Peter Hook Jazz Solo

[crez5150]

I don't think anyone would deny JD or NO influence on the Manchester scene.... but the OP was more about the awful racket Hooky is making in that video.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Skol303' post='1138666' date='Feb 23 2011, 03:06 PM']I'm just wondering whether those of us who are questioning Joy Division's influence really know much about the band or the genres of music they clearly DID influence? No disrespect meant by that... I, for example, don't know the first thing about jazz so I wouldn't feel comfortable waxing lyrical about whether a particular jazz bassist was influential or not.

If you can't hum the bassline to Blue Monday off the top of your head, for instance, then I'd argue you're probably not qualified to comment on the influence of New Order/JD! Again, no offence intended ;-)[/quote]

I'm not denying the influence he may have had on people-I've mentioned that already. But to me his playing and both Joy Division
and New Order,have done nothing for me personally as a musician.

And why does not being able to hum the bass part Blue Monday mean I'm not qualified to comment? I'm sure that the vast majority
of New Order fans couldn't hum it either. I couldn't hum you every bassline to my favourite bands songs,but it doesn't mean that
I'm not qualified to comment on them.

[MB1]

MB1.
He is LOCAL!



....Sounds like a John Cage Composition?

Edited February 23, 2011 by MB1

[Skol303]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1138702' date='Feb 23 2011, 03:29 PM']I'm not denying the influence he may have had on people-I've mentioned that already. But to me his playing and both Joy Division
and New Order,have done nothing for me personally as a musician.

And why does not being able to hum the bass part Blue Monday mean I'm not qualified to comment? I'm sure that the vast majority
of New Order fans couldn't hum it either. I couldn't hum you every bassline to my favourite bands songs,but it doesn't mean that
I'm not qualified to comment on them.[/quote]

^ Fair 'nuff, as you say, I guess different people take inspiration or are influenced by different things. There's obviously no 'right or wrong' involved, just personal preference.

As for humming the bassline to Blue Monday... I meant that in jest; I must have read your comment previously but didn't intend to single you out with my remark; so apologies if you took offence. Personally speaking, I can hum the bassline of Blue Monday quite happily, but that's me! My point was that some folks here - not necessarily your good self - don't seem like fans of Joy Division or New Order, which - I'd argue - means they're perhaps not aware of the influence those bands had on similar artists of that genre.

On topic: Hooky is certainly on poor form in the video posted originally in this thread, so I understand why he's copping for a lot of flak here. I'd argue that doesn't mean he's not an influential bassist - because for me, being influential and being a 'good' musician don't always go hand-in-hand, rightly or wrongly.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Skol303' post='1138666' date='Feb 23 2011, 03:06 PM']^ Spot on.

I mean, if you're a lover of jazz or soft rock, then Peter Hook probably won't mean much to you.

If, like me, you were weaned on acid house and the early 'Manchester Sound' then the likes of Hooky and Joy Division / New Order will be up there in your own personal Hall of Fame.

I'm just wondering whether those of us who are questioning Joy Division's influence really know much about the band or the genres of music they clearly DID influence? No disrespect meant by that... I, for example, don't know the first thing about jazz so I wouldn't feel comfortable waxing lyrical about whether a particular jazz bassist was influential or not.

If you can't hum the bassline to Blue Monday off the top of your head, for instance, then I'd argue you're probably not qualified to comment on the influence of New Order/JD! Again, no offence intended ;-)[/quote]
LoL I hope that's not aimed at me too.
I was weaned on John Peel and got my 1st JD album about 1980. I loosely followed NO although I never bought any of their stuff because it was too main-steam (hence their commercial success which some on here seem to find relevant to this conversation).
My tastes in music are best described as varied but non-commercial and in most cases the heavier the better.

For me, to say Hooky influenced modern bass guitar music is as digressive as saying Tony Heart influenced the YBAs. Yep they enjoyed him on the telly and never missed a show (hell, maybe Damien Hirst even sent a macaroni collage in ) but they went on to learn the trade and find themselves.
It would be reasonable to assume that anyone who picked up a bass after listening to Hooky and stuck with it beyond his level (basic) actually had a talent for it and would have found other more profoundly influential influences on their voyage to finding themselves.

[quote name='MB1' post='1138713' date='Feb 23 2011, 03:31 PM']MB1.
He is LOCAL![/quote]
Can you go knock on his door and tell him to come and sort this lot out then Martin.

[MB1]

[quote name='Ou7shined' date='Feb 23 2011, 04:47 PM' post='1138803']
LoL I hope that's not aimed at me too.
I was weaned on John Peel and got my 1st JD album about 1980. I loosely followed NO although I never bought any of their stuff because it was too main-steam (hence their commercial success which some on here seem to find relevant to this conversation).
My tastes in music are best described as varied but non-commercial and in most cases the heavier the better.

For me, to say Hooky influenced modern bass guitar music is as digressive as saying Tony Heart influenced the YBAs. Yep they enjoyed him on the telly and never missed a show (hell, maybe Damien Hirst even sent a macaroni collage in ) but they went on to learn the trade and find themselves.
It would be reasonable to assume that anyone who picked up a bass after listening to Hooky and stuck with it beyond his level (basic) actually had a talent for it and would have found other more profoundly influential influences on their voyage to finding themselves.


Can you go knock on his door and tell him to come and sort this lot out then Martin.


MB1.
Next time he passes our house on his pushbike i'll let him know!

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1138803' date='Feb 23 2011, 04:47 PM']It would be reasonable to assume that anyone who picked up a bass after listening to Hooky and stuck with it beyond his level (basic) actually had a talent for it and would have found other more profoundly influential influences on their voyage to finding themselves.[/quote]

I wouldn't say that's reasonable at all. And what do you mean by 'basic'? Are you implying that the only good bass lines are fiddly ones? If so, then Hooky and quite a few other influential bass players (i.e. J J Burnel) have no value?

[buff]

You got to feel sorry for Hooky though, because if he had any real talent. He would obviously be on here all the time

[Sonic_Groove]

[quote name='buff' post='1138857' date='Feb 23 2011, 05:16 PM']You got to feel sorry for Hooky though, because if he had any real talent. He would obviously be on here all the time [/quote]

Class

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='1138835' date='Feb 23 2011, 05:05 PM']I wouldn't say that's reasonable at all. And what do you mean by 'basic'? Are you implying that the only good bass lines are fiddly ones? If so, then Hooky and quite a few other influential bass players (i.e. J J Burnel) have no value?[/quote]
Nope I'm not saying that. I am categorically saying (not implying) that he isn't very good. I'm not saying that what he comes up with sometimes isn't bad though - I have even gone as far as paying him for his bother on occasions. He plays as good as he needs to. I've never seen any him evolve beyond that which he needs for his style of playing. Most of us have had to struggle to get better and better so we can deliver our best effort when we get our big break. Hooky achieved fame and fortune (???) early into his foray into music and stuck - perhaps by design, perhaps by reaching the zenith of his talent.

Please take 10 seconds to understand what I'm saying rather than opposing it because you think I'm flaming the man.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='buff' post='1138857' date='Feb 23 2011, 05:16 PM']You got to feel sorry for Hooky though, because if he had any real talent. He would obviously be on here all the time [/quote]

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='MB1' post='1138815' date='Feb 23 2011, 04:54 PM']MB1.
Next time he passes our house on his pushbike i'll let him know! [/quote]

[nick]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1138973' date='Feb 23 2011, 06:26 PM']Nope I'm not saying that. I am categorically saying (not implying) that he isn't very good. I'm not saying that what he comes up with sometimes isn't bad though - I have even gone as far as paying him for his bother on occasions. He plays as good as he needs to. I've never seen any him evolve beyond that which he needs for his style of playing. Most of us have had to struggle to get better and better so we can deliver our best effort when we get our big break. Hooky achieved fame and fortune (???) early into his foray into music and stuck - perhaps by design, perhaps by reaching the zenith of his talent.

Please take 10 seconds to understand what I'm saying rather than opposing it because you think I'm flaming the man.[/quote]

I think you're summed it up well there, bang-on & I'm a NO & JD fan myself. When I first picked up a bass, found Hooky quite inspirational. After all, he did up the profile of bass guitar in a genre other than funk or jazz etc, where the instrument had a lot more recognition.

Despite being well into New Order right up until their demise, must admit the obligatory high end chorused lead bass playing started to bore me. Suppose I tend to prefer more of their stuff where you don't hear pretty much the same bass riff, guess more of the electronic dancey side of their material. Also got the impression from comments made by Barney at various points in their career that even he might have fancied hearing something different basswise.

What he's doing in that clip from OP is just awful.

Edited February 23, 2011 by nick

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1138973' date='Feb 23 2011, 06:26 PM']Nope I'm not saying that. I am categorically saying (not implying) that he isn't very good. I'm not saying that what he comes up with sometimes isn't bad though - I have even gone as far as paying him for his bother on occasions. He plays as good as he needs to. I've never seen any him evolve beyond that which he needs for his style of playing. Most of us have had to struggle to get better and better so we can deliver our best effort when we get our big break. Hooky achieved fame and fortune (???) early into his foray into music and stuck - perhaps by design, perhaps by reaching the zenith of his talent.

Please take 10 seconds to understand what I'm saying rather than opposing it because you think I'm flaming the man.[/quote]

I don't think you're flaming him. Perhaps it's just a case that he's stuck to a style he likes to play? He's not the only bass player out there to do that. His playing has evolved over time, but his overall style is in a certain niche. You can, after all, usually recognise his sound and style. Whether that makes him good or not is, as I've said, probably down to one man's poison being another man's meat.