviews on Basschat.[/quote]

Thanks Lozz , some very useful info there. Lots to think about. Also it's amazing how many bass players end up with bad backs ! They say size is not important but it is when you play bass

[chris_b]

[quote name='Algae' post='1129491' date='Feb 16 2011, 12:17 PM']....it's amazing how many bass players end up with bad backs ! They say size is not important but it is when you play bass....[/quote]
A the owner of one bad back mainly caused by Mesa Boogie Road Ready cabs, the great thing these days is knowing that weight is no longer important.

[Lozz196]

Well I don`t have the bass to blame for my bad back, but carrying the gear doesn`t help it to stay pain free.

Must admit tho, I`m my own worst enemy - I get fretful if I`m "only" playing through a 4x10, yet whenever I see local bands, invariably the bassist has a great sound through a 1x12 or 1x15 combo.

Compromise - lightweight 4x10 for me!

[chris_b]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1129511' date='Feb 16 2011, 12:32 PM']....I get fretful if I`m "only" playing through a 4x10....[/quote]
I started off thinking that way, but then I realised that a neo 410 could go way louder than I needed, so moved to 2 lightweight 210 cabs. A win/win for me.

[Lozz196]

I think its all those years listening to/watching heavy rock bands with walls of amps that makes me feel a 4x10 is being under-dressed.

Annoyingly the range I`m looking at at present, the 4x10 is £380ish, but the 2x10 is £320ish, so two 2x10s not an option - tho would be my preference if comparably priced.

[PaulWarning]

this questions been asked loads of times, once read an interview with JJ and he said he'd tried hundreds of P's over the years and never found one that sounded like the old Green one that broke in half, I've said it before but IMO you can't nail that sound because it was a fluke, if you could JJ would still sound like he did on the the first 3 Stranglers albums and he doesn't, IMO of course

[Algae]

[quote name='PaulWarning' post='1129859' date='Feb 16 2011, 04:36 PM']if you could JJ would still sound like he did on the the first 3 Stranglers albums and he doesn't, IMO of course[/quote]

Yeah but that is my point , JJ can't get the exact sound now because he insists on using British made gear only and will not try other. My thoughts are that maybe with different gear that sound could be acheived hence asking about Ampeg or maybe some other ? A modern Hiwatt perhaps ? Any ideas ?

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='PaulWarning' post='1129859' date='Feb 16 2011, 04:36 PM']this questions been asked loads of times, once read an interview with JJ and he said he'd tried hundreds of P's over the years and never found one that sounded like the old Green one that broke in half, I've said it before but IMO you can't nail that sound because it was a fluke, if you could JJ would still sound like he did on the the first 3 Stranglers albums and he doesn't, IMO of course[/quote]


[quote name='Algae' post='1130689' date='Feb 17 2011, 10:23 AM']Yeah but that is my point , JJ can't get the exact sound now because he insists on using British made gear only and will not try other. My thoughts are that maybe with different gear that sound could be acheived hence asking about Ampeg or maybe some other ? A modern Hiwatt perhaps ? Any ideas ?[/quote]

I think if it were possible to replicate JJ's early sound somebody would have done it by now, and as far as I know nobody has, if somebody knows different I'd love to hear it

[Lozz196]

Yes, spot on. Using various amps through my Marshall VBC 412 has been the nearest I`ve ever been able to get to it, but there was still something not "there" - probably the split cone sound, plus not using a 70s heavy P-Bass with maple neck..

A lot of people seem to forget that there was an incredible amount of presence in JJs sound, which is unlikely to be replicated with 1 or 2 speakers. Plus, there was a lot of bass in there, but because of the distortion and treble, again, this seems to get overlooked. His sound had plenty of bottom end to it.

[lojo]

I posted this yesterday on another thread, its from the era of "that sound"

Obviously there is the mime issue, but is this a bass he was getting that sound from too?

Anyone know the story here, of have I got something wrong?


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6yTRq_rJg4...feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6yTRq_rJg4...feature=related[/url]