wateroftyne Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Interesting. [quote]Got this today in an email from Bass Specialties and thought I would pass it along: First up - prices on all of the AE cabinets will go up effective on March 1! Along with the new pricing, there will be a slight re-design of the AE210 cab. Next, believe it or not, Bergantino is phasing out all non-Neo cabinets - this means that the VERY popular HT112ER, will soon be obsolete, along with the EX112ER, the HS210, and the HS410 - supplies on these discontinued cabs is very limited and the remaining stock will not be discounted.[/quote] Edited February 20, 2011 by wateroftyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Interesting. I can't understand discontinuing all ceramic cabs...a few maybe, but all? There are still plenty of us who prefer his ceramic loaded cabinets. Discontinuing the NVs?! Crazy move. That will leave the current lineup with 4 cabs. AE112, 210, 212, 410. I wonder if we are going to see other models? I think the price rise is a bit 'eeeeekkkk'...they are already quite expensive. I can see that detering buyers if it's significant. We shall see Edited February 20, 2011 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Oh no even more reason I should of bought a G&L L2500K and a Berg 1x12 instead of just the Ray5! Oh well I do like the Ray so its not all bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1134166' date='Feb 20 2011, 11:16 AM']Interesting. I can't understand discontinuing all ceramic cabs...a few maybe, but all? There are still plenty of us who prefer his ceramic loaded cabinets. Discontinuing the NVs?! Crazy move. That will leave the current lineup with 4 cabs. AE112, 210, 212, 410. I wonder if we are going to see other models? I think the price rise is a bit 'eeeeekkkk'...they are already quite expensive. I can see that detering buyers if it's significant. We shall see [/quote] Agree, pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 I find it a bit odd, too. The HT & ER 112 and the HS210 aren't exactly heavyweight, and they are a practical alternative to the AEs for only a few lbs more (and a few £s less!) Jim must know what he's doing, though... I wonder what they're doing to the AE210? Front ported, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Interesting stuff. I wonder why this particular brand is already the most expensive on the market? (I think?) I think MM20 might be right. The price rise in the present economic climate is surely going to reduce turnover, but maybe profits might rise anyway. Is it a case of veblen marketing? [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good[/url] Frank. Edit for spelling corrections. Edited February 20, 2011 by machinehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 In terms of weight only, I can't see the point of Neo over Ceramics for single chassis' myself - we are talking 10-12lbs per cab..but guess it makes sense to cover these basses when you run 2x10/12 lines and up. And I can't nmake sense of slimming down the range when a few that will bite the dust are so well regarded. Maybe they think the market is all about weight now..?? It is to me atm, but I am thinking of a bigger cab for bigger stages if work continues to go that way, And on the list would be the heavier Ag cabs, NV610 and Goliath 610 and once you get to that size you are on wheels and a 2 man lift anyway so the difference between 90 and 115lbs is largely irrelavant If he has sliimmed down to a 4 cab line or so of those DIMS..I would think he has given up on the Pro audience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Usually import prices rise because the costs have risen; ie import duties, courier fees, the VAT increase and fluctuations in the exchange rate. When a manufacturer discontinues a line it usually means that the cost of producing that line has risen to the point that it is no longer viable. ie not enough people are buying that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I doubt just one line could keep the company afloat. Apparently the cost of neo itself is rising rapidly. Bad time to be buying new neo cabs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 From the man himself on Talkbass: Wow, didn’t expect to wake up this morning to this. Maybe I can shed a little light on what’s happening and help answer some of your questions and maybe even concerns. First, the NV’s aren’t going anywhere. They will still be an integral part of our product line, as they fill a niche in the market place. As for the HT112ER, that was, as I wrote to my dealers, a tough pill to swallow and not of my choosing. After NAMM, my local B&C sales rep along with the president of B&C stopped by my office for a visit. They informed me that the tweeter they’ve been making for me since the inception of the original HT112 back in 2001, when Bergantino Audio first started, will no longer be available. I completely understand their decision as I was the only one in the world they were still making this tweeter for over the last several years. As many HT112 owners know, the tweeter plays a big role in the character of that cabinet. I’m sure there are other tweeters out there that can fill the role, but for now I’ve decided to let it go and see how it plays out. If demand persists, I can and will research a new tweeter for this product and bring it back to market. As for the HS cabs, it really comes down to numbers. They have certainly been selling, but not at the volume of the AE’s. Now, here’s what, as some have eluded to here, should really concern all of you… the price of neo. It’s a two part concern. One, as has been noted, the increased demand by things such as electric motors for automobiles. But that’s only “1/3” of the supply/demand equation. The fact that China is the only country in the world right now producing neo should really be of concern to you. When you have increased demand along with a monopoly, no telling where this is going to go. In fact, I was also told by one highly regarding speaker manufacturer that all new product development in 2011 will be ceramic based only! So while it may seem a bit of a contradiction to be phasing out ceramic products while the price of neo could potentially skyrocket, remember, it’s not like I’ve thrown away the plans and specs of the ceramic products. In fact, if the marketplace should change such that it becomes a weight vs. price issue, and price starts to dominate the decision process, I’m only a few phone calls and less than 2 months away from having a complete ceramic based product line on my dealers’ floors. Anyway, hope his helps answer some of your questions. But right now, I have to get back to cooking my infamous “Mama Bergantino’s” Italian sauce and meatballs for my son’s varsity hockey team’s pre-game pasta dinner! ….Hmm maybe time for a career change??? :-) Regards, Jim Bergantino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Nice informative reply, Fair play to him. I wonder if this is part of the same reason the Genz Benz Uber cabs are already expensive rather than bringing in a massive price hike later this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1134841' date='Feb 20 2011, 09:27 PM']Nice informative reply, Fair play to him. I wonder if this is part of the same reason the Genz Benz Uber cabs are already expensive rather than bringing in a massive price hike later this year?[/quote] Hmm, not sure. I think the Uber cabs are highly priced as they are good old fashioned 'Made in the USA'. But I agree, the Uber cabs are more than their other lines. I have heard, no idea if its true, that the cab you have is a very nice 'neo yet sounds traditional' type cabinet. Its on my list to try out Edited February 20, 2011 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 G, good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1134853' date='Feb 20 2011, 09:34 PM']Hmm, not sure. I think the Uber cabs are highly priced as they are good old fashioned 'Made in the USA'. But I agree, the Uber cabs are more than their other lines.[/quote] Don't fall into the old marketing "Made in the USA" BS because that's all it is. I've worked in America, Korea, Japan and China and honestly, USA manufacturing standards are miles behind all the others. China is still learning but, in some areas, they are up there with the rest - musical instrument manufacturing being one of them. The koreans are amazing manufacturers. I even loved the Korean canteen food! The US company I worked in was in California. 90% of the employees were Mexican and unskilled (but doing jobs that trained and skilled American workers used to do, and no s***, some of them had been flipping burgers as their last job) and most of the parts were made in Mexico and shipped to the US for final assembly. Nothing to do with my job but every day I saw a train coming from Mexico loaded with cars. Three cars high and it took quite a few minutes to pass - that's the scale we're talking. Marketing is a facinating subject. It plays to all the human weaknesses. My tip? Look at who is producing the best designed and engineered cabinets, and who is using the best engineered components and buy their gear. Most of the seriously good and real engineering cabinet manufacturers are in the USA but one is in the UK. Aren't we lucky? Can anyone help with my question in post 6 regarding why Bergantino cabs are so expensive? For example, do they use more expensive components, is there expensive research involved, do they give a superior warranty or a sale-or-return policy? Are they tougher, stronger, smaller, bigger, heavier or lighter? What is it? What I will say is this - they do look good but they're expensive. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='machinehead' post='1134987' date='Feb 21 2011, 12:29 AM']Can anyone help with my question in post 6 regarding why Bergantino cabs are so expensive? For example, do they use more expensive components, is there expensive research involved, do they give a superior warranty or a sale-or-return policy? Are they tougher, stronger, smaller, bigger, heavier or lighter? What is it? What I will say is this - they do look good but they're expensive. Frank.[/quote] Don't know for sure, but here's some suggestions: Small 'boutique' company. They're the most solid, well-built cabs I've ever used. IMO They're the best sounding cabs I've ever used. They have a great reputation, so people are prepared to pay a premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1135049' date='Feb 21 2011, 07:12 AM']Don't know for sure, but here's some suggestions: Small 'boutique' company. They're the most solid, well-built cabs I've ever used. [b]IMO They're the best sounding cabs I've ever used.[/b] They have a great reputation, so people are prepared to pay a premium.[/quote] Yup that about sums it up, the really big deal being the one I've hi-lighted. To my ears, and I assure you I wanted to think otherwise purely for cost reasons, every time I put my ae410 up gainst another cab its closer to what I imagine a great bass tone should be. Not always by much, but I've yet to hear another cab that ticked as many of those entirely subjectivve tone boxes for me as the one I currently own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I do think we pay a premium in this country/Europe. Compare the prices in the USA of Aguilar and Berg. Some of them are very close. In the UK? Totally different. I think notching the prices up again is going to push them away from potential buyers. Re: The whole 'Made in USA'. I do agree, but I think there are a lot of players in the USA who prefer products manufactured in their own country. I tend to think supporting certain smaller companies like Genz is a small aspect of why players are happy to pay a little bit more. I do find it odd that their amps and assembled/made in Taiwan, yet their cabinets are made in the USA. Shipping costs perhaps? Edited February 21, 2011 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne58 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1135049' date='Feb 21 2011, 07:12 AM']Don't know for sure, but here's some suggestions: Small 'boutique' company. They're the most solid, well-built cabs I've ever used. IMO They're the best sounding cabs I've ever used. They have a great reputation, so people are prepared to pay a premium.[/quote] Spot on..... In my experience I agree on all points, AE112's in my case..... a big investment but value for money. I'm not an electronics expert but I know what sounds good for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauBass Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1135049' date='Feb 21 2011, 07:12 AM']Don't know for sure, but here's some suggestions: Small 'boutique' company. They're the most solid, well-built cabs I've ever used. IMO They're the best sounding cabs I've ever used. They have a great reputation, so people are prepared to pay a premium.[/quote] Spot on! My Bergantino NV610 is the best built and sounding cab I've ever used. Many time I've changed amps, effect pedals, bass guitars but the cab always stays, the punch it packs is to be heard! Edited February 21, 2011 by PauBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I really rate Jim Bergantino as a cab designer, especially his work on crossovers. And as a company they have a history of innovating, launching new products and discontinuing old ones. If they didn't rationalise their product range regularly at some point it would become unprofitable to manufacture and stock so many different items. They're not exactly what I want from a cab but I've never heard a poor performing Bergantino product! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Reasonable responses from all. I haven't knocked or been negative about the Bergantino cabinets because I've only heard one and it was very good. Most of what we all like and dislike is so subjective anyway. The company has obviously worked hard to build an excellent reputation and they're reaping the benefits of that reputation in the selling price and demand for their products. Top marks for that. I still shudder at the new prices, although I might be more tempted by second-hand values. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee650 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I absolutely adore my accugroove cabs but the bergantino line has had me interested for a long time, id love to try one, i must ask has the IP series been discontinued? i didnt see the on the website last i looked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Yes the IP's have been discontinued, but if you hurry Platypus has an IP112ER for sale right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1135139' date='Feb 21 2011, 09:35 AM']I tend to think supporting certain smaller companies like Genz is a small aspect of why players are happy to pay a little bit more.[/quote] Is that the same Genz Benz owned by Fender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1134853' date='Feb 20 2011, 09:34 PM']Hmm, not sure. I think the Uber cabs are highly priced as they are good old fashioned 'Made in the USA'. But I agree, the Uber cabs are more than their other lines. I have heard, no idea if its true, that the cab you have is a very nice 'neo yet sounds traditional' type cabinet. Its on my list to try out [/quote] I love my Neox 2x12T, I wonder if it's because it has a traditional sound that I don't get all the fuss about neo cabs? I used to be all about the 1x15 but 2x12 for me is FTW now. You still get a bit of that trouser flap but without the mud and me and EBS freak have never seen eye to eye on 10's! I don't care how many you have or who has made them they don't seam to have enough bottom end for me. As for the Bergantino 1x12's they are the only cabs I have ever seen 5 bass players at the same time agree to like and want one/two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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