Home brewed cab recommendation?

[Veils]

Hey there

I am thinking of putting together some home made cabs and just wondered what peoples experiences were in terms of price and performance? I have just bought me an Ampeg SVT 3 and fancy something more cost effective than paying for Ampeg cabs, probably thinking of the usual combination of 10's and 15's - nothing too clever!

If anyone has any recommendations that would be great =)

J

[mhuk]

The BFM cabs (Bill Fitzmaurice) are one port of call, they offer a huge range of plans. There's also a few ideas in the DIY cabs thread.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=380"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=380[/url]
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6152"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6152[/url]
[url="http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro"]http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro[/url]

I must get on and build mine...

Edited January 31, 2008 by mhuk

[Veils]

Yeah I have just had a read through the sticky'd cab thread as well. I'm keen to get an idea as to how much the cabs are going to cost me to build really more than anything.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='presoulnation' post='131269' date='Jan 31 2008, 08:08 AM']Yeah I have just had a read through the sticky'd cab thread as well. I'm keen to get an idea as to how much the cabs are going to cost me to build really more than anything.[/quote]
I can't say what they'll cost, other UK builders would have to chime in there. I will say that if your aim is to come out on the cheap DIY is not the way to do it, that would be used. For that matter there are many new options that cost less than DIY. Since you can't buy the materials at anywhere near the price that manufacturers can you can't compete with them where cost is concerned. Quality, though ,is a different matter.
DIY has the advantage with the cost of labor, marketing and distribution. Manufactured cabs hold labor costs down by using designs that are simple, fast builds. The tradeoff in so doing is higher weight and lower performance than labor intensive DIY designs. And then there's the cost of all those ads.
Another alternative is custom builders. They don't offer the savings in labor costs, but they also don't have the marketing and distribution overhead that manufacturers do, so you can get a superior product while not spending any more, and sometimes even a bit less compared to 'boutique' brands.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[mhuk]

bluearan.co.uk sell the parts.

Roughly, costs are £20 for 5l paint, £60 for a 10" deltalite driver, £4 for a handle, 50p for a plastic corner, £4 for recessed plate, few quid for speakon connectors and then the other cost is the plywood. Baltic ply is pricey, B&Q plywood is about £20 a sheet. A single 10" driver cab omni 10.5 will be [i]very roughly[/i] about £100, 2x10 Omni about £180, although timber will have an impact on this cost.

Hope that helps

[gilmour]

If you are used to 10" and 15" the BFM omni15 is probably closer to what you want than the omni 10 (although less portable)

You can see my build thread here:
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971[/url]

I haven't finished yet but have paid for all of the parts, I couldn't give an exact price as I ahven't sat down to work it out yet, but it's in the region of £350 there are quite a few hidden costs, the one that kills me is that £30-£40 of that is delivery costs. I do have quite a few bits left over as I tended to buy more than I'd need assuming that I'd muck up at some point (which - touch wood) i haven't. All I'd need to do another cab is the driver, cab corners and a connector.

The other big cost is your time, I'm quite lucky because for the last few weeks I've had a lot of time, and have neraly completed my build inside a week, infact it's only waiting for one tiny part that has stopped it being finished (grrr) once that arrives I've probably got an hour or so of soldering to do.

I second what Bill says I don't think it's the cheapist option that would be to buy second hand (i'll have a peavey BW for sale soon ) but if the cabs are as good and efficent as everyone suggests then it is definatley value for money. It's also really enjoyable.

Rob

EDIT: Just made the link work properley

Edited January 31, 2008 by gilmour

[gilmour]

[quote name='mhuk' post='131336' date='Jan 31 2008, 03:32 PM']A single 10" driver cab omni 10.5 will be [i]very roughly[/i] about £100, 2x10 Omni about £180, although timber will have an impact on this cost.[/quote]

I think £100 is underestimating the cost a little, there are probably £20 - £30 worth of sundries to add to this (Screws, glues, bolts, sanding paper, speaker wire, the tweeters, delivery grrrr) not to mention any tools you may need. Don't mean to nit pick but probably worth taking all this stuff into consideration if you're looking for an accurate cost.

Based on the above I make it £145, (Paint - £20, Driver - £60, Handle (x2) - £8, Plastic corners (x8) - £4, Plate - £4, Connecors - £4, Ply - £20, Sundries - £25)

Still well worth it IMHO

Edited January 31, 2008 by gilmour

[DirkThrust]

The above pricing seems to be based on using the Eminence Deltalite drivers which are the lightweight and therefore expensive option. I used common-or-garden Beta 10s which only cost me £35 each from Blue Aran.

I agree though that the sundries and delivery charges are the killer. A sheet of speaker grill from CPC cost me £24 inc delivery but I got an Omni10 and two Omni10.5s out of it.

I seemed to be forever going to B&Q to get something else that I had forgotten. The sheer number of different screws, glue, sealant, paint rollers, cable ties, wood filler, sand paper, rubber feet , corners, connectors & plate is astonishing and soon adds up to a considerable sum if you're not geared up to do this kind of DIY. The experienced builders would probably know exactly what to order and would get it in a job lot from somewhere like Screwfix, which would be considerably cheaper. When you're having to buy everything bit by bit as you need it then it is very expensive.

Having said that I reckon I built my O10.5s for about £100 each and considering that any good quality 1x10 or 1x12 is going to be £300+ and probably considerably inferior in performance, the BFMs still work out as a real bargain

Presoulnation, if you decide to go the BFM route then have a look on FinnBass. THere are shedloads of build threads on there and parts lists and lists of suppliers.

Edited February 1, 2008 by PaulMartin

[Veils]

Thanks for all the info guys it's mega helpful

As for pricing, I don't want to cut corners to make it cheaper and compromise on quality, but I am aware of the fact that a home brewed cab will be much better value for money than buying the usual cabs.

Thanks again everyone!!

[alexclaber]

I'm just starting a DIY cab myself. Eminence Kappalite 3015LF woofer and Eighteen Sound 6ND410 midrange. I'll be biamping as I have a 2 channel power amp, but with a simple passive line level crossover, 1st order on woofer, 2nd order on midrange, at 750Hz. You could easily achieve a similar result with a passive speaker level crossover with a suitably sized inductor in series with the woofer, and capacitor in series and inductor in parallel with the midrange, plus an L-pad on the midrange - note that the real impedance at 750Hz according to the manufacturer's plots should be used in the crossover component calculation, not the nominal 8 ohm impedance of each component.

The parts for me will cost about £250, for a non-biamped design you'd be looking at around £300. Let me know if you want further info, I'll be drawing up the plans in the next week or so before I start cutting up wood.

I like a lot of Bill's designs but none of them do quite what I want - the joy of DIY is you can design exactly for your needs, right down to the dimensions of your car boot! For bass the Omni 15TB is the BFM cab I'd build - my cab will be smaller and less loud but with similar bottom capability (and deeper sounding without EQ) and cleaner and flatter in the midrange.

Alex

[barneythedog]

Alex, now that sounds interesting - I'm looking into a 15" cab using the Eminence Basslite at the moment, although I'll be sticking to a passive crossover if I put in another driver.

My thinking has been pretty similar to yours I think - I like the idea of BFM's, but have been concerned over the Omni 10.5's low end response, and much as I would love an Omni 15TB, it rather defeats the "compact and lightweight" idea I'm trying to achieve.

Let me know how you get on, and if you have any useful advice I'm keen to learn

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='barneythedog' post='133088' date='Feb 3 2008, 10:54 AM']My thinking has been pretty similar to yours I think - I like the idea of BFM's, but have been concerned over the Omni 10.5's low end response,[/quote]
It's a 1x10. No 1x10 will knock down walls. But as far as that goes the O10.5 has no worse low end response than most 1x10s, and better midrange than any commercial 1x10 that I'm aware of.
[quote]and much as I would love an Omni 15TB, it rather defeats the "compact and lightweight" idea I'm trying to achieve.[/quote]Hoffman's Iron Law: small, loud, low. Pick any two, you can't have all three. Sticking a 15 into too small a box will only result in loud, not low.

[barneythedog]

I know Bill, I did as I was told and googled it - I may still be ordering up the Omni 10.5 plans tho to have a play with.

And all this research is certainly proving educational. I've even managed to work out how to use WinISD now.

[gilmour]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='133178' date='Feb 3 2008, 06:36 PM']Hoffman's Iron Law: small, loud, low. Pick any two, you can't have all three. Sticking a 15 into too small a box will only result in loud, not low.[/quote]

The more I read up on DIY cabs the more I understand about Hoffman's Iron Law, it's pretty straightforward but still everyone is obssesed with breaking the laws of physics,

perhaps the answer is to use some sort of quantum technology in cab designs, bending the space time continum would allow for more low end resonse in a smaller space !!

[bremen]

[quote name='gilmour' post='133658' date='Feb 4 2008, 04:01 PM']perhaps the answer is to use some sort of quantum technology in cab designs, bending the space time continum would allow for more low end resonse in a smaller space !! [/quote]

Cunning, but isn't there a risk that the bass will come out in another universe, thereby ruining your gig *and* the vicarage tea party in said alternative universe?

[gilmour]

[quote name='bremen' post='133663' date='Feb 4 2008, 04:07 PM']Cunning, but isn't there a risk that the bass will come out in another universe, thereby ruining your gig *and* the vicarage tea party in said alternative universe?[/quote]

hehehe

that is a worry, I'll have to do a little more thinking on this...

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='133178' date='Feb 3 2008, 06:36 PM']Hoffman's Iron Law: small, loud, low. Pick any two, you can't have all three. Sticking a 15 into too small a box will only result in loud, not low.[/quote]

The cab I'm building will have ~110 litres net internal volume which combined with a 46Hz tuning frequency gives a good balance of extension and sensitivity. The Omni 15TB uses much larger internal volume and a 50Hz tuning frequency to get more loudness, not lowness, and I don't need that extra loudness.

Alex

[bremen]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='135787' date='Feb 7 2008, 02:40 PM']The cab I'm building will have ~110 litres net internal volume which combined with a 46Hz tuning frequency gives a good balance of extension and sensitivity. The Omni 15TB uses much larger internal volume and a 50Hz tuning frequency to get more loudness, not lowness, and I don't need that extra loudness.

Alex[/quote]

I use a Kappalite 15LF in 110 litres and it's good. I tuned it down to 36Hz though, as I use a 5 string.

I also have the same driver in a 130 litre box, not much difference, if any. For mid/high I use an Alpha 8MR and bi-amp, crossed over at about 600Hz. The system is *almost* loud, deep and small, though my drummer complains that it doesn't qualify as 'small'.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='bremen' post='135807' date='Feb 7 2008, 03:17 PM']I use a Kappalite 15LF in 110 litres and it's good. I tuned it down to 36Hz though, as I use a 5 string.[/quote]

I'm intending to use this with a 5 string too - have spent quite a lot of time messing with WinISD Pro plots and also taking advantage of the experience of other bassists with DIY 3015LF cabs and although the higher tuning frequency raises F10 it lowers F3 and gives equal F6. The 3015LF has so much Xmax that overexcursion below the tuning frequency is unlikely and the extra sensitivity and power handling in the critical 50-100Hz area should be useful. If you're bored you might like to try shorter ports and see if your experience match the theory and the reports I've heard.

[quote name='bremen' post='135807' date='Feb 7 2008, 03:17 PM']I also have the same driver in a 130 litre box, not much difference, if any. For mid/high I use an Alpha 8MR and bi-amp, crossed over at about 600Hz. The system is *almost* loud, deep and small, though my drummer complains that it doesn't qualify as 'small'.[/quote]

Cool. Have you tried any other midrange speakers? I worked up a few theoretical designs with the 8MR but got driven mad by the peaky response - then again it saves having to build a sub cab and is far cheaper than the 6ND410.

How do you find your cab stacks up against the usual 4x10" fare?

Alex

[bremen]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='135834' date='Feb 7 2008, 04:06 PM']The 3015LF has so much Xmax that overexcursion below the tuning frequency is unlikely and the extra sensitivity and power handling in the critical 50-100Hz area should be useful.

If you're bored you might like to try shorter ports and see if your experience match the theory and the reports I've heard.[/quote]

It's all sealed up now, but I will experiment next time.

[quote]Cool. Have you tried any other midrange speakers? I worked up a few theoretical designs with the 8MR but got driven mad by the peaky response - then again it saves having to build a sub cab and is far cheaper than the 6ND410.

How do you find your cab stacks up against the usual 4x10" fare?

Alex[/quote]

The only cab I've been able to compare directly is a Trace 4x10; mine is much brighter and deeper and about a quarter the weight! Though I do appreciate that the Trace's virtue is that it although it doesn't sound particularly nice it does cut through a terrible stage sound.