Cyrene Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hi. Been listening to this on repeat for three days now and loving the tone this guy gets from his bass. I'm assuming he's playing a Jazz but was wondering if he has all three controls turned up playing near the bridge. Can anyone give me an idea how to get this sound. I've tried but it falls short! Either way, if you ain't heard it, do it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I think the bassist will be Brian Odgers. I don't have the track to listen to though. Edited February 28, 2011 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Cyrene' post='1144909' date='Feb 28 2011, 08:13 PM']Hi. Been listening to this on repeat for three days now and loving the tone this guy gets from his bass. I'm assuming he's playing a Jazz but was wondering if he has all three controls turned up playing near the bridge. Can anyone give me an idea how to get this sound. I've tried but it falls short! Either way, if you ain't heard it, do it soon.[/quote] I LOVE this album! Herbie Flowers on bass, always some debate as to whether he used his Jazz or a Burns Bison on the recording. Definately flatwounds with a pick though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1144945' date='Feb 28 2011, 08:41 PM']I think the bassist will be Brian Odgers. I don't have the track to listen to though.[/quote] I've read this also and I believe he's mentioned somewhere in the liner notes, I'm looking now but it's all in french and rather long. Maybe both played on the sessions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Sawtooth' post='1144955' date='Feb 28 2011, 08:52 PM']I've read this also and I believe he's mentioned somewhere in the liner notes, I'm looking now but it's all in french and rather long. Maybe both played on the sessions?[/quote] I've just been checking too since I saw your post. Wikipedia and several other sites say Odgers and so far I've not found a mention of Flowers at all. I had a vinyl of [i]L'Histoire de Melody Nelson[/i] a long time ago and Odgers was retrieved from my memory because I also knew him from John McLaughlin's [i]Extrapolation[/i] album. However my memory is often imperfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrene Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Sawtooth' post='1144950' date='Feb 28 2011, 08:46 PM']I LOVE this album! Herbie Flowers on bass, always some debate as to whether he used his Jazz or a Burns Bison on the recording. Definately flatwounds with a pick though.[/quote] OK... read that it could be either, but didn't even consider he'd be using a pick. Need to get some flats fitted either way. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1144962' date='Feb 28 2011, 08:56 PM']I've just been checking too since I saw your post. Wikipedia and several other sites say Odgers and so far I've not found a mention of Flowers at all. I had a vinyl of [i]L'Histoire de Melody Nelson[/i] a long time ago and Odgers was retrieved from my memory because I also knew him from John McLaughlin's [i]Extrapolation[/i] album. However my memory is often imperfect.[/quote] Yeah, not sure where I read about Flowers now, it was some time ago when I first bought the album. Either way it's some really individual playing and a tone to die for. I'd recommend anyone to check the album out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Ah, one of my favourite bass sounds of all. There's been a few threads about this. Look at this: It's a Burns Bison, palm muted and played with a pick - and likely to be Odgers not Flowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 This is the nearest it gets to a modern version (played by my old friend Sean O'Hagan, as I recently found out while having a pint with him) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Spoombung' post='1145047' date='Feb 28 2011, 09:30 PM']Ah, one of my favourite bass sounds of all. There's been a few threads about this. Look at this: It's a Burns Bison, palm muted and played with a pick - and likely to be Odgers not Flowers[/quote] Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Air do the a similar thing with Mustangs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sawtooth' post='1144982' date='Feb 28 2011, 09:02 PM']Yeah, not sure where I read about Flowers now, it was some time ago when I first bought the album. Either way it's some really individual playing and a tone to die for. I'd recommend anyone to check the album out. [/quote] The clue might be with Jean-Claude Vannier - who pretty much wrote all the music [ bit i did read somewhere ages ago that Herbie Flowers was involved in that also] Jean Claude Vannier used Brian Odgers a lot for all those lavish string laden productions [Jane Birkin & Serge Gainsbourg - Je T'aime to name one] Vannier liked to credit band members - so Google him and you might find out... I can't be arsed at the moment. You can get that sound with a Jazz Bass, Flats and a heavy duty pick played up by the neck. Garry Edited February 28, 2011 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 All I can find in the Liner notes is "L'action est concentree sur la voix de Serge, les counterpoint de Jane, et le trio blues de base (celui de Gainsbourg confidentiel) : guitare, basse, batterie." As I can't read French I can only wildly guess that this translates as .... the voice of Serge, the counterpoint of Jane (Birkin), and a trio .... (kept confidential by Serge?) of guitar, bass and drums???? Can anyone help translate this properly please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I love Mick Harvey's covers of Gainsbourg songs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't think you necessarily need flats to get the sound as some people do. You either need to palm mute or have felt/sponge mutes near the bridge. You need to play with a pick (or forefinger nail) and have a bass with a neck pickup. Don't solo the bridge pick up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Spoombung' post='1145047' date='Feb 28 2011, 09:30 PM']Ah, one of my favourite bass sounds of all. There's been a few threads about this. Look at this: It's a Burns Bison, palm muted and played with a pick - and likely to be Odgers not Flowers[/quote] I love this forum! Edit: a great watch, but not from 'historie de melody nelson' though. Edited February 28, 2011 by Sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrene Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Sawtooth' post='1145078' date='Feb 28 2011, 09:43 PM']I love this forum![/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Wikipedia, Discogs, Beat Patrol and several others all say Odgers. Beat Patrol says: [quote]Even the recording details have a strong, mysterious allure of their own (until recently, the identities of Gainsbourg’s English session musicians, now known to be Vic Flick, Brian Odgers, Big Jim Sullivan, and Dougie Wright, were uncommon knowledge).[/quote] Wikipedia says: [quote]Alan Parker - guitar; Brian Odgers - bass; Douglas Wright - drums; Alan Hawkshaw - piano; Jean-Claude Vannier - arrangements, Orchestra Director; Jane Birkin - vocal parts (and posed for front cover art)[/quote] So, who knows? Edited February 28, 2011 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Sawtooth' post='1145078' date='Feb 28 2011, 09:43 PM']I love this forum! Edit: a great watch, but not from 'historie de melody nelson' though.[/quote] Sure, but I'm assuming that's the sound everyone's after! It really is one of the greatest bass sounds in history - but it's all about context, y'know. There were a few bassists playing like that at the time that were never heard next to loud, bluesy, boring guitarists. You can hear Odgers next to the strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1145089' date='Feb 28 2011, 09:47 PM']Wikipedia, Discogs, Beat Patrol and several others all say Odgers.[/quote] Cool! I must check out some more of his work. I was just debating which flatwounds to buy after reading Basschat posts most of the weekend when I spotted this topic, talk about fate. I have whittled it down to Labellas 1954 or Pyramid Golds. Or Ti's Choices, choices ... Edit :Which would work with fingerstyle and a pick best for this sort of sound? (sorry to hijack the thread) Edited February 28, 2011 by Sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Sawtooth' post='1145108' date='Feb 28 2011, 10:01 PM']Cool! I must check out some more of his work. I was just debating which flatwounds to buy after reading Basschat posts most of the weekend when I spotted this topic, talk about fate. I have whittled it down to Labellas 1954 or Pyramid Golds. Or Ti's Choices, choices ... Edit :Which would work with fingerstyle and a pick best for this sort of sound? (sorry to hijack the thread)[/quote] The flatwounds being used in the 1960s are likely to have been La Bellas or Pyramids (or possibly one or two other makes but similar). I don't think TIs were available then and they are rather different to the La Bellas and the Pyramids. La Bellas (especially the 54 set) and the Pyramids are higher tension whereas the TIs are very low tension. The La Bellas and especially the Pyramids can sound dead straight out of the packet whereas the TIs are relatively bright and middy. For that 1960s with a pick sound I'd go for the La Bella 760FL (not the 54s) or the Pyramids or also worth a try are the GHS Precision flats. But that's not to say anything against the TIs which are fantastic strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1145129' date='Feb 28 2011, 10:09 PM']The flatwounds being used in the 1960s are likely to have been La Bellas or Pyramids (or possibly one or two other makes but similar). I don't think TIs were available then and they are rather different to the La Bellas and the Pyramids. La Bellas (especially the 54 set) and the Pyramids are higher tension whereas the TIs are very low tension. The La Bellas and especially the Pyramids can sound dead straight out of the packet whereas the TIs are relatively bright and middy. For that 1960s with a pick sound I'd go for the La Bella 760FL (not the 54s) or the Pyramids or also worth a try are the GHS Precision flats. But that's not to say anything against the TIs which are fantastic strings.[/quote] The 760 FL's are a lighter guage than the '54's then? I really play fingerstyle blues more than anything and that led me to '54's and the golds. I probably got a bit carried away on the wave of this thread! Edit: thanks for your advice! Edited February 28, 2011 by Sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 [quote name='Sawtooth' post='1145140' date='Feb 28 2011, 10:18 PM']The 760 FL's are a lighter guage than the '54's then? I really play fingerstyle blues more than anything and that led me to '54's and the golds. I probably got a bit carried away on the wave of this thread! Edit: thanks for your advice![/quote] The 760FL will be very fine for fingerstyle blues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1145150' date='Feb 28 2011, 10:22 PM']The 760FL will be very fine for fingerstyle blues.[/quote] Yes, a lighter guage is maybe the way to go as I have A G&L L1000 through an Ampeg B100r (b-15 copy) and was wondering about too much bottom end? Although maybe I'm talking crap as that didn't bother James Jamerson + co. Maybe I'm researching too much and should just order something and try them for myself !!! Cheers, Dave. Edit: update - Pyramid Golds ordered. Edited March 1, 2011 by Sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheeledwriter Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Having discovered Melody Nelson during my time in France, I thought that Herbie Flowers was involved with it. This was based on a discussion with a French friend who was a big fan. On a side note, if you are at all interested in Serge Gainsbourg, you should really check out "Aux Armes Etc", his reggae album recorded in Kingston (Jamaica, not Surrey) with Sly and Robbie and other reggae luminaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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