Would You Play For Nothing?

[JellyKnees]

Of couse, but unfortunately the opportunities to play live as an original band are severely limited these days....

I blame all these feckin tribute/cover bands, but especially the tribute acts. They really p me off actually...stop pretending to be someone else and go do something creative ffs. Parasites. Phew, glad I got that off my chest...

[Gareth Hughes]

Sad reality about cover/tribute bands is that it's just down to supply and demand. As much as I'd love for the general, pub going, wedding dancing, beer drinking majority to be up for supporting original and creative music - they don't. Music to them is not what music is to us. By that I mean it's the difference between 'Last night a DJ saved my life' (the concept for real, not the song) and 'Music is what I have on in the background while I'm getting ready for work/going out/etc.' Once I got comfortable with the fact that playing in bars and at weddings was entirely about keeping the dancefloor moving and not making great music, I enjoyed it a whole lot more. Of course it's possible to get paid for playing original music, but your audience numbers do shrink drastically so you have to work a damn side harder for it.

Having said all that - would I play for free? Not if everyone else in the venue is getting paid. Why should I? Given the music you're expected to play in bars, I'd get much more enjoyment jamming along to records at home than playing 'Sweet Home Alabama' for the 1000th time. But there are plenty of times I've played for free because of the people involved, the music or just because it was something I wanted to be involved in and there simply wasn't any money in it.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='JellyKnees' post='1139718' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:07 AM']Of couse, but unfortunately the opportunities to play live as an original band are severely limited these days....

I blame all these feckin tribute/cover bands, but especially the tribute acts. They really p me off actually...stop pretending to be someone else and go do something creative ffs. Parasites. Phew, glad I got that off my chest...[/quote]

Careful, JK! You'll be as unpopular here as me if you carry on in that vein.

[JellyKnees]

Being popular has never been high on my list of priorities Bilbo...personally, I'd rather have some integrity than be popular.

Avast!

Edited February 24, 2011 by JellyKnees

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='JellyKnees' post='1139754' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:36 AM']Being popular has never been high on my list of priorities Bilbo...personally, I'd rather have some integrity than be popular.

Avast![/quote]
Yeah! Stick it to the man!

I do both. Life is good.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1139739' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:27 AM']Careful, JK! You'll be as unpopular here as me if you carry on in that vein. [/quote]
Nah.You redeem yourself with cool posts about Jazz and Theory.

Just a thought..... There are a lot of people saying that they already play for free,and obviously there are a lot if bands that do the same. Could this be a major reason why venues don't(won't) pay that much out,and why music is often undervalued? Or why original bands think that they have to play on a bill with three other bands,all of whom are selling tickets but receiving little to no money,while the promoter is pocketing all of the money?

[Master blaster]

My experience is if u want to get paid as an original band you have to take on the promotion yourself. Ive played several gigs where the promoter gets all the money but doesn't pay bands. I played one in plymouth with a promotor that apparently got paid by the bar several hundred pounds to put on a gig and he didn't even turn up to the actual show. Where as the shows ive promoted ive taken the door money divided it with the bands and came out with a nice amount for all my troubles. Imo i think it should be the promoter that is the last to get paid. Not the bands. Without bands the promoter wont have a gig to promote.

[Guest]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1137127' date='Feb 22 2011, 02:26 PM']But surely if you don't play full time then you also don't love it enough?[/quote]

Although that makes no sense, I don't love playing bass.

[wateroftyne]

The blunt truth about getting paid for playing original material is this:

If your original material is good, you're in with a shout. If it isn't any good, don't blame cover & tribute bands.

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1139768' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:41 AM']Yeah! Stick it to the man!

I do both. Life is good.[/quote]

I wouldn't claim to be sticking it to the man, I just think that the concept of the 'Tribute' act sucks bigtime. It used be thought of as naff, now it somehow has become acceptable - I just don't get it myself. I've seen the real Floyd, I don't want to see pretend version, Australian or otherwise...

Covers, well ok, if that's what you want to do, go for...it would bore me to death personally, but that's just me. I'd rather have the day job tbh.

I might be going off topic a little here, but 25 (ish) years ago when I started playing, you could get gigs in pubs doing original stuff, and even get paid for it. Now it seems you can't. How many versions of Mustang Sally do people really want to hear? Do people really want to just hear the same old sh*t, or is it just a safe option for the publicans? Less pubs these days so more competition I guess. But if there are less and less opportunities for original stuff to be played live, what will the tribute/cover acts in 20 years time be playing?

[icastle]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1139810' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:09 PM']The blunt truth about getting paid for playing original material is this:

If your original material is good, you're in with a shout. If it isn't any good, don't blame cover & tribute bands.[/quote]

+1

If the original material was good then cover bands would be covering it...

[farmer61]

[quote name='JellyKnees' post='1139814' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:11 PM']I wouldn't claim to be sticking it to the man, I just think that the concept of the 'Tribute' act sucks bigtime. It used be thought of as naff, now it somehow has become acceptable - I just don't get it myself. I've seen the real Floyd, I don't want to see pretend version, Australian or otherwise...

Covers, well ok, if that's what you want to do, go for...it would bore me to death personally, but that's just me. I'd rather have the day job tbh.

I might be going off topic a little here, but 25 (ish) years ago when I started playing, you could get gigs in pubs doing original stuff, and even get paid for it. Now it seems you can't. How many versions of Mustang Sally do people really want to hear? Do people really want to just hear the same old sh*t, or is it just a safe option for the publicans? Less pubs these days so more competition I guess. But if there are less and less opportunities for original stuff to be played live, what will the tribute/cover acts in 20 years time be playing?[/quote]
Or perhaps there's loads of crap originals bands that people don't want to listen to?

And yes the average pub go-er does want to hear the same old sh*te, or certainly they seem to.

[icastle]

[quote name='JellyKnees' post='1139814' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:11 PM']But if there are less and less opportunities for original stuff to be played live, what will the tribute/cover acts in 20 years time be playing?[/quote]

...Mustang Sally, Alright Now, Johnny B Goode.....

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='icastle' post='1139824' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:16 PM']...Mustang Sally, Alright Now, Johnny B Goode..... [/quote]

yawn

[chewrocket]

I have played for free on many occasions in the past though rarely play covers/function bands for free (unless its for charity).

I do find it absolutely crazy how a pub can get a band to travel miles and miles to play a gig (with their gear, which they share) and then not even give them petrol money DESPITE the pub having a decent crowd, selling lots of drinks and making money. This is pure cheek and disrespect. That being said, I do it and will continue to do it because when your playing originals you gotta put your back out to get noticed.

[Doddy]

[quote name='chewrocket' post='1139835' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:25 PM']I do find it absolutely crazy how a pub can get a band to travel miles and miles to play a gig (with their gear, which they share) and then not even give them petrol money DESPITE the pub having a decent crowd, selling lots of drinks and making money. This is pure cheek and disrespect. That being said, I do it and will continue to do it because when your playing originals you gotta put your back out to get noticed.[/quote]

You've answered your own question.
If a band is prepared 'to travel miles and miles to play a gig (with their gear, which they share) and then not even give them petrol money DESPITE the pub having a decent crowd, selling lots of drinks and making money' then that is why pubs and clubs will continue to do it.
If you are unhappy with it,do something about it. Thinkhs are only the way they are because bands make it worse for themselves by accepting this protocol.

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1139852' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:37 PM']You've answered your own question.
If a band is prepared 'to travel miles and miles to play a gig (with their gear, which they share) and then not even give them petrol money DESPITE the pub having a decent crowd, selling lots of drinks and making money' then that is why pubs and clubs will continue to do it.
If you are unhappy with it,do something about it. Thinkhs are only the way they are because bands make it worse for themselves by accepting this protocol.[/quote]

I agree; when I was doing originals all the bands would get something towards petrol, costs etc. I never did a 'free' gig except for charity. If you didn't all roll over so easily, then the promoters wouldn't be able to operate in that way.

[algmusic]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1139852' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:37 PM']You've answered your own question.
If a band is prepared 'to travel miles and miles to play a gig (with their gear, which they share) and then not even give them petrol money DESPITE the pub having a decent crowd, selling lots of drinks and making money' then that is why pubs and clubs will continue to do it.
If you are unhappy with it,do something about it. Thinkhs are only the way they are because bands make it worse for themselves by accepting this protocol.[/quote]

+1 that annoys me too..

people complain about not getting paid enough for gigs yet still do them... When you do this you've just told the promoter not to change.. if bands stopped playing for free they would be calling bands to get them to play and even pay them..

England really do like their covers the opposite to France.. I've been fortunate to be able to play in function bands with friends who I like, who are great players and we have enough say in the set that enjoy what we are playing.

I have no problem with tribute bands.. it's just another coverband.. If you like the songs or band, you play them. I think some tribute bands take it too seriously by thinking they are actually the person.. But if they are good, which there are only a few, great.. all the bad ones can be run over by a bus please :-).. I'd love to join a radiohead trubite band, but most radiohead fans wouldn't want to see a tribute act..

I also think you can play the covers YOU want to play to a degree and still get the crowd on their feet, you just have to work harder..

and on the mustang sally comment.. I haven't played that in about 7years (and hated it then). There are a lot of bands out there that do play that Sh*t, I'd have to get paid double to play that :-)

[icastle]

We have two pubs in this village - one has mostly cover bands whilst the other one has mostly originals bands.

The 'covers pub' is packed on a Saturday night, they pay their bands about £150 - £200 and get a big enough turnout to make it worthwhile.

The 'originals pub' pays a flat £30, attracts a handful of punters and the locals are waiting for it to become yet another recession casualty.

Regardless of the 'rights' or 'wrongs' of playing covers, if the punters will turn out to watch it then of course that's what the publican is going to put on...

[JTUK]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1139810' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:09 PM']The blunt truth about getting paid for playing original material is this:

If your original material is good, you're in with a shout. If it isn't any good, don't blame cover & tribute bands.[/quote]


Agree..


Back yourself, tell them thanks but no thanks.

[Bilbo]

The simple fact is that it is not the covers or originals that defines the ability of a band to get the gig, it is the ability of the band to pull an audience. Covers bands and tribute bands use the reputations of their subjects to secure a pseudo-guarantee of an audience. If an originals band has a followng, it should be equally attractive to a venue. The question is, how can bands work on building a following if the gigs are all given over to covers bands and tribute acts. I guess this is where they have to work a lot harder using alternative methods like the internet etc.

[bassace]

Ever since I started out 50 years ago I've been paid for playing. In my first year I knocked up a bad debt of £2.50 for the band (that was quite good then) simply because I didn't have the balls to ask for it.

To answer the question, I would play for nothing under the following circumstances:-
if a fellow muso asked me to - I wouldn't ask why
for a village fundraising gig - I do Hook Norton Library and the church each year
nothing else, especially for a promotor's 'charity gig'

[Moonstomper]

We've been asked on a few occasions to play gigs at pubs/clubs we haven't played before, we always say "£250 please" but obviously we're prepared to be negotiated down, On the occasions we've been told "sorry we don't pay" we've always politely responded "we'll pass on that, thanks for thinking of us"

One of the bands I play in has got quite a following these days, our friends and fans travel a long way, fill the joint and drink a lot of beer, it should be a win win situation.

[paul_5]

Generally if I'm doing covers stuff then I'll expect to be paid - if only to compensate me for having to yawn through 'Mustang Sally, Johnny B Goode' et al for the millionth time. I used to be involved in quite a healthy originals band, and we were prepared to play for costs simply to promote our material. I'm in a fortunate position in that I don't have to gig three or four times a week to pay the bills anymore, so can be pretty selective with the jobs I take. I will still do stuff for free if the right musicians ask me and it sounds like a laugh. Charity stuff is free (goes without saying), provided that it's a cause that I don't mind being associated with.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1139810' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:09 PM']The blunt truth about getting paid for playing original material is this:

If your original material is good, you're in with a shout. If it isn't any good, don't blame cover & tribute bands.[/quote]

This is true to an extent, well, the 'normal' extent with bands that could possibly be big commerically or attract a crowd because they fit with the current trends. I agree with what you are saying. Eg, the current fairly large indie scene. If you havent got the hooks, the style, the strong songwriting, then there is no point moaning about it.

However, there are literally thousands of bands in every country who operate under the radar in a different guise.

Ive been there, and ive come back to it. Why? Simply, because there is nothing like it.

What is it?

Well, the term used is 'DIY' shows. Its been popular in the USA since the late 70s, maybe earlier than that. Even Dave Grohl has played his part in this 'scene' back when he started. Friends put friends on, who informs other bands, who brings more bands and more bonds are formed. The bands love what they play, keep playing, play for next to nothing, and the crowds can goto a packed show, and pay very little. Everyone wins, apart from financially the bands are 'losing out' if the promoter is actually not working it as they should. If they get petrol money, then at least they dont lose out too much, and thats how it should be.

I used to put shows on in my hometown, and we could have made a lot of money. We didnt, we paid the bands a share for their time, and the rest went to promotion. I did EXACTLY the same with DJ nights that cater for the alternative and indie crowd. Most bars and clubs play rubbish music. We played underground hardcore, really heavy stuff, modern melodic indie, a little underground electro, punk, etc etc. The list goes on.

Ive never taken what id class as a proper 'payment' thats just for myself from any of it, apart from the first real band I joined that was doing half a set of covers and half a set of originals. That stopped when I was 17 and I never went back. I have tried, but never 'clicked' with the bands, or wanted to spend so much time preparing for one gig. I never took a penny from DJ-ing for 5-6 hours. I won't in future either, when I do it again. With the DJ Nights it was free entry!

Im quite passionate about this subject, both at band level and DJ level. At a band level, its because I really enjoy seeing people enjoy themselves, grab the mic off me, sing our songs, then dive into the crowd. They give you a look, like you are really making them have a great night. They paid hardly anything to get in (if we have a promoter with ethics) and we just get petrol money.

Bands like At The Drive-In, for example, come from this, and they DID make a commercial success of it. Some bands make it, but its extremely rare as usually the masses cannot understand the passion behind the music. Some of the music really is chaotic and heavy, or very meloidic and clean with jazz-like chops on the guitars with layers of delay and effects (like Minus the Bear). They all share the same ethics, and do it because they love it.

So, these bands, some of them are very very talented, but stay under the radar on purpose. Some may think they 'bitter' because they do not get paid high wages like a function band/commercial band, but the fact they are there playing for hardly anything is a testament to their commitment.

Thats where my rant ends haha. Id love to be in a quality function band AND play in the DIY scene. But the DIY scene comes first, because you'd never get the adrenaline rush in the function band quite like it.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Musicman20