New Genz Streamliner 900 in the house!

[stingrayPete1977]

Nice one mate where did you go in the end? I hear them Uber cabs are another level of awesome compared to anything else even Bergantino which I also love, from the sounds of things you feel the same?

[dave_bass5]

Just finished my fist gig with my 600 and the jury is still out.
It was a very nice tone, no doubt, and quite different from my SA4500 so it will take a few gigs to get used to it.

I do think i need a 900 though so i will will look in to trading the 600 in fi i can. Tone wise it was nice, each note had authority and although different to what im used ot hearing, it made a nice change but i cant help feeling im going to run out of headroom at some of my bigger gigs.

The amp cut out a couple of times during one number where i was slapping hard (i dont make a habbit of doing this) Although the peak LED was lighting up im not sure if it was the amp or my radio system cutting out, it has done this in the past so maybe it wasnt the amp. I had no other problems with the amp though and i dont for one min think the amp is faulty.

Edited May 1, 2011 by dave_bass5

[JTUK]

Dave..I can't imagine why the amp may be running out of steam..I have done two outdoors gigs with a 400w amp not noted for its power this weekend, and that worked fine. Stonking bass ( slap ) sound on the second...and I have no idea how I arrived at it as I ran the same EQ..??
We couldn't be any louder without blowing our sound ..and our ears ...

I often think I would like a bit more headroom, but fear if I upscale to a 500w plus amp... my 2 12's will be in trouble.

I now work on the basis that if my rig sounds strained, then we are too loud for no PA support.
Our drummer is very powerful but there is not point blowing him out of the mix..so we turn down.

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1216312' date='May 1 2011, 08:16 AM']....I can't imagine why the amp may be running out of steam....[/quote]
+1
My guess is that you are playing at the same volume with both amps? That's probably running at less than 200 watts. So the maximum for either amp should be way beyond what you will ever need or use. Is the SL600 as strong in the mids as the Markbass? Maybe you just need to eq less bass and more mids so that your cabs can punch through like you're used to.

If you're thinking you need more for bigger gigs then I'd suggest upgrading your cabs before the amp.

[dave_bass5]

I might just be jumping the gun a bit. Seeing as this was in a tent i would expect to turn up a bit more than in a indoor venue.
Normally my 500watt SA450 never goes over halfway so while the 600 coped just as well I was worried that the peak LED came on a few times with the master below halfway.
Its probably down to how I had the input set. With the gain on 11 and pre on 2-3 the input on the desk was also peaking, and this was with the input gain turned right down.
I also had the gain button in so that didn't help.
I'm sure this amp will be fine for most of our gigs but I am looking in to maybe doing a trade in if it doesn't cost me too much.

[dave_bass5]

Thanks Chris.
I would say the MB is thicker and fills out the low mids more. The 600 has a more articulate tone, lots of mids but not in a muddy way, so there is more space in the lower freqs of the mix.
I'm happy with the tone and maybe I need to adjust to the different tone. I might then end up not pushing the amp too hard.
The cab has loads of mids so it wast a case of not cutting through or not being heard, more a case of a bit bass light.
I have also been using a BDDI recently and didn't last night so again, a tone I'm not yet familiar with.

Changing the cab isn't really an option as I can't afford to , and I can't really get anything bigger. I do know that a bigger cab will help but I've been using the 1212L for a few years and I know it's good enough for most of our gigs.

Edited May 1, 2011 by dave_bass5

[JTUK]

Or...these are just teething problems with a new amp and you'll work out what works best over a period of time.
New amps and nuances....?? if the core sounds are there you might just need a bit more time on it..and we never get enough time at gigs to do this..and then dynamics change etc etc .. and everything is not as familiar as we would want..

More man hours, maybe..?

I can also see a cab change ...maybe but concentrate on one thing at a time.
FWIW...212's and 500w is as much as you want to go, IMV.

[dave_bass5]

I think you are right John. I just need to get used to it.
It was a good tone and I'm very happy with the amp, I just can't help worrying about that peak LED coming on so early.
Seing as both my rigs for the past few years have been 500watts in to one 12xx cab I know it's loud enough, I just don't want to get any dirtier.

[Raggy]

Dave, I asked Roger over on TB about the light coming on as was told "The light just means you're engaging the 3dPM section"

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Raggy' post='1216701' date='May 1 2011, 05:31 PM']Dave, I asked Roger over on TB about the light coming on as was told "The light just means you're engaging the 3dPM section"[/quote]

Thanks for that, I feel a bit better about it now.
I guess this might be the one advantage the 600 has over the 900 for smaller gigs.
I did sound good, whatever was happening.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1216826' date='May 1 2011, 07:55 PM']Thanks for that, I feel a bit better about it now.
I guess this might be the one advantage the 600 has over the 900 for smaller gigs.
I did sound good, whatever was happening.[/quote]

This is what concerns me about changing to a 900 or shuttle 9.0 because at low volumes the lowest the 6.0 goes with my 2x12 is quite loud still, If that bottom limit shifts up with the 900 or 9.0 's it wouldnt help for the smaller venues. That peak light is nothing to worry about at all IMO and like others have said your cabs are going to hold back any extra power from another amp.

As for the desk were you pre or post gain on your DI?

[dave_bass5]

I understand about too much volume can damage the speakers but the way I'm seeing it is I want to be a le to reduce the input stage and have the gain button out, without loosing volume.
I think to do this I need to turn the output up quite high to match the level with the button in and gain up at about 11 o'clock if that makes sence.
The gigs I do would never require me to turn up enough to damage the cab.

At least using a lower powered version gives me the chance to use the 3D power management feature.

The DI out is pre or post EQ and it's the gain and pre knobs that seems to determine the output level through the DI. I was running it post though and will try pre next time but as it's a vocal PA and im just going through it for a bt more spread I normally go post on my SA450 to get a better tone.
I tried everything flat onthe 600 but it still clipped the input (both mic and line level).

Edited May 1, 2011 by dave_bass5

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1216863' date='May 1 2011, 08:30 PM']I understand about too much volume can damage the speakers but the way I'm seeing it is [u]I want to be a le to reduce the input stage[/u] and have the gain button out, without loosing volume.
I think to do this I need to turn the output up quite high to match the level with the button in and gain up at about 11 o'clock if that makes sence.[/quote]

Why would you want to lower the input gain and balance it by increasing the output to where it is clipping? If the input is suitably matched to the output from your bass then you should have a nice healthy signal that need not be too thick as to sound overdriven. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to achieve.

[Musicman20]

Hopefully with a big of fiddling you will get there. I do hear the Genz DIs being higher quality than the Mark Bass, but who knows?!

[chris_b]

I think your problem was the tent! I've done marquee gigs and they just suck the sound and volume out of your gear. Because you don't get any reflections you can't hear anything and the usual thing is to turn up but that doesn't help. I reckon your next indoor gig will be fine.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1216871' date='May 1 2011, 08:35 PM']Why would you want to lower the input gain and balance it by increasing the output to where it is clipping? If the input is suitably matched to the output from your bass then you should have a nice healthy signal that need not be too thick as to sound overdriven. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to achieve. [/quote]

The way I figure it is if I reduce the input to the tube and turn off the boost I'll get a cleaner tone but by doing this I will also need to up the master to compensate. I'm assuming I might need to push the master quite high to achieve the same volume, but cleaner.
Again, this is all based on the one gig so I might be jumping the gun a bit.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1216917' date='May 1 2011, 09:26 PM']The way I figure it is if I reduce the input to the tube and turn off the boost I'll get a cleaner tone but by doing this I will also need to up the master to compensate. I'm assuming I might need to push the master quite high to achieve the same volume, but cleaner.
Again, this is all based on the one gig so I might be jumping the gun a bit.[/quote]

I've used WoT's amp (not in anger) and it should be easily achievable to get a clean tone with the input gain matched but not overdriven, thereby giving you loads of extra headroom. As you say, it'll be a case of trial and error to achieve what you want. However, from past experience it's better to get a nice health signal into an amp and then to give yourself room to manouver with the output.

[Musicman20]

I'm actually quite shocked how great the prices are on the Streamliners...theyve crammed a lot into the amp:

[url="http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.php?product_id=1117&category_id=2"]http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.ph...p;category_id=2[/url]

That's the cheapest I've seen so far.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1217089' date='May 2 2011, 12:35 AM']I'm actually quite shocked how great the prices are on the Streamliners...theyve crammed a lot into the amp:

[url="http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.php?product_id=1117&category_id=2"]http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.ph...p;category_id=2[/url]

That's the cheapest I've seen so far.[/quote]
This is why I'm contemplating the 900. An extra 300 watts for £100.

Very good price.

[chris_b]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1217288' date='May 2 2011, 10:27 AM']....This is why I'm contemplating the 900. An extra 300 watts for £100....[/quote]
That's like buying another car because it's got a top speed of 180 instead of 140!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1217298' date='May 2 2011, 10:40 AM']That's like buying another car because it's got a top speed of 180 instead of 140![/quote]

Or buying an amp that will suit my needs better. See my last few posts above ;-)


At the moment I'm limited to what cab I can use as it's a 4ohm. If I got a 900 I could start experimenting with other cabs, maybe even use two if I can get them in the car.

Edited May 2, 2011 by dave_bass5

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1217310' date='May 2 2011, 10:52 AM']Or buying an amp that will suit my needs better. See my last few posts above ;-)


At the moment I'm limited to what cab I can use as it's a 4ohm. If I got a 900 I could start experimenting with other cabs, maybe even use two if I can get them in the car.[/quote]

The 6 and 9's are all minimum 4 ohm loads Im confused?

[stingrayPete1977]

I would be interested to compare them schroeder cabs to others before changing the amp. The Genz heads seem to work really well with the 4ohm 2x12s instead of trying to add more cabs to create a 4 ohm load from what I can see. The Neox covers a whole tonal pallet on its own and I cant imagine struggling for volume,headroom or bottom end in any venue other than maybe the NEC or similar!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1217355' date='May 2 2011, 11:25 AM']The 6 and 9's are all minimum 4 ohm loads Im confused?[/quote]
I meant I would still get around 500watts with a 8 ohm cab with the 900. I could then add another cab if and when.
With my 600 I'm stuck at 600 watts with the cab I have. If I want to try a other cab out I won't be able to use the one I have with it so I would only have around 375 watts. That would be a step backwards.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1217355' date='May 2 2011, 11:25 AM']The 6 and 9's are all minimum 4 ohm loads Im confused?[/quote]
I meant I would still get around 575watts with a 8 ohm cab with the 900. I could then add another cab if and when.
With my 600 I'm stuck at 600 watts with the cab I have. If I want to try a other cab out, and i would prefer to get a 8 ohms for the reasons above, I won't be able to use the one I have with it so I would only have around 375 watts. That would be a step backwards.

Edited May 2, 2011 by dave_bass5