I want to complain

[icastle]

[quote name='redstriper' post='1145192' date='Feb 28 2011, 10:54 PM']Yes, I take your point - I've been silly haven't I................ and in public too [/quote]

In fairness, part of what you are looking for certainly isn't beyond the realms of reasonable.

I managed a music shop back in the 80's and if you'd expressed an interest in a particular bass and wanted to put your own set of strings on it to try it out, then I'd have gone along with it.
I'd have drawn the line at me supplying the strings out of my own pocket, although I'd have bunged in a set to sweeten the deal.

We used to stock a pretty good range of bass strings but only ever had two sets of Fender flats and one set of Picato's - they just hung there on the pegboard for the three years I was there.
Mind you, just about everyone was using those .030 Superwound FunkMasters at the time - it was like stroking cheese wire...

[KiOgon]

One of the salesmen in Bonners of Eastbourne told me "you can't re-fit strings that have been used before, they just break".
I don't bother them with my custom any more.

[danhkr]

Flats are expensive and guitar companies will (usually) stick on a basic cheap set knowing (a) they'll probably get changed for the buyers preferred gauge/brand anyway and (b ) saving even a few pence on each set saves them a fortune in the long-run.

I understand the frustrations of flats users, but I use 50-110 roundwounds and no bass comes with them either.

Edited March 1, 2011 by danhkr

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1145094' date='Feb 28 2011, 09:51 PM']All that Aberdeen Angus on the door step going to waste! Keep sending it down here Rich [/quote]
Yep I certainly chose the wrong place to be a non-meat eater. I actually used to work on a AA fam in the sumer hollidays when I was a kid but most of the coos you see around here now are of French and Dutch origin.

Not a lot of people know that.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='danhkr' post='1145597' date='Mar 1 2011, 12:04 PM']Flats are expensive.....[/quote]
Flats aren't expensive. Status Hotwires are only £ 13.99 and are very very very good.

(Jeez I should be on a commission from Status )

It's a myth that only the £30+ brands so often machinated about on here are the only worth while ones to get.

[spinynorman]

Simple rule of thumb when trying a bass in a shop (assuming you can find one to try). If it sounds ok with rounds it'll sound better with flats.

[icastle]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1145440' date='Mar 1 2011, 09:57 AM']You always get the "We can't do any better the price is cut to compete with the internet blah blah higher overheads blah"[/quote]

I always attack it from the other direction.

I'll already know the internet price and add the P&P to that figure - I tell them what that price is and let them know that if they can get close to it they might have a sale.
I also tell them that I know they have overheads so I'm prepared to be a little bit flexible on how close they can get.

If they quibble then I walk.

[redstriper]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='1145732' date='Mar 1 2011, 01:49 PM']Simple rule of thumb when trying a bass in a shop (assuming you can find one to try). If it sounds ok with rounds it'll sound better with flats. [/quote]

True.

And I agree flats needn't be expensive, I like GHS precisions which I buy from the states [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GHS-PRECISION-BASS-STRINGS-FLATWOUND-M3050-1-SETS-/170554363653#ht_500wt_922"]here[/url] at about £17.00 including postage.

There are excellent cheaper brands available too and I don't think the cost is a reason for suppliers not to fit them.
I think bass manufacturers and retailers are out of touch with the demand for flats, partly because we all accept that they aren't readily available and don't even ask for them.

[MythSte]

[quote name='icastle' post='1145742' date='Mar 1 2011, 01:56 PM']I always attack it from the other direction.

I'll already know the internet price and add the P&P to that figure - I tell them what that price is and let them know that if they can get close to it they might have a sale.
I also tell them that I know they have overheads so I'm prepared to be a little bit flexible on how close they can get.

If they quibble then I walk.[/quote]

I was in Dawsons the other day and I had a go on the new Fender American Special Jazz they had in there. Lovely bass it was as well! I asked them what the best price they could do it for would be and the guy said he couldnt move on Fenders as they made so little money on them, the only reason they stocked them was so that people would take them seriously because "everyone wants a Fender". Is there any truth in this do you think?

He was a nice chap otherwise and I dont think he was being a douche!

[icastle]

[quote name='MythSte' post='1145768' date='Mar 1 2011, 02:14 PM']I was in Dawsons the other day and I had a go on the new Fender American Special Jazz they had in there. Lovely bass it was as well! I asked them what the best price they could do it for would be and the guy said he couldnt move on Fenders as they made so little money on them, the only reason they stocked them was so that people would take them seriously because "everyone wants a Fender". Is there any truth in this do you think?

He was a nice chap otherwise and I dont think he was being a douche![/quote]

My experience with Arbiter many years ago was that they actively dissuaded discounting - essentially 'discount our products and you'll lose your franchise'.
Not sure if that's still true.

There has to be a certain degree of markup on a product to make it worthwhile selling.
If the distributor makes it too high then they create price wars, if they make it too low then, even with the Fender name, they're not going to get any takers.

My own approach would have been to have sold you the bass at the marked price and just sweeted the deal with a few sets of strings - if the bass was £800 and I gave you £80 worth of strings, you've got the bass for £720 but that £80 discount would only have cost me about £40.

[icastle]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1145868' date='Mar 1 2011, 03:05 PM']I would usually factor in the postage price though as the mainland charges a fortune to get stuff here. I'm usually happy to pay a bit over the online price to get the one I played and was happy with.

BUT

When a shop quotes you a firm best they can do £330 for a Squier CV but it will take 6 weeks at and then add the £15 return on the bus for myself and the Mrs whilst the same time Thomanns was around £250 inc free postage with a 3 day delivery. If the shop wants a deposit to make sure you take home which ever one they get in etc what you gonna do??

Incidentally the shop did offer to get it in just for me to try as I said I didn't want to part with money until I did. If they had have I would have likely bought it from them anyway. Unfortunately I'm still waiting on the "it's in" call nearly a year down the line.[/quote]

Yeah.
Your 'BUT' part would be the killer for me.
As much as I like to support local retailers, I'd have to choose Thomann's and take a punt on the quality if the instrument.

Luckily for me when I moved up here from 'daaan souf' I ended up in a village that has had a music festival every summer for nearly 20 years - I didn't really 'move in' I just sort of crash landed.
There's a small music shop in the next village and I've got to know the owner pretty well - he's the worst salesman in the world so I trust him.
I tell him what I want and how much money I'm gonna give him and he sorts it out for me.

[risingson]

[quote name='MythSte' post='1145768' date='Mar 1 2011, 02:14 PM']I was in Dawsons the other day and I had a go on the new Fender American Special Jazz they had in there. Lovely bass it was as well! I asked them what the best price they could do it for would be and the guy said he couldnt move on Fenders as they made so little money on them, the only reason they stocked them was so that people would take them seriously because "everyone wants a Fender". Is there any truth in this do you think?

He was a nice chap otherwise and I dont think he was being a douche![/quote]

Dolphin across the road will tell you the same thing! I don't think everyone wants a Fender (otherwise brands like Lakland wouldn't exist in the world of bass) but it's certainly true that Fender sells because it's a household name and I'm sure that Dawsons and Dolphin will show a high ratio of Fender/Squier sales in direct comparison to other brands, thus making up a lot of the respective shop's turnovers.

[danhkr]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1145647' date='Mar 1 2011, 12:56 PM']Flats aren't expensive. Status Hotwires are only £ 13.99 and are very very very good.

(Jeez I should be on a commission from Status )

It's a myth that only the £30+ brands so often machinated about on here are the only worth while ones to get.[/quote]

That's fair enough, but from a manufacturer or factory point of view, they'll either use the cheapest set they make themselves or source the cheapest set externally. Flats are unlikely to fall into either of these categories.

I also think that members of BC are usually pretty serious players, so whilst maybe a quarter of [i]us[/i] use flats, it's highly debatable whether that many do overall.

Like I said, most players change the factory strings to their own preferred gauge/brand anyway, so manufacturers probably believe it's impossible to please everyone, so they might as well just string em up with whatever works out cheapest for them.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='risingson' post='1146045' date='Mar 1 2011, 04:57 PM']I don't think everyone wants a Fender (otherwise brands like Lakland wouldn't exist in the world of bass)...[/quote]
But manufacturers like Lakland, Sadowsky et al are simply Fenders for people who don't want "Fender" on the Headstock, but do want something better in terms of QC.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='icastle' post='1145231' date='Feb 28 2011, 11:18 PM']I managed a music shop back in the 80's...

We used to stock a pretty good range of bass strings but only ever had two sets of Fender flats and one set of Picato's - they just hung there on the pegboard for the three years I was there.
Mind you, just about everyone was using those .030 Superwound FunkMasters at the time - it was like stroking cheese wire... [/quote]
If the use of flat-wound strings is on the upswing, then we can probably expect to see basses arriving from the factory strung with flats around the time that slap-bass comes back into fashion in a major way.

[stingrayPete1977]

I was thinking about this thread earlier for some unknown reason and it occured to me the poll is totally flawed because it's only a poll of BC members who as we know are bass geeks myself included. If we asked every bass player that went in every shop this weekend from young kids to people who have been playing years I think the 25% would fall to a much smaller percentage giving even more weight to the argument of fitting rounds from new.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1146936' date='Mar 2 2011, 11:38 AM']But manufacturers like Lakland, Sadowsky et al are simply Fenders for people who don't want "Fender" on the Headstock, but do want something better in terms of QC.[/quote]
They (soryy, I mean we) are certainly looking for a Fender aesthetic both in design and sound.

[redstriper]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1147405' date='Mar 2 2011, 05:43 PM']I was thinking about this thread earlier for some unknown reason and it occured to me the poll is totally flawed because it's only a poll of BC members who as we know are bass geeks myself included. If we asked every bass player that went in every shop this weekend from young kids to people who have been playing years I think the 25% would fall to a much smaller percentage giving even more weight to the argument of fitting rounds from new.[/quote]

This poll is obviously flawed, (like any statistics) but it's just that little bit easier than your suggestion.
It would be great if every member of this forum voted, along with every bass player in the world, but realistically this is the closest I can get and I can't force people to vote.
It's us geeks who buy the most basses and related gear anyway and how else could I get any idea of people's preferences?
I meet a lot of bass players who are not members of this forum and I would say the percentage of flat preferers is similar to that in this poll.

Having said that, don't let me stop you asking every bass player in every shop this weekend - and please post the results here so we can compare.
You should also bear in mind that some flatwound lovers (me for one) don't bother with music shops because we are not welcome in such places.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1147493' date='Mar 2 2011, 06:54 PM']do you think so?? When you consider the amount of budget instruments in the market place aimed at the beginners compared to high end gear. Would you not think the market sector the most money gets spent is at the lower end???[/quote]

Just cos you're cheap don't mean you can't be a geek.

And don't presume everyone on here is rich - I've never spent more than £200 on a bass.

Edited March 2, 2011 by redstriper

[redstriper]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1147511' date='Mar 2 2011, 07:01 PM']New thread.

Whats the cheapest bass on flats [/quote]
I might just win that one

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1147493' date='Mar 2 2011, 06:54 PM']do you think so?? When you consider the amount of budget instruments in the market place aimed at the beginners compared to high end gear. Would you not think the market sector the most money gets spent is at the lower end???[/quote]
This +1

[quote name='Johnston' post='1147511' date='Mar 2 2011, 07:01 PM']New thread.

Whats the cheapest bass on flats [/quote]
and this will be a Sue Ryder although my £80 Squier P will be having flats so I'm not far behind.

[risingson]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1146936' date='Mar 2 2011, 11:38 AM']But manufacturers like Lakland, Sadowsky et al are simply Fenders for people who don't want "Fender" on the Headstock, but do want something better in terms of QC.[/quote]

Dolphin Liverpool and Dawsons are high street music stores, and it's been proven that Lakland didn't sell in either store because the majority of people haven't heard of them, quality control doesn't really come into it because whilst you or I might know these brands to be better in terms of QC, a lot of other people don't and want a brand they are familiar with, i.e. Fender.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1147511' date='Mar 2 2011, 07:01 PM']New thread.

Whats the cheapest bass on flats [/quote]

Oh I think my £25 car boot sale fretless wins that one.