Peter Hook Jazz Solo

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='risingson' post='1137497' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:10 PM']Threads like this always remind me of how unadventurous and if I'm honest, how close-minded people can be.

As someone's already pointed out, the guy had a hand in Joy Division and New Order, and produced two of the most instantly recognisable bass lines of recent memory.[/quote]Which 2 is that then? (I'm not being sarcy - I honestly can't think what you mean right now)

[quote name='risingson' post='1137497' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:10 PM']He's an incredibly inventive bass player[/quote]He has a repetative style of playing the same 3 or 4 rising notes in a riff (as you can see from the OP). I think you may be overestimating his actual contribution to the world of music.

[crez5150]

[quote name='risingson' post='1137497' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:10 PM']Threads like this always remind me of how unadventurous and if I'm honest, how close-minded people can be.

As someone's already pointed out, the guy had a hand in Joy Division and New Order, and produced two of the most instantly recognisable bass lines of recent memory. He's an incredibly inventive bass player, and whilst a lot of the time I choose not to listen to Joy Division or New Order's music much anymore, I can't help but feel a lot of the criticism aimed at him is based on his perceived inability to fall in line and take on the typical role of what a bassist is 'meant' to do. Boring... at least give him the credit playing for contributing towards his music in his own unique way before claiming that 'he's not a bass player because he doesn't play the bass parts'. It's such a redundant argument.[/quote]

Well one really seeing as one was a sequenced bass synth...

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137548' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:36 PM']Which 2 is that then? (I'm not being sarcy - I honestly can't think what you mean right now)[/quote]
+1

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='crez5150' post='1137396' date='Feb 22 2011, 05:52 PM']Not really..... hooky plays up the neck.... it's not a bass line is it.... I mean would 'Good Times' by Chic sound the same if the bass line was played on guitar... I think not.[/quote]

That's a bit narrow in thinking isn't it? So playing up the neck isn't a bass line? Since when?

[steve-soar]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1136650' date='Feb 22 2011, 02:43 AM']He's always had an interesting sound and approach to the instrument, and I don't feel very well equipped to criticise his playing when he was in Joy Division and New Order and I wasn't.

Sure he's not a virtuoso but I don't think he's ever claimed to be.[/quote]Nice to see you back, my son.

[risingson]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137548' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:36 PM']Which 2 is that then? (I'm not being sarcy - I honestly can't think what you mean right now)[/quote]

Love Will Tear Us Apart and Blue Monday. Whether you like 'em or not doesn't make them any less recognisable.

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137548' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:36 PM']He has a repetative style of playing the same 3 or 4 rising notes in a riff (as you can see from the OP). I think you may be overestimating his actual contribution to the world of music.[/quote]

I'm not underestimating anything What I would say is that I find it endlessly frustrating how someone can be slammed for their perceived lack of technical 'ability' when the sum of it all equals music that has been so very influential. You might not be aware of of Joy Division or New Order's wider influence, in which case it's more likely that you're underestimating their impact on popular music. It's like saying that John Lennon wasn't a particularly talented pianist. You'd probably be right in saying so, but then his music was so fantastic that his piano skills pale in comparison to his prolific and highly acclaimed output. Peter Hook is never going to be up there with the likes of John Patitucci in terms of the level of skill he can bring to bass playing, but his contribution to his style of music is no less significant.

[crez5150]

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='1137567' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:44 PM']That's a bit narrow in thinking isn't it? So playing up the neck isn't a bass line? Since when?[/quote]


I understand what you're saying and yes playing up the neck doesn't make it any less of a bass line....

what I meant was in reference to my earlier post about the bass line of Love will Tear us Apart..... in as much that it could be any instrument playing that melody.....

[purpleblob]

That was truly awful.

[risingson]

[quote name='crez5150' post='1137550' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:37 PM']Well one really seeing as one was a sequenced bass synth...[/quote]

Yeh of course but the premise is still there and it's still his own music. I think this is where the confusion starts; what's more important, a load of slick musicians with mad chops and technical skills making music, or a bunch of musicians with the means of writing excellent music but with less than impressive technical skills and/or theoretical knowledge? To me the latter often produces the most interesting results because the imperfections add to the brilliance of the music because of how raw and real it sounds.

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='crez5150' post='1137585' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:54 PM']what I meant was in reference to my earlier post about the bass line of Love will Tear us Apart..... in as much that it could be any instrument playing that melody.....[/quote]

But it'd sound bloody awful. A couple of people have tried to play it either with a guitar or with keyboards (i.e. Stanton Miranda) and it just sounds wrong. It doesn't sit in the song at all well, especially compared to the original. Put bluntly, it works on the bass better than anything else.

[Clarky]

That clip might be rubbish but Hooky did some brilliant bass (yes, bass not guitar or anything else) lines. What is more they help make (and in some cases define) the song, despite his lack of technical brilliance. Take a listen to 24 hours, Ceremony, Transmission, or several others (LWTUA already mentioned, She's lost control, Disorder). No other bass player (at least at that time) sounded anything like him. How many bass players today can make that claim?

[Clarky]

Ceremony:


24 hours:

[stinson]

Hooky's a legend, simple as.

[risingson]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1137601' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:02 PM']That clip might be rubbish but Hooky did some brilliant bass (yes, bass not guitar or anything else) lines. What is more they help make (and in some cases define) the song, despite his lack of technical brilliance. Take a listen to 24 hours, Ceremony, Transmission, or several others (LWTUA already mentioned, She's lost control, Disorder). No other bass player (at least at that time) sounded anything like him. How many bass players today can make that claim?[/quote]

+ 1 You've managed to put it more succinctly than I could really.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='risingson' post='1137574' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:50 PM']Love Will Tear Us Apart and Blue Monday. Whether you like 'em or not doesn't make them any less recognisable.



I'm not underestimating anything What I would say is that I find it endlessly frustrating how someone can be slammed for their perceived lack of technical 'ability' when the sum of it all equals music that has been so very influential. You might not be aware of of Joy Division or New Order's wider influence, in which case it's more likely that you're underestimating their impact on popular music. It's like saying that John Lennon wasn't a particularly talented pianist. You'd probably be right in saying so, but then his music was so fantastic that his piano skills pale in comparison to his prolific and highly acclaimed output. Peter Hook is never going to be up there with the likes of John Patitucci in terms of the level of skill he can bring to bass playing, but his contribution to his style of music is no less significant.[/quote]
Haha when you said "most instantly recognisable bass lines of [b]recent memory[/b]" I honestly didn't realise you were on about from 30 years a ago..... and he's being playing variations of that bass line ever since.

It's hardly worth mentioning his contribution on Blue Monday as it's not the main synth part which I presume is the recognisable part you mention and not the few second of real bass.

I'm not slamming him, I used to enjoy Hooky basslines when I was a kid and they still don't hack me off to the point of being unlistenable now but I can see them for what they are. I take issue when he's described as a musical genius though (there are are people that swoon over a pile of bricks being "art" - so what are you gonna do) from what I know of him, I'm sure if you spoke to him he'd be the first to agree that he can hardly play bass and was just in the right place at the right time.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Ou7shined

[Doddy]

One of my young students really digs Joy Division and wanted to learn a couple of Hooks lines. I've got to be honest,none of them did anything for me-neither the basslines or the songs.

Is the bassline to Blue Monday that recognisable? I've heard the song loads and can't bring the line to mind at all,even though I could sing the melody.

[Blademan_98]

The clip was awful but I am sure there are some clips around that some of you chaps wish didn't exist........

Still, I am no master of the bass so I will slink off and practice a bit more

[crez5150]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1137616' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM']One of my young students really digs Joy Division and wanted to learn a couple of Hooks lines. I've got to be honest,none of them did anything for me-neither the basslines or the songs.

Is the bassline to Blue Monday that recognisable? I've heard the song loads and can't bring the line to mind at all,even though I could sing the melody.[/quote]


Blue Monday was a massive hit..... I remember back in the day when I was working in record sales, Blue Monday was always said to be the biggest selling 12" of all time.... I know the sales were there for it but don't know if that's still true today....... I seem to recall Sumner actually programmed the bass line

[crez5150]

[quote name='Blademan_98' post='1137643' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:22 PM']The clip was awful but I am sure there are some clips around that some of you chaps wish didn't exist........[/quote]

There is.... but I was young and needed the money..... and the chicken wasn't hurt at all

[crez5150]

Class

[Jerry_B]

Yep, the band being sh*te on TOTP - alot of those for other bands , and not just on TOTP. But then again I don't think anyone was suggesting New Order are perfect

[risingson]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137614' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM']Haha when you said "most instantly recognisable bass lines of [b]recent memory[/b]" I honestly didn't realise you were on about from 30 years a ago..... and he's being playing variations of that bass line ever since.[/quote]

Poor choice of words on my behalf perhaps. I should have said 'two of the most recognisable bass parts of the last 30 years'.

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137614' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM']It's hardly worth mentioning his contribution on Blue Monday as it's not the main synth part which I presume is the recognisable part you mention and not the few second of real bass. [/quote]

The format of the bass line shouldn't really detract from the context of the argument which is that you know pretty much instantly what tune you're listening to. Musicianship for some bass players extends beyond the realms of their own instrument... some have even been known to embrace other means of analog instrumentation like the Moog in that tune. Some of them even write their own songs!!

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137614' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM']I'm not slamming him, I used to enjoy Hooky basslines when I was a kid and they still don't hack me off to the point of being unlistenable now but I can see them for what they are. I take issue when he's described as a musical genius though (there are are people that swoon over a pile of bricks being "art" - so what are you gonna do) from what I know of him, I'm sure if you spoke to him he'd be the first to agree that he can hardly play bass and was just in the right place at the right time. [/quote]

I couldn't describe him as a genius, but I'm not too sure what constitutes 'genius' anyway, the word gets bandied around too much nowadays. What he is is an important figure in a period of music that has influenced a massive amount of bands, more so than a lot of people realise. Also, I should add that the last time I listened to Joy Division or New Order was a long time ago and I wouldn't claim to be their biggest fan, but I do appreciate their music and what they brought to the forefront. But it's all too easy to pawn someone like Peter Hook off as crap without actually standing back and seeing the bigger picture. Also, life is about being in the right place at the right time, that's how things end up happening.

[nick]

I saw this, it was an improvised collaboration @ a Tony Wilson tribute thing in Manchester, with Kevin Hewick who was actually at one point was primed to take over from Ian Curtis after his untimely end.

Like most of Hooky's recent musical activites, for want of a better word; it's disappointing.
Grew up on Joy Division & New Order, big inspiration for me at the time, so this & his other outings are a bit of a shame for me.

At least it's not quite as cringeworthy as his attempts at DJing.

Edited February 22, 2011 by nick

[Clarky]

At the risk of turning this into some pseud-y argument over what is art, surely a good musician is someone who creates music that has the power to move you or stir some form of emotion. Joy Division did that (and still do) and Hooky was instrumental in that sound and the emotions they conveyed. Even the naysayers would (in many cases at least) have to agree that Hooky created some memorable bass lines - just listen to the clip of 24 hours I posted and tell me that is not a wonderful and original bass line that is central to a deeply moving song.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='risingson' post='1137666' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:34 PM']Poor choice of words on my behalf perhaps. I should have said 'two of the most recognisable bass parts of the last 30 years'. [/quote]Even then though... But I know what you mean.

[quote name='risingson' post='1137666' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:34 PM'][b]The format of the bass line shouldn't really detract from the context of the argument which is that you know pretty much instantly what tune you're listening to.[/b] Musicianship for some bass players extends beyond the realms of their own instrument... some have even been known to embrace other means of analog instrumentation like the Moog in that tune. [b]Some of them even write their own songs[/b]!![/quote]As has been demonstraited that bassline isn't even his.
Do you have any of Hooky's solo work btw?

[quote name='risingson' post='1137666' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:34 PM']I couldn't describe him as a genius, but I'm not too sure what constitutes 'genius' anyway, the word gets bandied around too much nowadays. [b]What he is is an important figure in a period of music that has influenced a massive amount of bands, more so than a lot of people realise.[/b] Also, I should add that the last time I listened to Joy Division or New Order was a long time ago and I wouldn't claim to be their biggest fan, but I do appreciate their music and what they brought to the forefront. But it's all too easy to pawn someone like Peter Hook off as crap without actually standing back and seeing the bigger picture. Also, life is about being in the right place at the right time, that's how things end up happening. [/quote]Certainly more than I realise.