Practicing theory in drop-tuning

[chugster]

Can anyone offer me advice on practicing and learning theory, scales, etc in drop-tuning? Maybe I'm complicating things in my head but any tricks to easily visualise the relationships between notes on the fretboardin such tunings would be appreciated. At the moment, I haven't been playing long and so I've been learning theory in standard tuning but have to use Drop c# in the band I'm playing in.

Any tips (other than "don't use drop tuning") would be appreciated!

[jakenewmanbass]

I don't use drop tuning myself but would think it's simply a question of learning the note relationships as they appear with the new tuning ie if you want to play diatonically (scale wise) then find the fingerings that make that possible and learn them.

[Bilbo]

If by drop tuning you mean the four strings have the same relationships to each other as the normal tuning (i.e. fourths), but down a minor third, then everything will be the same except where the notes are on the neck. i.e. a major scale will be the same shape as it was on a conventional bass but will start on a different fret. If you are tuning to an open tuning, then you're on your own

[chugster]

We use C# G# C# F#. So no, the four strings don't have the same relationships, I'm afraid!

[SteveK]

I understand the need for drop tuning, but I can't figure what advantage there is for C# G# C# F# tuning.
You say you haven't been playing long...I can't help thinking you're making a rod for your own back. Not sure how much harder you could make it for yourself

[Doddy]

Even though you are in a different tuning,the theory remains the same.
Learn the fingerboard in whatever key you are using and you'll be able to apply the theory to it. The notes in a particular scale or chord will still be the same whatever tuning you use.
If,however,you are looking for shapes and patterns,then you're on your own.

[robocorpse]

[quote name='SteveK' post='1133160' date='Feb 19 2011, 10:42 AM']I understand the need for drop tuning, but I can't figure what advantage there is for C# G# C# F# tuning.[/quote]

Its a guitarists technique that the bassist has to follow to make it easier on the ensemble.
If you tune down a 6 stringer and drop the low E another 2 semitones, you have an open powerchord in ridiculously low tuning, and thousands of metal bands use this technique, many through laziness, but it has become a style in its own right, as a load of the more floppy-haired type metalcore bands discovered Major 9ths a while ago, and its easier to play these on a guitar with the low E dropped 2 semitones...

[Eight]

Re-tune to standard C tuning and all your scales etc. become the same (just the root notes move to different places on the neck). Or get a 5-string I suppose.

I hate drop-tunings for this very reason.

[SteveK]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='1133236' date='Feb 19 2011, 11:54 AM']Its a guitarists technique that the bassist has to follow to make it easier on the ensemble.[/quote]
Why?
I totally understand why a guitarist would use such a tuning. But why a bass player? He won't be playing open power chords...will he? The same notes are available, he just has to reach them in an unorthodox fashion, which would make study bloody hard work.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='SteveK' post='1133368' date='Feb 19 2011, 02:01 PM']Why?
I totally understand why a guitarist would use such a tuning. But why a bass player? He won't be playing open power chords...will he? The same notes are available, he just has to reach them in an unorthodox fashion, which would make study bloody hard work.[/quote]
+1

If you really need the low C# then either drop tune C#F#BE (or even BEAD) or get a five string. Otherwise you're just making it harder for yourself with no clear advantage.

[robocorpse]

[quote name='SteveK' post='1133368' date='Feb 19 2011, 02:01 PM']Why?
I totally understand why a guitarist would use such a tuning. But why a bass player? He won't be playing open power chords...will he? The same notes are available, he just has to reach them in an unorthodox fashion, which would make study bloody hard work.[/quote]

On the other hand, it makes it a lot easier if all the strung instruments are playing in the same tuning and same positions so showing each other stuff is easier, especially if the band aren't all seasoned pros with 20 years of theory behind them, which is most of them. Cast your mind back to the level of someone who has only been playing a year or 2 and is trying to work out songs with a guitarist in drop tuning, and look at it from their point of view.

[Doddy]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='1134520' date='Feb 20 2011, 05:01 PM']On the other hand, it makes it a lot easier if all the strung instruments are playing in the same tuning and same positions so showing each other stuff is easier, especially if the band aren't all seasoned pros with 20 years of theory behind them, which is most of them. Cast your mind back to the level of someone who has only been playing a year or 2 and is trying to work out songs with a guitarist in drop tuning, and look at it from their point of view.[/quote]

On the other hand,you could use your ears and play the same notes rather than just copying fingering
patterns. It's way more beneficial to listen and learn than to just copy a pattern. If you play with any
instrument that isn't guitar,you won't be able to copy patterns and positions.
I've got no problem if people want to use some crazy tunings,but a C will always be a C no matter what the tuning. As long
as you know where the notes are on the 'board,in whatever tuning you are in, then there shouldn't be any problems.

[drewm]

The last band I played in, both the guitarists tuned down a tone to D. I've no idea why, but it seamed to please them. Maybe they wanted flappy strings or something. I switched to a 5 string to give me access to a low D and all was well.

The most annoying thing was that they'd refer to all their chords as if they hadn't dropped the tuning. So they'd say "this one's in G" because they were playing a G shape chord, when really it was in F.

As you may have gathered, the band didn't last long

Edited February 20, 2011 by drewm

[Doddy]

[quote name='drewm' post='1134593' date='Feb 20 2011, 06:08 PM']The most annoying thing was that they'd refer to all their chords as if they hadn't dropped the tuning. So they'd say "this one's in G" because they were playing a G shape chord, when really it was in F.[/quote]

That's a pet hate of mine.
Like I've said before,if you play with a keyboard player or horns and you refer to your chords like this
there will be some serious train wrecks.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='1134520' date='Feb 20 2011, 05:01 PM']... it makes it a lot easier if all the strung instruments are playing in the same tuning and same positions so showing each other stuff is easier[/quote]
... but it makes it even easier if everyone knows the note and chord names and also uses their ears.

Edited February 20, 2011 by EssentialTension

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='drewm' post='1134593' date='Feb 20 2011, 06:08 PM']The most annoying thing was that they'd refer to all their chords as if they hadn't dropped the tuning. So they'd say "this one's in G" because they were playing a G shape chord, when really it was in F.[/quote]
I've heard that mistake when a capo is being used too. So frustrating.

[chugster]

Thanks for all your input - It's good to see that there are many differnet opinions on this! As mentioned, since I haven't been playing long, it does make it a lot easier to have the same tuning as the guitarist so he can easily show me the parts. On the other hand, I appreciate that this makes it harder for me to improvise with anything I have learned in standard tuning! Also, I have thought about tuning to standard C tuning but am worried this would make the material even harder to play with more movement around the neck required. I guess I'll just have to deal with switching between standard for learning and Drop tuning for band playing until I have been playing longer.

[Doddy]

Playing in drop tuning shouldn't make it harder to improvise unless you are working purely by patterns. If you know the notes a on the 'board and their relationship(not by a fingering pattern),then you should still be able to play the same stuff if you want. A Cmajor scale always has the same notes in it regardless of the tuning. You may have to finger it differently,but the notes remain the same.

[chugster]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1136945' date='Feb 22 2011, 12:07 PM']Playing in drop tuning shouldn't make it harder to improvise unless you are working purely by patterns. If you know the notes a on the 'board and their relationship(not by a fingering pattern),then you should still be able to play the same stuff if you want. A Cmajor scale always has the same notes in it regardless of the tuning. You may have to finger it differently,but the notes remain the same.[/quote]


Looks like the best thing is for me to find a way to learn that focuses more on the notes than patterns. Any suggestions of particular sources for learning in such a way without being bombarded too quickly with mountains of music theory?

[Doddy]

First,learn the notes on the fingerboard-to me this is essential,no matter if you are in standard tuning or some crazy dropped tuning.Then I'd suggest learning a C major scale in various positions. I say C major because it has no sharps of flats. When you are really comfortable with this,move on to G major (one sharp) and do the same. Move around the circle of fifths so you are adding one extra sharp or flat each time.