Feel and Dynamics

[xilddx]

Do a lot of bass players find it hard to 'feel' what they're playing?

Many of the bassists in bands I see live don't seem to put much feel or dynamics into their playing. They often hit away at notes at about the same volume and they sound like they're MIDIed up or something.

We should probably be using as many tools of expression - grace notes, ghosts, slides, hammers, pull-offs, vibrato, accents - as a good guitarist. I so rarely see/hear players doing that though. It adds so much to the feel of the music. I learned these things as a guitarist long before I started making bass my priority about ten years ago. These things are essential to a guitarist. Do bass tutors teach you these techniques? Would many bassists know what to do with them?

I think these techniques are a often neglected part of every bass players tool kit and they can really help the music to breathe. It's not often discussed on Basschat from what I've seen. I am wondering why? Are they not seen as important to a bassist?

Edited February 27, 2011 by silddx

[icastle]

[quote name='silddx' post='1143431' date='Feb 27 2011, 03:47 PM']I think these techniques are a often neglected part of every bass players tool kit and they can really help the music to breathe. It's not often discussed on Basschat from what I've seen. I am wondering why? Are they not seen as important to a bassist?[/quote]

I know exactly what you mean.
I think the difficulty is that it's easy enough to teach the physical techniques involved but it's down to the individual musician to decide where and how to use those techniques - I don't think you can teach that.
Personally, I find it incredibly frustrating watching people just bashing out the right notes in the right places and totally missing the feel of what they're supposedly part of, and that's not just bass players either!

[risingson]

Failing to note dynamic changes/playing dynamically in a band context are really basic flaws in technique, I can't really play with musicians that don't observe dynamics for too long.

[Pete Academy]

Dynamics is very important. Each band member should be aware of it.

I think it's something learned by gigging a lot.

[stingrayPete1977]

It can be important to just thump along sometimes though, An electro pop sort of thing where the bass is trying to sound almost MIDI'ish like it would on a looped dance record if thats whats keeping all the feet tapping. There are more bass players that cant keep a constant rhythm at a constant dynamic IMO, And its harding than w***ing all over everything in E

[Mr. Foxen]

People like compressors, that do that all the notes the same volume thing, kind of like guitarists that always pay with distortion and never learn to actually play their instrument. I think it might be part and parcel of being in a band to be in a band, go through the motions style, rather than doing it because you have music you need to express.

[Fat Rich]

It's amazing how many bass players don't actually know what they sound like because they don't record themselves very often.

I've lost count of the number of times I've played something with great dynamics, great feel and lots of soul. And then listened back and none of it has come across in the recording and it sounds really ordinary.

Maybe that's part of the reason top session players sound so good, they're always listening back to what they played and improving it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1143570' date='Feb 27 2011, 05:28 PM']It's amazing how many bass players don't actually know what they sound like because they don't record themselves very often.

I've lost count of the number of times I've played something with great dynamics, great feel and lots of soul. And then listened back and none of it has come across in the recording and it sounds really ordinary.

Maybe that's part of the reason top session players sound so good, they're always listening back to what they played and improving it.[/quote]
Ahh, now that is an excellent point!

I've had various portastudios and outboard at home for over 20 years. I learned the basics of how to record instruments and vocal, programme and play drums, and learned to sing. I learned the basics of EQ, compression and mixing. I took a very deep interest in all this and it was natural for me to do so. I have spent countless hours playing and recording and listening and making judgments about the good and bad qualities of how I express myself and the sound quality of everything I did. I learned loads about how the instruments and vocals interracted and loads about dynamics and expression.

I hadn't really considered the enormous value of doing this, I just did out of pure fascination.

[Blademan_98]

I have been recording myself for a while now.

I thought it was just vanity!

Seriously though, I can hear the mistakes and try harder next time

[bassbloke]

Totally in agreement. If a producer wanted bass lacking in dynamics and 'feel' they'd use a sequenced bass part.

[TimR]

The Americans call them internal and external dynamics. I see lots of bands using external dynamics ie loud and quiet passages, but not many using internal dynamics ie different emphasis on each note for individual musicians. Even fewer use legato and staccato.

I think it's just the pervading louder sounds better attitude. Drummers are the worst offenders, keys and guitarists are better but only during solos.

[xilddx]

[quote name='TimR' post='1143791' date='Feb 27 2011, 08:25 PM']The Americans call them internal and external dynamics. I see lots of bands using external dynamics ie loud and quiet passages, but not many using internal dynamics ie different emphasis on each note for individual musicians. Even fewer use legato and staccato.

I think it's just the pervading louder sounds better attitude. Drummers are the worst offenders, keys and guitarists are better but only during solos.[/quote]
Lack of legato and staccato is a particular bugbear of mine. So little use of it.

[endorka]

[quote name='silddx' post='1143840' date='Feb 27 2011, 09:05 PM']Lack of legato and staccato is a particular bugbear of mine. So little use of it.[/quote]

Indeed. As you point out, recording with other instruments helps a great deal with the realisation of this, and what sounds staccato when played with the ensemble sometimes isn't quite as stacatto on the bass, due to the tail of the note being masked by other instruments, such as the snare drum.

All these things are important. A problem is that everyone in the group you are playing with has to be of a sufficient standard for them to make any difference. Even at the basic level of external dymanics, it only takes one insensitive musician to ruin the effect for everyone. Never mind grace notes, vibrato, or playing around with beat placement, all of which will be essentially wasted if someone in the group's timing is poor.

I think you've hit the nail on the head - in the absence of like minded musicians, recording yourself in a controlled environment is probably the best way to develop these skills.

Jennifer

Edited February 27, 2011 by endorka

[essexbasscat]

For some great feel and dynamics (including the drummer !) listen to Time Out by Dave Brubeck's band. +1 to Jennifer too

[dan2112]

I've been taking note of my playing much more recently and I've been doing alot more recording (whether just noodling by my self or band work) and it became apparent that my playing was quite boring. It was very surprising how much a difference little things like a bit of vibrato and some grace notes made to my playing and has really opened up some of my bass lines in the band. And I have noticed that not many bassist use these little techniques which my self was guilty of.

[xilddx]

[quote name='endorka' post='1143989' date='Feb 27 2011, 10:55 PM']Indeed. As you point out, recording with other instruments helps a great deal with the realisation of this, and what sounds staccato when played with the ensemble sometimes isn't quite as stacatto on the bass, due to the tail of the note being masked by other instruments, such as the snare drum.

[b]All these things are important. A problem is that everyone in the group you are playing with has to be of a sufficient standard for them to make any difference. Even at the basic level of external dymanics, it only takes one insensitive musician to ruin the effect for everyone. Never mind grace notes, vibrato, or playing around with beat placement, all of which will be essentially wasted if someone in the group's timing is poor.[/b]

I think you've hit the nail on the head - in the absence of like minded musicians, recording yourself in a controlled environment is probably the best way to develop these skills.

Jennifer[/quote]

Thanks Jennifer.

It's funny, I'm now thinking of things I hadn't considered when I posted this thread. And your passage above is one of them. I think it's become an instinct for me now, I seem to know instantly when someone is going through the motions or really feeling the music. And there is now way I could play happily with people who don't have a good level of feel, expression and sense of dynamics.

Dynamics and feel are a very large part of the composition process for me too. The notes have to fit the dynamic, not the other way around. The dynamic suggests the notes.

[Commando Jack]

Ah grace notes, the word I use for when I accidentally hit the wrong note and quickly correct it!