Full time cover band

[thumperbob 2002]

I have been playing bass for over 30 years and from the age of 16-32 was a semi-pro ( 4 gigs per wek on average ) to pro musician ( more or less every night )

Having a day job and a few gigs is the way to go. For a pro band ( unless you really are the best of friends and this doesnt change ) you will fall out with your " business partners". Living in other peoples pockets is not good.

Can be good fun but so is learning to drive-you soon get fed up of that.

I now work fulltime in my own business ( mainly working from home ) so I see my family and play 2-3 gigs per month ( which I now love )- no pressure is good. As a pro musician, bricklayer, plumber or barrister- there is always the pressure of the mortgage and family. What you may love now will turn into something you will hate- the gigs are ok- its everything else. Definitely a young single mans game.

[ironside1966]

To make this work, you'll need a function band that can pull £1600 plus per gig, IMO, for a 4 man band, or multiple of £400 per man for anything larger, which in itself isn't that hard..and you'll need to be doing them most weeks the year...which really is.

[/quote]

That’s ridiculers most bands of the bands I know run at a 10% to 15% drawings of their fee when you take out the agents fee off at 15% to 20% and the cost of fuel and the day to day upkeep, promotion and general improvements of a band> Bands need investment. The only way to get more money is if you own the band and pay wages.
Like every business it takes time to build and the fees are not going to be great straight away, a good reliable van and PA are essential and more important treat the band as a business not as a hobby. It is rewarding watching something you are part of grow and some of the best times I have had is at the developing stagers of a band were ever one is enthusiastic.
I am sure you can do it but have realistic expectations on wages and make sure you have an understanding partner, do your homework . Lastly the bands I know are not run by the best musicians but great organizers with a business mind and a feel for what works.
Good luck in whatever you decide

Edited February 15, 2011 by ironside1966

[purpleblob]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1128277' date='Feb 15 2011, 01:04 PM']For the OP..if it is something he wants to do then do it...just know there are two sides to the story.[/quote]

This is a totally fair point, most/all of us need to pay the bills and not everyone will earn enough, certainly not to begin with and possibly ever. It's not all good times whatever you do.

To just back the "not all good times" comment up and to follow on from my previous post I should say I earned next to nothing for at least two years and had to stack shelves in a supermarket at night on weekends to keep my business afloat - unless the OP has enough money to cover them when work is thin, taking another job may be an option (unless somebdoy is going to support you), but beware that you don't find the part-time job turns into the full-time job and then stops you doing what you wanted to do.

[woodster]

Some really good, valid posts in this thread...

From my own experience,

[b]You CAN earn enough to pay the bills[/b] - but be prepared to put the hours in, including travelling, homework or lesson prep if you teach.

[b]I spend many hours alone in my car[/b] - driving to sessions or gigs which may be miles away can be a lonely business.

[b]Your family DO suffer[/b] - I've had to cancel many family events over the years. NOT 'coz i just HAD to do the gig/session but 'coz the money was too good, or too needed, to turn down. Also the early morning school run is not ideal if you only got home at 4am after a gig.

[b]Money is ALWAYS an issue[/b] - unlike 9-5'ers, you can never be sure where the next paycheck is coming from.

There have been good points made about letting down bandmates, or them letting YOU down. If your saturday night, £400, corporate gig gets cancelled coz your guitard's car broke down, there is a very good chance that money has gone and there's no way for you to get it back.

Don't get me wrong, I love my job, but it's just like any other job.... Sometimes you have to go 'into the office' when you don't want to or work with people you don't get along with. Previous posts have mentioned the lack of sick pay, holiday pay and pension benefits, If I don't work, I don't earn, simple as that.

Turning your hobby into something you HAVE to do is a big step so be sure before you leap.

[Mog]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='1128313' date='Feb 15 2011, 01:30 PM']Lastly the bands I know are not run by the best musicians but great organizers with a business mind and a feel for what works.[/quote]

That right there could be the best thing posted in this thread. Spot on sir.

[lojo]

Id say, unless you are in a position to be a pro, much like doddy and Jakesbass on here, covering all basses (sorry for the pun)

Then, you had best stick to your day job, and progress the covers band idea within that, if you start to do well, you can perhaps alter you day job then, into something part time or less, but initially stick to it


My day job is not music, but I am self employed, so I have all the same issues the music pros on here have, like nothing is long term, no holiday, sick pay or pension from the company, and often have to make choices as to what to agree to, then if something better comes up turn it down and stick to what you have already promised etc

So don't burn your bridges, progress your day job, and passionately pursue the music and see if it takes over, don't jump to early

You may even find, if music was your day job, you might not like it as much

[arthurhenry]

It's not all or nothing. I've never managed to do it full time, though I would love to, but i did make £6-8000 per year from mostly weekend gigs. I cleaned windows during the day, which meant I could pay the bills and be free to gig whenever I needed to. Despite my degree (non musical), I've always made sure I've done fairly menial self employed day jobs so music can come first. It'd be a lot harder if I was tied to a "proper job".

[Gareth Hughes]

Few things I'd like to respond to - mainly because I'm reading a lot of negative comments here.

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='1128283' date='Feb 15 2011, 01:10 PM']What you may love now will turn into something you will hate- the gigs are ok- its everything else. Definitely a young single mans game.[/quote]

With respect - I disagree, and I'm glad I can. You're right - what you may love now might become something you hate. Is that a reason to not do it? I had a lot of great relationships that eventually ending up sucking. I still loves the women. And it's most definitely not a young single mans game. A guy I've had the pleasure of working with just retired from the road, after raising [b]NINE[/b] kids solely on a musicians wage, and has toured the world many times with many huge acts - chances are you've seen him play but you'd never know his name. And he's just turned 65.

It's like anything - be good at what you do and you'll keep doing it.


[quote name='woodster' post='1128384' date='Feb 15 2011, 02:29 PM']From my own experience,

[b]You CAN earn enough to pay the bills[/b] - but be prepared to put the hours in, including travelling, homework or lesson prep if you teach.

[b]I spend many hours alone in my car[/b] - driving to sessions or gigs which may be miles away can be a lonely business.

[b]Your family DO suffer[/b] - I've had to cancel many family events over the years. NOT 'coz i just HAD to do the gig/session but 'coz the money was too good, or too needed, to turn down. Also the early morning school run is not ideal if you only got home at 4am after a gig.

[b]Money is ALWAYS an issue[/b] - unlike 9-5'ers, you can never be sure where the next paycheck is coming from.[/quote]

All of the above quotes can be said of ANY job. The first three apply to my mum alone - and she works for the education board!!!! As for money - sure it can be an issue, and I worry about money a lot. BUT I keep telling myself - you've been worrying about this for 13 years now, so stop bloody worrying because the bills have ALWAYS been paid. My dad used to worry about what I do in the early days. He was a teacher all his working life. That's fine - in his day (early 70's) if you got a teaching job that was a job for life. Today's teachers? I'll bet a panto run lasts longer than some teaching jobs.

This had been the most enlightening perspective here yet:

[quote name='purpleblob' post='1128235' date='Feb 15 2011, 12:33 PM']...might I just make an obvious point (if it's not been made already) that playing music for a living is not much different to becoming a self-employed plumber, software dev, cleaner or whatever.[/quote]

It is a job - and that is something that seems to deter folks, or make them think they'll lose their love for it, or the magic will disappear,etc. I totally respect that. Maybe that will happen to me someday, but it hasn't so far, and lordy knows there's been enough opportunities for that to happen.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Gareth Hughes' post='1128757' date='Feb 15 2011, 07:19 PM']. A guy I've had the pleasure of working with just retired from the road, after raising [b]NINE[/b] kids solely on a musicians wage, and has toured the world many times with many huge acts - chances are you've seen him play but you'd never know his name. And he's just turned 65.[/quote]

Raising or fathering?

Edited February 15, 2011 by dave_bass5

[BottomE]

There are some great experiences on here - all valid and unique. Thanks for sharing them.

I was lucky enough to go pro by accident. A chance phone call and a 6 month gig in Dubai in a very posh hotel literally fell into my lap. I then fell into a "circuit" and became known to agents and the whole thing was self sustaining. The main thing that came out of it for me was that it was 75% personality and 25% ability that made the thing work or not work. The bands that did well were the ones that were organised and knew what was required. You can learn on the job and its a great way to accelerate your learning because you will be playing songs that you wouldn't naturally play. And end up liking some of them as well (thinks of a particularly good Neil Sedaka song)! Now i have a proper job and play semi pro - probably 7 gigs a month and am involved in a couple of original projects and am equally as happy with my musical journey. The status of pro or not makes no difference i think its more about finding the right outlets at the right time for your music.

[gub]

I gave up my full time job in 88 to become a self emplyed musician ,i was only 20 at the time and it was a blast ! we got to travel around europe doing amaerican airforce basses ,for most of the time and big social clubs over in wales and up shefield ,midlans etc ,at the time it paid us enough to live onb and buy a new tour bus with all the comforts ,we were doing 95% covers at the time which was duran ,level 42 , paul young etc . i know times wre different back then ,clubs like that used to pack them in and i dont recon those airbases even exist now, shame as it was awesome !

[woodster]

[quote name='Gareth Hughes' post='1128757' date='Feb 15 2011, 07:19 PM']Few things I'd like to respond to - mainly because I'm reading a lot of negative comments here.[/quote]


My post was not intended to be negative, I love my job. I was just trying to illustrate that it's not ALWAYS fun.



[quote name='Gareth Hughes' post='1128757' date='Feb 15 2011, 07:19 PM']All of the above quotes can be said of ANY job.[/quote]

Thats what I was saying, being a pro musician IS just like ANY job

[thumperbob 2002]

Really a reply to gareth. My comments were negative I agree. I suppose everyone here will have different experiences of work and music or both together as a living. I really respect people on here that go pro and make a positive, creative life. Wish I could have been satisfied with it but I suppose I wanted more from life. Lots of pro musicians I know -some name successful chart acts too- struggle after years in the business with not much to show for it. I didn't want to be one of them. I think I have the best of both worlds now with a successful business and a few gigs a month with some great guys ( and musicians ).

I still think it is a young mans game being pro. Some years ago I used to have nightmares I was still in a pro band and wake up sweating!! Just the thought I was still doing it fills me with terror!! It was obviously not for me but that does not mean it is not right for others- I would say to the OP try it- you only live once!!

[Gareth Hughes]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1128770' date='Feb 15 2011, 07:27 PM']Raising or fathering?[/quote]

Raising.

[Gareth Hughes]

[quote name='woodster' post='1128828' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:09 PM']My post was not intended to be negative, I love my job. I was just trying to illustrate that it's not ALWAYS fun.[/quote]

Apologies for singling your post out to respond to - nothing personal. And I completely agree with you - it isn't always fun. But what is? Expecting music to be fun all the time is completely unrealistic. The two hours onstage are fun - the rest varies.

My concern is that I don't like thinking of that as a factor for not doing it. It's a very personal decision to pursue anything in life. For me it boils down to 'what works for me might not work for you and that's cool'.

I consider myself equally blessed and cursed that I have the temperament and disposition that makes the life of a gigging musician something that is very attractive to me. For me, I just know I don't have it in me to do anything else.

Here's how I summed it up with my dad when I was 17 and he was constantly asking 'what do you want to do with your life?', seemingly ignoring the million times I told him I wanted to play music. I said 'Ok dad, I'll go to university, get a degree and work towards getting a good secure job'. Slight pause while he breathed in a sigh of relief. Then 'And then you'll die and I'll be stuck doing something I hate. Sound good to you?' We never argued about what I'd do again.

My point is that if you want to do this, and feel it's the only thing you can do that makes you happy, then there's a lot of ways that it can be done.

[woodster]

No worries buddy.

Believe me, I've spent many hours behind the wheel, on stage in the middle of nowhere or sat on the floor of a studio struggling for inspiration thinking "why am I doing this?".

But then I have an amazing gig or great session and I know why!!!

Edited February 15, 2011 by woodster

[lowdown]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='1128855' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:25 PM']Lots of pro musicians I know -some name successful chart acts too- struggle after years in the business with not much to show for it.
I still think it is a young mans game being pro.[/quote]

Its not at all a young mans game. [ Maybe a full on covers band - if they still exist]
Look at any TV band [not that many granted], look at many the of show/pit/ bands/Orchestras, Classical Orchestras...full of people up to their retiring age. Being a full time Musician has many sides to it these days. At one time it was easy just to play only Bass or what ever and earn. Gigs , shows, sessions, tours, 6 night a week Residencies, pub Residencies, cruises, name act tours or being in their bands, hotel residencies, millions of holiday camp gigs, they were all easy available.
Now days folks do all kinds besides just their first instrument. Some teach, some do arranging, some turning midi files into school band charts, some orchestrating parts for films and shows, some supplying media music for broadcast and production/library companies [earning broadcast royalties], some writing for TV etc, some fixing or agents even, Music techs, the list goes on. Its all part of being a full time musician in this day and age. Just being a pro Bass player alone in the traditional sense is not going to sustain you a great life span in the business of music anymore, unless you are something very special, or just want to get by financially.
Look at Guy Pratt these days, Bassist, Media Music writer and part time [music business stories] comedian.

To the OP , good luck with it all. If thats what you really want, work hard and go for it.
I did at 17 and 35 years later still living nicely,
Oh and with a wife and family including the holidays, own house and a decent car - and have never eaten a pot noodle in my life.


Garry

[lollington]

Thank you for all the replies. It's been interesting reading all of your posts, and it's certainly shed some light into how things work.

It seems pretty variable, and like all jobs, I suppose you've got to be determined and willing to make the whole thing work out to be worthwhile. Although I don't doubt I can muster the effort involved in make a living as a musician, I'm not sure it's the right direction to take at the moment.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1128186' date='Feb 15 2011, 11:58 AM']When I see one of my old mates who has a nice job at a building society,nice-ish house,car family etc. he never seems particularly happy and is just plodding along.[/quote]

I found this particularly amusing, seeing how I've worked in a building society for the last five years! Having had a pretty rotten few days in the office, band practice tonight has really bucked me up. It seems fair to tell you, after you've all been so honest and helpful to me, I've decided to stick with the 9-5. I'm lucky enough to have a hobby in music. So long as I have a day job that can sustain this, I'll be happy.

Would playing music full time spoil this fun? Perhaps so.

Being fortunate enough to have a full time job with guaranteed income, decent pension and sick pay benefits seems a little daft to throw away, no matter how boring it is. But then I guess this is the mentality I inherited from working in the financial services.

In thirty years from now will I regret [i]not[/i] doing something more enjoyable for a living? Definitely. But so long as I can have fun when the tie comes off, for now I'm satisfied.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='lollington' post='1129139' date='Feb 16 2011, 01:20 AM']Thank you for all the replies. It's been interesting reading all of your posts, and it's certainly shed some light into how things work.

It seems pretty variable, and like all jobs, I suppose you've got to be determined and willing to make the whole thing work out to be worthwhile. Although I don't doubt I can muster the effort involved in make a living as a musician, I'm not sure it's the right direction to take at the moment.



I found this particularly amusing, seeing how I've worked in a building society for the last five years! Having had a pretty rotten few days in the office, band practice tonight has really bucked me up. It seems fair to tell you, after you've all been so honest and helpful to me, I've decided to stick with the 9-5. I'm lucky enough to have a hobby in music. So long as I have a day job that can sustain this, I'll be happy.

Would playing music full time spoil this fun? Perhaps so.

Being fortunate enough to have a full time job with guaranteed income, decent pension and sick pay benefits seems a little daft to throw away, no matter how boring it is. But then I guess this is the mentality I inherited from working in the financial services.

In thirty years from now will I regret [i]not[/i] doing something more enjoyable for a living? Definitely. But so long as I can have fun when the tie comes off, for now I'm satisfied.[/quote]

I am in financial services too pal- own my own Investment Company ( long story ). The benefit you have is that you could take a few years off to work pro music and then easily get back into Financial Services ( certainly in two years when most finance professionals will need the new exams and half of them retire because they cant pass them!! ) I find- having had what can only be described as a "chequered career"- that the more life experience you have- best to do it at a young age- the better. Take those rat race blinkers off!!

Then again with a guaranteed salary etc and the extra monies from a few gigs per month no doubt pressure from the financial side of life can be reduced!! And also when you have a bad week at work you can look forward to a good gig and solely do not depend upon one occupation as such.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='lowdown' post='1129031' date='Feb 15 2011, 10:41 PM']Its not at all a young mans game. [ Maybe a full on covers band - if they still exist]
Look at any TV band [not that many granted], look at many the of show/pit/ bands/Orchestras, Classical Orchestras...full of people up to their retiring age. Being a full time Musician has many sides to it these days. At one time it was easy just to play only Bass or what ever and earn. Gigs , shows, sessions, tours, 6 night a week Residencies, pub Residencies, cruises, name act tours or being in their bands, hotel residencies, millions of holiday camp gigs, they were all easy available.
Now days folks do all kinds besides just their first instrument. Some teach, some do arranging, some turning midi files into school band charts, some orchestrating parts for films and shows, some supplying media music for broadcast and production/library companies [earning broadcast royalties], some writing for TV etc, some fixing or agents even, Music techs, the list goes on. Its all part of being a full time musician in this day and age. Just being a pro Bass player alone in the traditional sense is not going to sustain you a great life span in the business of music anymore, unless you are something very special, or just want to get by financially.
Look at Guy Pratt these days, Bassist, Media Music writer and part time [music business stories] comedian.

To the OP , good luck with it all. If thats what you really want, work hard and go for it.
I did at 17 and 35 years later still living nicely,
Oh and with a wife and family including the holidays, own house and a decent car - and have never eaten a pot noodle in my life.


Garry[/quote]
The OP was referring to a full time covers band in the post- Its a young mans game.

[lowdown]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='1129204' date='Feb 16 2011, 08:10 AM']The OP was referring to a full time covers band in the post- Its a young mans game.[/quote]

And i did say on my opening line - Its not at all a young mans game. [[b] Maybe a full on covers band[/b] - if they still exist]



Garry

Edited February 16, 2011 by lowdown

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='lowdown' post='1129316' date='Feb 16 2011, 10:15 AM']And i did say on my opening line - Its not at all a young mans game. [[b] Maybe a full on covers band[/b] - if they still exist]



Garry[/quote]

Too true my friend.

Bob

[Skol303]

Can't say I have experience of this myself. But friends of mine who have made the leap into full-time gigging have had mixed experiences: some good, but mostly bad I'm sorry to say.

The biggest 'risk' (aside from income) seems to be turning a hobby that you love dearly into a badly paid job that you might end up hating even more than your current day job...

Just saying.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='Skol303' post='1129607' date='Feb 16 2011, 01:33 PM']Can't say I have experience of this myself. But friends of mine who have made the leap into full-time gigging have had mixed experiences: some good, but mostly bad I'm sorry to say.

The biggest 'risk' (aside from income) seems to be turning a hobby that you love dearly into a badly paid job that you might end up hating even more than your current day job...

Just saying.[/quote]

And doing a lot more hours than a normal day job too......been there, done that.

[pnefc42]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1127901' date='Feb 15 2011, 06:58 AM']Too many people plod along and live for a piss up on Saturday night and a two week holiday in Benidorm.[/quote]

Don't knock it mate - thats where the demand for 99% of gigs comes from!

Cheers
Dave