Hearing your rig played by another bass player

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1133923' date='Feb 20 2011, 12:27 AM']It's a shame I'm in the middle of you two, Jose needs to try a pre EB and the OP needs to gig a fretted 4 and 5.
Evil, Me, Nah [/quote]


Because of you, oh evil one I have in my mind that I need to try some preEB ones to satisfy my curiosity.
The problem is if I find a cream, black, or natural one that feels and sounds even 1% better than my 2002... I will buy it. I'm in the middle of finding out whether we get funding for another 5 years, and if I do... there'll be no stopping me

[stingrayPete1977]

You might not like them Jose you never know? If you like or can at least put up with a Sub slab body but with a proper 2 band EQ, Mutes and the best neck profile I have ever played then I think you might like them though. Mine sounds amazing, You could probably say it would lack in some areas compared to your modded ones but its core sound is awesome! I cant really understand exactly what it is as mine is only the normal later style 79> pre amp the same as the EB's up until recent times even then its only the board type rather than the components that have changed. It must be all the little things added together, Different pup windings, Slab body, Bit more bridge mass and thumb screws, Flat frets and the Glossy neck that come together for the original Ray sound. Lets hope your funding comes good, If your ever passing through the midlands you are more than welcome to drop in and try it just dont try leaving me with one of your OLP's in its case!

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1134540' date='Feb 20 2011, 05:19 PM']You might not like them Jose you never know? If you like or can at least put up with a Sub slab body but with a proper 2 band EQ, Mutes and the best neck profile I have ever played then I think you might like them though. Mine sounds amazing, You could probably say it would lack in some areas compared to your modded ones but its core sound is awesome! I cant really understand exactly what it is as mine is only the normal later style 79> pre amp the same as the EB's up until recent times even then its only the board type rather than the components that have changed. It must be all the little things added together, Different pup windings, Slab body, Bit more bridge mass and thumb screws, Flat frets and the Glossy neck that come together for the original Ray sound. Lets hope your funding comes good, If your ever passing through the midlands you are more than welcome to drop in and try it just dont try leaving me with one of your OLP's in its case! [/quote]


Slab body is not a problem. My SUB5 has a slab body and it's just fine. I've been using it a lot too lately, no issues for me. I'd love the mutes (one of the attractive features). Neck profile... we'll see. I love the modern Stingray profile, it's like it was made with my taste in mind or something. Is it very different on the preEB? How so? thinner, thicker, deeper, shallower?
Not ultra keen on the glossy neck. I feel this could be the deal breaker for me. But until I try one or five I reserve further judgement, as one does when hasn't got direct experience. Well most do

The only mod I did to my SR4 was the John East preamp. The SUB5 is unmodified.

I'm looking for excuses to travel near where you are to have a chance to meet you and share some Stingray love (no sleazy overtones intended! )
I could even bring my fave OLP. Just for fun, I suspect you'd notice it very quickly if I left it in your '79 Ray's place

[stingrayPete1977]

The pre EB neck is very similar to the newer ones, I was expecting it to be old skool Phat and clumsy with a really high action being the best it could do as most of my vintage bass interaction has been with Fenders and mostly turned out that way but as soon as I tried it I couldnt beleive how slim the profile was! The truss rod needed tweaking to lower the releif but Nick from Nicks guitars had been using it himself for gigs with flats on and liked it that way, His own bitsa Ray was setup similar (OMG you should of heard how good it was with flat Jose!). He removed the allen bolt bit and cleaned/lubed it for me too before adjusting it to a very small amount of releif which it has retained nearly a year later no problems.

The glossy neck was exactly my next concern too (Your post above sounds almost exactly like the conversation I had with EBS freak Russ on the way up there) Im not a fan of sticky Fender glossy necks and linking that with what I though could be a horrid C shape neck profile I was worried all the searching would be for nothing, But again as soon as I tried it I loved it, Its not got that dragging feel you get with some finished necks at all.

Next time your heading over the border Jose send me a pm and we will see what we can arrange

[stingrayPete1977]

Sorry what was this thread about? Oh yeah your own rig, Stingrays are ace etc etc etc.... Only a slight Hijack

[paul_5]

Loads of other players use my rig all the time. Mine is 'in situ' at my church, and players plug into that whenever they like. I've had 75 Jazz reissues, new Jazzes, Warwicks and cheaper, copy basses through it, they all sound good. Still think my Blade B15 has a killer sound though. Miked it up for some recordings a while ago and it sings, love it.

[citymariner]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1133381' date='Feb 19 2011, 02:14 PM']To the OP;

Just a thought - have you heard your own bass from the distance the audience hear it ? is it possible that sound may be different to the sound experienced up close to the rig ?[/quote]

This.

I got a Line 6 Relay G50 rig and thought I'd go for a wander during a sound check. The pub was already getting pretty full so waded through to a place I would stand if I was watching. I've been tempted of late getting rid of my Ashdown gear and going for the RH450 TCE head and cabs, however, after hearing it as the audience would hear it I'm certainly not selling even though the TCE gear is a couple of league above my Ashdown gear.

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1134615' date='Feb 20 2011, 06:27 PM']The pre EB neck is very similar to the newer ones, I was expecting it to be old skool Phat and clumsy with a really high action being the best it could do as most of my vintage bass interaction has been with Fenders and mostly turned out that way but as soon as I tried it I couldnt beleive how slim the profile was! The truss rod needed tweaking to lower the releif but Nick from Nicks guitars had been using it himself for gigs with flats on and liked it that way, His own bitsa Ray was setup similar (OMG you should of heard how good it was with flat Jose!). He removed the allen bolt bit and cleaned/lubed it for me too before adjusting it to a very small amount of releif which it has retained nearly a year later no problems.

The glossy neck was exactly my next concern too (Your post above sounds almost exactly like the conversation I had with EBS freak Russ on the way up there) Im not a fan of sticky Fender glossy necks and linking that with what I though could be a horrid C shape neck profile I was worried all the searching would be for nothing, But again as soon as I tried it I loved it, Its not got that dragging feel you get with some finished necks at all.

Next time your heading over the border Jose send me a pm and we will see what we can arrange [/quote]


I will, I will

ok. Thread hijack over

[alexclaber]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1133486' date='Feb 19 2011, 03:40 PM']That doesnt really make sense either though does it? Your drummer and the other bassists are still all different people to each other and I have played in bands that have drummers that are also possibly better bass players than the ones in the other bands that appeared that night.[/quote]

Confused?!

My point was that your sound onstage will differ from your sound FOH (even without a PA support). And that if you keep the rig the same but change the player and the bass, its changing the musician that will tend to have more effect upon sound than changing the instrument, when taken in the context of the whole mix. The most simplistic example of this is if one player inherently plucks a little harder and thus pops out of the mix more because they're slightly louder. Another example is where one player is more on top of the beat they'll cut through more - or conversely where a player sits back on the beat they'll get away with playing quite a lot louder without the rest of the band automatically playing louder and the volume level spiralling upwards, so they can be louder onstage and thus louder outfront. And with bass guitar louder is almost always better (if your tone, time and taste are right!) Or if your groove, feel and tone is absolutely dead on you can be hugely loud and the band will settle into your massive sound because subconciously they'll sink into your gloriously enveloping tone (check Wille Weeks on Donny Hathaway - Live, for a great example of this). Material for another article methinks...

If on recording the FOH sound and finding your sound is worse than the other bassist's with a different rig, then my first reaction would not be to buy a new bass but to change what you're doing with the current bass and rig. I've had a long habit of recording gigs to see how the band sounded from the audience position and it tells you a huge amount, especially in smaller venues when the monitoring is rather sketchy.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1133819' date='Feb 19 2011, 09:33 PM']I once owned a Jazz bass copy by Vintage that I had modified with a metal scratchplate (helped screening, it was very quiet) and a series/parallel switch. It was very nice. But I sold it. Moved on.

Fast forward a couple of years, and I'm in the same situation you describe. We're the last band to play, I agreed to provide bas amplification. One of the bands was ok, the other one was overall better and as I do, I pay attention to the bass. It sounded very good. Then I realised... it was the guy I sold the bass to, that was my old bass indeed!!!
I didn't imagine that bass sounded as good as that!!!
I told him if he ever wanted to sell it, to call me. He said he doubts it'll happen any time soon.

So there i was, playing my Stingray (which I love and won't change for anything, I must add!) thinking "damn, that Vintage sounded great! And I sold it for peanuts!" [/quote]



If it makes you feel better, I give that bass a lot of love I've had a few other compliments on the sound of the Vintage---the very first gig we did had a bass playing soundman who raved about it. I really, really like the added switching you add to it---makes it really punchy.

To be fair, your stingray sounded damn good that night too!

Cheers

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1135193' date='Feb 21 2011, 10:33 AM']Confused?!

My point was that your sound onstage will differ from your sound FOH (even without a PA support). And that if you keep the rig the same but change the player and the bass, its changing the musician that will tend to have more effect upon sound than changing the instrument, when taken in the context of the whole mix. The most simplistic example of this is if one player inherently plucks a little harder and thus pops out of the mix more because they're slightly louder. Another example is where one player is more on top of the beat they'll cut through more - or conversely where a player sits back on the beat they'll get away with playing quite a lot louder without the rest of the band automatically playing louder and the volume level spiralling upwards, so they can be louder onstage and thus louder outfront. And with bass guitar louder is almost always better (if your tone, time and taste are right!) Or if your groove, feel and tone is absolutely dead on you can be hugely loud and the band will settle into your massive sound because subconciously they'll sink into your gloriously enveloping tone (check Wille Weeks on Donny Hathaway - Live, for a great example of this). Material for another article methinks...

If on recording the FOH sound and finding your sound is worse than the other bassist's with a different rig, then my first reaction would not be to buy a new bass but to change what you're doing with the current bass and rig. I've had a long habit of recording gigs to see how the band sounded from the audience position and it tells you a huge amount, especially in smaller venues when the monitoring is rather sketchy.[/quote]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1133470' date='Feb 19 2011, 03:30 PM']Your best indication is to record the gig with a single mic in the audience and then you can hear how your sound compares to the other bassists'. Listening to your drummer playing your rig won't really tell you anything - the player is a far larger variable than any of the equipment.[/quote]

Im confused too?!
So what you going to do then to find out how they played differently to you to adjust your playing style to get this improved sound?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1135899' date='Feb 21 2011, 05:57 PM']Im confused too?!
So what you going to do then to find out how they played differently to you to adjust your playing style to get this improved sound?[/quote]

Watch and listen to how they play. Then listen to and compare the two recordings. Note where (if) they sound better than you. Then experiment with your playing both when practising at home, in rehearsals and at gigs, record as much as possible, and find how different changes in your playing affect your tone. Also note how your respective bandmates affect your respective tones by listening to the space they leave for you both - you'll never sound great if you're fighting the rest of the band!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1135940' date='Feb 21 2011, 06:29 PM']Watch and listen to how they play. Then listen to and compare the two recordings. Note where (if) they sound better than you. Then experiment with your playing both when practising at home, in rehearsals and at gigs, record as much as possible, and find how different changes in your playing affect your tone. Also note how your respective bandmates affect your respective tones by listening to the space they leave for you both - you'll never sound great if you're fighting the rest of the band![/quote]

I can't see that working Alex, Different songs and possible different style of music being played by a whole bunch of different musicians. Sounds easier to just buy a Stingray to me

[LITTLEWING]

Jus to add my ten pence worth, I recently acquired a Vintage Stingray and yes, they do make rather good guitars and if their 'Ray is anything to go by I can't wait to get a real one. That fat burpy growl is just beautiful. and if that's what the crowd hears then that's alright by me. The only thing is, getting a long cable and going FOH during rehearsal is fine for getting that initial balance, but everything changes when the place is full of bodies soaking everything up. As far as I'm concerned, if it sounds good in our 'playing area' then all's good with the world for the next two hours. As for one's bass sounding different, we all play our own way so that's nothing to go by. Go play, enjoy !

[indiegrungesound]

FWIW, Here's my view on the matter.

Played 4 gigs where one or all of the other bands playing used my rig. The first two instances involved the use of my old Ampeg Portabass 250 2x10" combo. Small venue, all the band's who used it-who were all grunge/punk/metal-liked it. I was worried it was loud enough, but I didn't use the DI on either gig.

A few years later using my Warwick Neo Pro stack with an Ashdown Little Giant 350.(DI in use.) The who were on before us were largely acoustic and without a full drum kit. They sounded fine. When we came on, the bass was far to low down in the mix, though we still played ok and went down ok.

The last time when my stack was used by other bands, it was my current Hartke LH500/Warwick 2x12" stack. (DI on again.) My band were a bit Britpop. The other two bands were a metal band and a funk rock/classic rock group. The rig sounded brilliant!

So basically, if you use the DI on your rig and get your EQ sorted, everyone's happy!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='indiegrungesound' post='1136354' date='Feb 21 2011, 09:45 PM']The who were on before us were largely acoustic and without a full drum kit.

So basically, if you use the DI on your rig and get your EQ sorted, everyone's happy![/quote]

Well I guess John Entwhistle could get a good sound out of anything?

And I think we are talking mainly where your rig is FOH sound rather than DI as in those situations Im a DI all the way guy, No mic for colour or anything, Just out the bass or my pre EQ Genz DI if we are doing are own PA and sort it from there its the best way IMO.

[mcnach]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1135857' date='Feb 21 2011, 05:36 PM']

If it makes you feel better, I give that bass a lot of love I've had a few other compliments on the sound of the Vintage---the very first gig we did had a bass playing soundman who raved about it. I really, really like the added switching you add to it---makes it really punchy.

To be fair, your stingray sounded damn good that night too!

Cheers[/quote]


Hey Steven!

I see there's no way I'll ever get that bass back, eh?

At least I'm very happy it's been used, gigged, and appreciated.

You know where to find me when you get tired of it (yeah, I know, I know, but i have to try )

PM-me when you have more local gigs, would love to come along.

[51m0n]

Got to here URB through my rig at the SE Bass Bash.

Made me sick it did, he proved that it wasn't actually my rig making me sound totally pants, but my bass. Its clearly not me after all, I'm a genius me

In all honesty he did sound utterly superb, I suspect it is a lot to do with the fact that he practices, and stuff, where as I tend to bang out a couple of riffs a week if I get time! That and he can play of course, that woudl; be the other major factor I suspect....

[EBS_freak]

Just read this thread through.

Jeez, the guff quotient is high in this thread...

[indiegrungesound]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1136444' date='Feb 21 2011, 10:38 PM']Well I guess John Entwhistle could get a good sound out of anything? [/quote]

DOH!!! That'll teach me not to spellcheck.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1137141' date='Feb 22 2011, 02:38 PM']PM-me when you have more local gigs, would love to come along.[/quote]

Short notice I know but we're on tomorrow (Saturday) at Cabaret Voltaire:

[url="http://www.thecabaretvoltaire.com/view_event.php?id=1776"]http://www.thecabaretvoltaire.com/view_event.php?id=1776[/url]

I think its £6 on the door but if you contact us (through the website---www.supermarionation.co.uk) I think Steve has some cheaper ones.

Sam

[mcnach]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1141454' date='Feb 25 2011, 04:43 PM']Short notice I know but we're on tomorrow (Saturday) at Cabaret Voltaire:

[url="http://www.thecabaretvoltaire.com/view_event.php?id=1776"]http://www.thecabaretvoltaire.com/view_event.php?id=1776[/url]

I think its £6 on the door but if you contact us (through the website---www.supermarionation.co.uk) I think Steve has some cheaper ones.

Sam[/quote]


Ah! Just saw this, too late!
Next time!
Have you got anything else coming soon?