Jaco's Sound

[risingson]

Like or dislike his tone, there's little arguing that he pioneered the one of the most recognisable and widely imitated electric bass sound ever conceived. There's only a handful of bass players that can boast that kind of accolade.

[OzMike]

For me whenever I hear 'back pickup + fretless Jazz', it always reminds me Jaco in the same way that hearing muted trumpet reminds me of Miles. And I think most musicians can separate a musician's choice of delivery / choice of expression from their compositional / improvising ability. I'm not overly-enamoured with Jack Bruce's 'blat' bass tone, but he's nonetheless one of my favourite bass players.

[Musicman20]

I have limited knowledge on Jaco's music, but I have listened to it and seen videos of his playing.

When I started bass at 13/14, I had a really great tutor, who pushed me to play more than just rock/grunge (I was a big Nirvava/Smashing Pumpkins fan at that age, I guess I still am!) and it worked. I wish Id taken his advice and picked up fingerstyle much earlier in my life.

Now Im more mature, I can appreciate a great bassist who isnt playing the genre I tend to listen to. I remember him distinctly talking about Jaco.

He still plays and teaches in my area. In fact, at one point he was in the orchestra supporting Blur on their UK tour. Ahhh, the days of Brit Pop!

Oh, another thing. Back then I never really understood why someone would solo the pickups on a Jazz, as I liked the scooped grind of both pups. Tone control? Meh, all the way up. Now? Now I get it, and that back pickup tone always sticks in my head. When testing Jazz basses, its the first thing I listen to. Ive also learnt to use the tone control

Edited February 25, 2011 by Musicman20

[chris_b]

I don't listen to the sound of JP but to what he plays. I think his unique use of the fretless, chords and harmonics are very interesting but none of these would make me want to sound or play like him though.

[wateroftyne]

Jaco's not above criticism - no-one is.

I have a lot of respect for him, but I don't really listen to a lot of his stuff. I've got the Joni Mitchell records.

For an idea of how Jaco handled more straight-ahead rock, look up All American Alien Boy by Ian Hunter (it was on YouTube, but it's been pulled).

[purpleblob]

I was always more into Stanley Clarke's tone than Jaco's but equally I always felt that Jaco's tone sounded perfect for the music he played. To my mind it's more about the overall sound of a song/tune and I cannot imagine "come on come over" (for example) with a deep bass or Pino's 80's fretless sound. Not saying it wouldn't work, but I think it's pretty much perfect as is.

Disclaimer: I also like marmite

EDIT: Although I must admit there's a clip on youtube somewhere (I don't have access to youtube at the moment) which someone playing Come on, Come over on a Wal fretless and that really sounds fantastic

Edited February 25, 2011 by purpleblob

[Jerry_B]

At the end of the day it boils down to what inspires you and what interests you. It's a matter of taste. To be honest, Jaco's work does nothing whatsoever for me. And before you ask, yes, I have listened to what he's created. Being a fretless player, I've done my research But at the end of the day I just don't find any of it inspiring to me personally.

Thankfully, playing the bass covers a wide area of tones, playing styles, etc.. People can like or dislike what they want, depending on what gets their juices flowing

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='1140874' date='Feb 25 2011, 09:45 AM']At the end of the day it boils down to what inspires you and what interests you. It's a matter of taste. To be honest, Jaco's work does nothing whatsoever for me. And before you ask, yes, I have listened to what he's created. Being a fretless player, I've done my research But at the end of the day I just don't find any of it inspiring to me personally.

Thankfully, playing the bass covers a wide area of tones, playing styles, etc.. People can like or dislike what they want, depending on what gets their juices flowing [/quote]


Exactly. Bit of a silly thread.

[Clarky]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='1140880' date='Feb 25 2011, 09:48 AM']Exactly. Bit of a silly thread.[/quote]
Yep, much like the recent Peter Hook thread (and dozens before it on Mark King, Flea, Victor Wooten, Hadrien Feraud , blah, blah)

[Bilbo]

I went through an ardent Jaco phase, not in an imitative sense but in the sense that he was one of four bass players who made me aware of the potential of our instrument beyond the bounds of the Rock I was then listening to (the other 3 were Jeff Berlin, Percy Jones and Jimmy Johnson). For a while there, I ought almost everything Jaco had ever done and soon realised that he had his limts (lots of licks and [i]serious[/i] repetition) but I also realised that his 'tone' was not a single sound but a range of sounds. The one everyone thinks of is the 'A Remark You Made' 'mwah' sound that defined a generation of players but there was also the much tighter sounds he used for funk grooves, the harmonics thing, the distorted Hendrix 'Third Stone' thing, the wooly 'Chromatic Fantasy' sound etc etc. There was also his conscious changing of tone within a line (watch his right hand in videos of 'The Chicken'). He played on some of the greatest fusion albums ever and made his mark as a leader (his main three solo cds are top drawer not just because of the bass playing but because of the music) and as a sideman in all sorts of settings but, as he got ill, he got lazy, lost his 'muse' and just kept regurgitating his own stuff (he played for the applause and that was all he got).

He was, at different points in his career, a great player, a great musican and a real icon for us as players. Like Hendrix, Coltrane, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Miles, Jimmy Blanton and Scott LaFaro etc there was bass before Jaco and bass after. Its as simple as that. His isn't the only iconic bass sound but it is undoubtedly one of the most distinctive and influential.

As for Stanley Clarke, his sound was the [i]absence[/i] of tone.

[Doctor J]

I quite like his tone, even if it's not something I'd live with personally. He still had a lot of body, it wasn't a thin sound. A lot of the bridge pickup imitators have a weedy, ball-less tone but Jaco's still had a bit of ooomph behind it.

[purpleblob]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1140896' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:06 AM']Yep, much like the recent Peter Hook thread (and dozens before it on Mark King, Flea, Victor Wooten, Hadrien Feraud , blah, blah)[/quote]

Was going to say much the same - aren't 90% of all threads on the internet a "bit silly"

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='purpleblob' post='1140907' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:21 AM']Was going to say much the same - aren't 90% of all threads on the internet a "bit silly" [/quote]
Probably 99%.

However, I'm confused about the thread title and the OP. Is the implication that it is unkind not to like Jaco's tone?

Edited February 25, 2011 by EssentialTension

[Bilbo]

I think the point was some people slag of his tone but shouldn't because it is iconic.

I think there is sometimes something of the anti-hero thing going on here. 'Everyone likes X so I won't' kind of thing. Happens with all the great technicians on every instrument.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1140919' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:30 AM']I think the point was some people slag of his tone but shouldn't because it is iconic.

I think there is sometimes something of the anti-hero thing going on here. 'Everyone likes X so I won't' kind of thing. Happens with all the great technicians on every instrument.[/quote]
Rob, I take that point but surely one can recognise Jaco's historical importance and influence, his iconic status, his technical ability, but still not be personally enamoured of his playing or of his tone - which I know was not always the same.

Those other people you mention - Hendrix, Coltrane, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Miles, Jimmy Blanton and Scott LaFaro - all move me much more than Jaco ever did.

[BigRedX]

If you're an artist with an original voice you are going to attract criticism.

Also no matter how talented you are there are always going to be more people in the world who don't like what you did/are doing than who like it. Add to that the fact that people are more likely to complain about stuff they don't like, than rave about stuff they do. That's how it is.

As an artist you either have/grow a thick skin and shrug it off, or pack it in. TBH I don't have time for whinging artists, these days it should be obvious what they're getting into. If they don't have the stomach for a bit of unconstructive criticism, then make way for someone who does. Anyone who's influenced by a few unkind comments on YouTube isn't much of a artist or a fan.

Plus Jaco's dead. He doesn't care anymore what we think of him.

A quick trawl through Off-Topic will show that Pete Academy has a long history of getting worked up about issues that he has little influence over. If I was one of his band members or co-workers I would be a little concerned about his mental and physical health (all that impotent rage has to go somewhere and I doubt that an internet forum is sufficient release), but since I'm not I don't really care any more than to write this single post.

[4000]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1140899' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:12 AM']As for Stanley Clarke, his sound was the [i]absence[/i] of tone. [/quote]

And yet, in its earlier incarnations at least, it's one of my all-time favourites. Which of course goes to show how subjective it all is.

[4000]

[quote name='thodrik' post='1140670' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:42 PM']I do like Jaco but I must say I think that the 'playing back pickup on a jazz bass' has been really overdone in recent years. Some people seem to have a 'back pickup brigade' mentality' implying that anybody that does not use the back pickup or love the sound of it played solo does not have any talent or appreciation for music. I find the sound to be a bit weedy myself and find it a bit strange when the burpy sound is described as a 'growl'.

That said though, a lot of the back pickup fetish is down to the influence of Jaco himself. He was an amazing player, pushed the idea of the bass as a lead instrument forward and influenced many.[/quote]

Absolutely.

BTW I want to make it clear I have great respect for him as a musician whilst not really being his biggest fan. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[JTUK]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1140929' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:42 AM']A quick trawl through Off-Topic will show that Pete Academy has a long history of getting worked up about issues that he has little influence over. If I was one of his band members or co-workers I would be a little concerned about his mental and physical health (all that impotent rage has to go somewhere and I doubt that an internet forum is sufficient release), but since I'm not I don't really care any more than to write this single post.[/quote]


I don't think that is fair at all. I think he ( Pete ) is just putting up a thread about a MAJOR contributor to the bass guitar.
I don't think you have to like Jaco, but you should be aware of his lead.
Virtually no one can play fretless without a nod to him, IMV.

There are very few bassists that took the bass to a whole new area ...and spawned a thousand immitators
and Jaco was one of them, IMO

I think you can hate him and loathe his sound but you can't deny his position in the world of bass.
Very very influencial and major player.

As for the OP, he may post a lot of stylistic threads, but that is just his influences and his desire to share, IMO
I think he is a most valid poster and if it were me, I'd be thinking why bother after such a churlish remark.

Edited February 25, 2011 by JTUK

[wateroftyne]

This whole thread could have been avoided if Pete had finished typing after the first line of his OP. That would have summed it all up.


[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1140418' date='Feb 24 2011, 08:58 PM']I've recently noticed that some people are not fans of Jaco's sound. Fair enough.[/quote]

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1140963' date='Feb 25 2011, 11:03 AM']This whole thread could have been avoided if Pete had finished typing after the first line of his OP. That would have summed it all up.[/quote]
Fair enough indeed.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1140929' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:42 AM']If you're an artist with an original voice you are going to attract criticism.

Also no matter how talented you are there are always going to be more people in the world who don't like what you did/are doing than who like it. Add to that the fact that people are more likely to complain about stuff they don't like, than rave about stuff they do. That's how it is.

As an artist you either have/grow a thick skin and shrug it off, or pack it in. TBH I don't have time for whinging artists, these days it should be obvious what they're getting into. If they don't have the stomach for a bit of unconstructive criticism, then make way for someone who does. Anyone who's influenced by a few unkind comments on YouTube isn't much of a artist or a fan.

Plus Jaco's dead. He doesn't care anymore what we think of him.

A quick trawl through Off-Topic will show that Pete Academy has a long history of getting worked up about issues that he has little influence over. If I was one of his band members or co-workers I would be a little concerned about his mental and physical health (all that impotent rage has to go somewhere and I doubt that an internet forum is sufficient release), but since I'm not I don't really care any more than to write this single post.[/quote]

Yet again I try to post a legitimate thread and get these kind of comments.

For your interest, my mental faculties are pretty much OK.

And again it seems that the thread has been misconstrued. Apologies if people thought it was another 'who's the best player' thread. And I wasn't denigrating anyone's technique.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1140919' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:30 AM']I think there is sometimes something of the anti-hero thing going on here. 'Everyone likes X so I won't' kind of thing. Happens with all the great technicians on every instrument.[/quote]

Yes, and it happens to iconic songs as well, for example Mustang Sally, All Right Now, Sweet Home Alabahma, etc., but best not start on that old chestnut again.

Ooops - I just did.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Count Bassy' post='1141012' date='Feb 25 2011, 11:40 AM']Yes, and it happens to iconic songs as well, for example Mustang Sally, All Right Now, Sweet Home Alabahma, etc., but best not start on that old chestnut again.

Ooops - I just did.[/quote]

Murrrch Ftumch Gnerrrspyth!!

(Bilbo biting his tongue)

[LawrenceH]

I think it's a fair point for discussion - it boils down to what constitutes great tone.

For me, it's whatever conveys the music and it has as much if not more to do with the balance of a mix, as how it sounds in isolation.
But. If you're a dedicated follower of a particular fashion your ideas of what 'tone' is about will be fixed within a style of arranging and production. My grandad hated all pop music because after years of classical music his ears could never adjust to the continual sound of drums being so high in the mix and that was all he heard. If you get beyond that then there are so many tones that 'work' in a given context.

Personally, I love the deep, dead p sound of Deacon's Queen parts, I love Bernie Edward's 'ray driving the funk, I love Larry Graham's 2-pup 60s jazz bark, and loads more that are each totally different. Jaco's burpy tone on something like the Chicken live on Invitation is perfect for that song and that part. A bassier, less articulate sound would lose the expressive, percussive rhythm of the part. But if you asked him to play with that tone instead, he'd probably also have altered what he played accordingly to make it work a different way.