bassicinstinct Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='1154080' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:59 PM']Only if you're a tribute to Sweet.[/quote] Or The Jam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Playing in an originals band is a great creative outlet and it's good to support original music. On the otherhand is it such a bad thing to simply entertain people on a Friday/Saturday night by playing covers? Some original bands I've met/watched seem to think that the ability to string C, F, G and Am together whilst rhyming moon with June renders them musically superior to anyone who has ever dared cover another band's song. There are plenty of lazy, crap covers bands around, but equally there are plenty of hopeless originals bands with hugely inflated egos. I'm sure that the reason most original music remains undiscovered is not because fat, middle-aged blokes like me spend their weekends playing Mustang Sally et al for a bit of beer money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1154074' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:57 PM']Its the Macdonaldsisation of music. Tribute bands are small franchises of the bands they copy. Loads of people like them but they are ultimately lacking in nutrition and probably rot your teeth.[/quote] Really?! I've found that we have a whole new younger generation of fans coming along to see us because we play great anthemic songs they can get into, to a high standard, and with a full production show to go with it - adding excitement, a feeling of being 'part of something' & value for money. Many of these kids have never/are never likely to see older legenday bands like KISS & for them this is a chance for them to discover new 'old' music which then leads onto other classic rock acts and a healthy interest in newer rock bands, keeping the 'live rock' scene alive for new bands... Really chaps, this argument has been done to death & the level of resentment and bitterness is misplaced. There is a HUGE amount of talent in many tribute bands and indeed there is a lot to be said for the musical discipline required to do it to a high standard. Many/most successful tribute musicians have paid their dues in original bands themselves (& still do on the side) so find it's curious that they are met with such bitterness for enjoying their craft and providing enjoyment to others by actually leaving their bedrooms and playing live for people... Is your originals band not popular enough? Write some good songs, put some energy into your performance, organise your OWN gigs, promote them well, use social networking media to it's max, organise a street team & get good product together while making a name for yourselves. You could even maybe do that instead of spending time moaning/hating on online forums! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='cetera' post='1154137' date='Mar 8 2011, 05:32 PM']Really?! I've found that we have a whole new younger generation of fans coming along to see us because we play great anthemic songs they can get into, to a high standard, and with a full production show to go with it - adding excitement, a feeling of being 'part of something' & value for money. Many of these kids have never/are never likely to see older legenday bands like KISS & for them this is a chance for them to discover new 'old' music which then leads onto other classic rock acts and a healthy interest in newer rock bands, keeping the 'live rock' scene alive for new bands... Really chaps, this argument has been done to death & the level of resentment and bitterness is misplaced. There is a HUGE amount of talent in many tribute bands and indeed there is a lot to be said for the musical discipline required to do it to a high standard. Many/most successful tribute musicians have paid their dues in original bands themselves (& still do on the side) so find it's curious that they are met with such bitterness for enjoying their craft and providing enjoyment to others by actually leaving their bedrooms and playing live for people... Is your originals band not popular enough? Write some good songs, put some energy into your performance, organise your OWN gigs, promote them well, use social networking media to it's max, organise a street team & get good product together while making a name for yourselves. You could even maybe do that instead of spending time moaning/hating on online forums! [/quote] Couldn't have put it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154030' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:40 PM']Ok, so was Jimmy Hendrix giving the audience what they wanted? Frank Zappa? Pink Floyd? Maybe, once they'd built a fanbase and released a few records, but certainly not in the first instance.[/quote] Hendrix did stuff like play with his teeth and Zappa did stuff like shoot cream out of a stuffed giraffe.......That is giving the audience what they want by being entertaining. That's not counting the fact that Hendrix played tunes like 'Wild Thing' and Zappa played 'Louis Louis'. If your original music is good,you can and will get gigs with it,but you have to push it,be prepared to travel outside of your locale and consistently do a good job. This is also applicable to cover and tribute bands. If you are good at what you do,you'll get plenty of gigs,if you suck you won't. Besides,most people would rather hear Oasis songs than original songs that sound like Oasis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='bassicinstinct' post='1153983' date='Mar 8 2011, 03:59 PM']By the way, that was me you were quoting in your earlier post, right? [/quote] Ah do declare it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1154077' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:58 PM']You ever tried going to Liverpool? Be realistic, the Wirral is mostly residential with no discernible musical backbone, where as 5 minutes across the water from you there's a wealth of live original music every night, just go to The Shipping Forecast, The Zanzibar, The Picket, The Masque, Bumper, The Magnet, The Static Gallery, Envi any night of the week and those really are just for starters. Tribute and cover bands might provide some brief flash in the pan entertainment in a lot of the live music venues on the Wirral, but they certainly don't kill off the desire for original live music (that's complete rubbish), and besides which there is near enough zero demand for it on the Wirral anyway.[/quote] No discernible musical backbone....ever heard of Half Man Half Biscuit? Elvis Costello? OMD? The Coral? Never mind... And zero desire? Are you sure? Regarding Liverpool, there are a hell of a lot of bands chasing a relatively small number of gigs. Many of the gigs are also pay to play. [quote].....legenday (sick) bands like KISS[/quote] ...you've got to be taking the piss, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Doddy' post='1154191' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:06 PM']Hendrix played tunes like 'Wild Thing'[/quote] Yeah. And Day Tripper. And Sunshine of Your Love. And The Star Spangled Banner. And all those chart hits he played when he was with Curtis Wossname. [i]And[/i] he played boring 12-bar blues as well Think of all the really [i]original [/i]bands he held back by playing those covers like the big pant-wetting cry-baby he [s]used [/s]was. Edited March 8, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote]Zappa played 'Louis Louis'.[/quote] He was taking the piss when he did that...I suggest you read his autobiography. It gives a great insight into how the music industry was gradually taken over by the hippies and accountants. And Hendrix's version of Wild Thing was pretty radical compared to the Trogg's original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153751' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:33 PM']If there are no (or very few) outlets left for original live music, then how are new bands going to develop in the first play? How will anyone ever know if they are any good or not? So don't give me all the crap excuses about entertaining the public.[/quote] There seems to be an attitude that originals bands seem to think they are owed a chance by pubs, venues and the public ear, the current market of venues on offer is what it is, you play music firstly because you love to, and if you can create an avenue within the world to get that in front of people then congratulations, but its not for others to provide the platform at financial loss Go convince the venue you can pull a crowd worthy of an evening and promote yourself Playing in a covers band is an easy, no time consuming route to me being able to enjoy gigging, and yes entertain a crowd, like it or not we and others do, and more often than not get paid for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1154196' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:09 PM']Ah do declare it was.[/quote] I thought I recognised the pithy cynicism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154200' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:12 PM']No discernible musical backbone....ever heard of Half Man Half Biscuit? Elvis Costello? OMD? The Coral? Never mind... And zero desire? Are you sure? Regarding Liverpool, there are a hell of a lot of bands chasing a relatively small number of gigs. Many of the gigs are also pay to play.[/quote] But all the bands that do well,do so by touting themselves out of their niche area. If you are prepared to travel there are literally hundreds of places to play original music. [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154207' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:18 PM']He was taking the piss when he did that...I suggest you read his autobiography. It gives a great insight into how the music industry was gradually taken over by the hippies and accountants. And Hendrix's version of Wild Thing was pretty radical compared to the Trogg's original.[/quote] I've read Zappa's autobiography thanks. He used to regularly play cover songs though all through his career. Hendrix doing wild thing wasn't really all that radical-it had a more crazy solo,that's about it. Oh,and the first Beatles album was mostly old rock and roll songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154207' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:18 PM']He was taking the piss when he did that...I suggest you read his autobiography. It gives a great insight into how the music industry was gradually taken over by the hippies and accountants. And Hendrix's version of Wild Thing was pretty radical compared to the Trogg's original.[/quote] [b]Zappa[/b] taking the piss? God forbid!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154200' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:12 PM']No discernible musical backbone....ever heard of Half Man Half Biscuit? Elvis Costello? OMD? The Coral? Never mind...[/quote] None of the people you've just mentioned made a big name for themselves by playing pubs and clubs on the Wirral, they just happened to be from the area. Your argument seems to lack credibility. The only thing that's changed since the 'golden years' of live music if it indeed existed (I'm skeptical) on the Wirral is the geographical locality, which has shifted to literally 5 minutes from where you live. [quote]And zero desire? Are you sure? Regarding Liverpool, there are a hell of a lot of bands chasing a relatively small number of gigs. Many of the gigs are also pay to play.[/quote] Yes. If people want to see original bands play round here then go to Liverpool, it really couldn't be easier. It's obviously something you don't have much experience with because there's plenty of gigs to be had on a regular, weekly basis. Some gigs might have a pay to play scheme but there are plenty that don't, so again, I'll ask... have you ever tried Liverpool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote]I've read Zappa's autobiography thanks. He used to regularly play cover songs though all through his career.[/quote] Well he did a few, but it was a pretty small number compared to his own vast output. And he certainly didn't do them 'tribute band' style. He used Louie Louie throughout his career as motif to represent bad cover band music - hardly the best example for you to choose really. [quote]None of the people you've just mentioned made a big name for themselves by playing pubs and clubs on the Wirral, they just happened to be from the area.[/quote] That may be true to some extent (I think the Biscuits did quite a few local gigs in the early days), but I was really arguing against your suggestion that Wirral has zero musical backbone. [quote]Your argument seems to lack credibility. The only thing that's changed since the 'golden years' of live music if it indeed existed (I'm skeptical) on the Wirral is the geographical locality, which has shifted to literally 5 minutes from where you live.[/quote] I didn't claim there was a 'golden age' of local live music on Wirral, only that there used to be more and now there is less (in terms of original stuff). Liverpool has always had a fairly healthy musical scene...nothing has really 'shifted' as you put it. That's a fairly bizzare thing to say. [quote]Yes. If people want to see original bands play round here then go to Liverpool, it really couldn't be easier. It's obviously something you don't have much experience with because there's plenty of gigs to be had on a regular, weekly basis. Some gigs might have a pay to play scheme but there are plenty that don't, so again, I'll ask... have you ever tried Liverpool?[/quote] Yes I have. We have had a couple of gigs in Liverpool and couple that fell through. The opportunities seems fairly sporadic to me, unless you are playing metal or indie rock. But I obviously don't know as much about it as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154273' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:59 PM']That may be true to some extent (I think the Biscuits did quite a few local gigs in the early days), but I was really arguing against your suggestion that Wirral has zero musical backbone.[/quote] In terms of venues it is pretty much true. I wasn't referring to the artists that have come from the area. You said it yourself, most places are only interested in cover band material. [quote]I didn't claim there was a 'golden age' of local live music on Wirral, only that there used to be more and now there is less (in terms of original stuff). Liverpool has always had a fairly healthy musical scene...nothing has really 'shifted' as you put it. That's a fairly bizzare thing to say. Yes I have. We have had a couple of gigs in Liverpool and couple that fell through. The opportunities seems fairly sporadic to me, unless you are playing metal or indie rock. But I obviously don't know as much about it as you.[/quote] With the greatest of respect, you're either not looking or asking hard enough, or you've not been speaking to the right people. Getting a gig in Liverpool couldn't be easier. I've seen some excellent bands play round town and I've seen some equally terrible bands play, so unless you're really, really out there with what you're playing music wise then I'd recommend maybe exploring some more opportunities. You know as well as anyone that lives on the peninsula that the Wirral is not the shining beacon of live music and there's nothing to be gained from playing original material because there is simply no demand for such, with the possible exception of Pacific Rd that regularly host all sorts of stuff. If people want to see live music then they go to Liverpool, it's really simple. The Wirral isn't and never will be the right area to host live original music unless something drastically changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154273' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:59 PM']Well he did a few, but it was a pretty small number compared to his own vast output. And he certainly didn't do them 'tribute band' style. He used Louie Louie throughout his career as motif to represent bad cover band music - hardly the best example for you to choose really.[/quote] I'm sure that in the early days when he played it,the audience knew that he was playing it on an ironic fashion. The point I was making was that The Mothers used to put on a show and,god forbid,entertain the public.As good as the music became,if they hadn't have entertained people their chances of success would have been slimmer. The same with Hendrix-it wasn't until he started playing with his teeth and burning his guitar that people really started to take notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1154320' date='Mar 8 2011, 07:22 PM']If people want to see live music then they go to Liverpool, it's really simple. The Wirral isn't and never will be the right area to host live original music unless something drastically changes.[/quote] Plus,Manchester is only half an hour away where even more gigs await. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 You either wrote the music you play or you didn't. It's as simple as that. I have played in numerous originals and covers bands and am now rehearsing for a Bowie tribute. I didn't write any of the songs, so its all the same to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1154206' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:17 PM']Yeah. And Day Tripper. And Sunshine of Your Love. And The Star Spangled Banner. And all those chart hits he played when he was with Curtis Wossname. [i]And[/i] he played boring 12-bar blues as well Think of all the really [i]original [/i]bands he held back by playing those covers like the big pant-wetting cry-baby he [s]used [/s]was.[/quote] And "All Along The Watchtower", and "Johhny B Goode", and "Hey Joe", and ..... I don't recall Hendrix and the others moaning about all the covers bands doing Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly covers etc, They just got out there and did it. For every hendrix there must have been at least 100 originals bands who sank without trace. Then as now, if the band has got something to offer and work hard at it then, if the audiences like it, and its the right day of the week and you happen to be in the right place at the right time, etc etc, then it will happen for them. If not it won't, but it's no good them bleating on about how they 'could have been a contender'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) Jelly, you seem to be an embittered soul. If our band offered you an opening slot, would you lower yourself to take it? What kind of band/music do you play that you can't get gigs and blame it on tribute bands? Using our band as a model (and I'm not using this as publicity), we have ten members, seven of which are professional musicians. We have been gigging all over the UK for 14 years, and have played many crap venues for little money. The band wasn't formed as a money-making venture, but as something whereby we could play the music we really liked. Our singer sounds nothing like Donald Fagen. We enjoy what we do, and it comes over in the live shows. It has been a hard slog to attain our reputation, not to mention many hours spent learning the songs. I have seen a few tribute bands - especially a Chilli Peppers tribute from Birmingham, who were amazing musicians - and Limehouse Lizzy. I loved them. They played the songs immaculately, and with the utmost musicianship. It was very[i] entertaining[/i]. And Bilbo, as much as you hate tributes, there's no denying you play jazz and pop covers, and are as guilty as the rest of us. Please stop trying to deny this. Sorry, mate, but it's becoming tedious. Edited March 8, 2011 by Pete Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I don't know. I don't blame Bilbao's position..he isn't trying to set himself apart as he takes the covers gigs himself. I just think he has been round the block a few times, and is a bit tired and/or cynical about a lot of things musical...as quite a few of us may also be. He calls it as he sees it but is pragmatic enough to know that a gig is a gig is a gig. I think he is quite discerning and would call a decent band a decent band regardless of what music they played....just as he would call a poor band the same if that is what he thought. I don't take much offence or notice at this line.... I think it is reasonable. He likes what he likes and calls it as such. Not much else to worry about really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='BigAlonBass' post='1153142' date='Mar 7 2011, 10:41 PM']......and there's the crux of the whole argument, right there. If you play in front of an audience, you have to play what THEY want to hear, or you don't work. I'd rather play in front of an audience than sit noodling in my bedroom for the rest of my life. If I have to slightly compromise my ideals in order to do so, so be it. A lesson that some 'musicians' could do with learning. .....or be a little more understanding of those who are willing to fulfill that need. [/quote] Possibly I am fortunate in that being part of the contemporary Punk/Oi! scene,I get to play to audiences who want to hear the original material we're playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1154232' date='Mar 8 2011, 06:34 PM']Hendrix doing wild thing wasn't really all that radical-it had a more crazy solo,that's about it.[/quote] Crazier than Reg Presley's kazoo solo? You set a high bar, Doddy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='cetera' post='1153489' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:21 AM']So you dislike them because they earnt [b]more[/b] than you while [b]entertaining[/b] an audience? Wow... god forbid.... [/quote] Dislike,no.Resented a bit,if I'm honest,yes.I do not have a problem with those in Tribute bands.If it gives the opportunity to play for the sheer joy of playing then do it.If it pays the mortgage,even better.However,I just don't get it.I have spent the last 35 years of my life constantly searching and finding music that I haven't heard before, and I just don't get why others would rather go see a recreation of something that has previously existed.Also please be aware I'm referring to tribute bands,not covers bands.Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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