skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The logical solution to all 'tribute band stole my gig' woes here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=126071"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=126071[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Not embittered exactly Pete, I just find the idea of an endlessly diminishing cycle of tribute bands stretching into the future slightly depressing. The British Pink Floyd show recently played at the Liverpool Echo arena – a great band’s music is being turned into a kind of musical theatre. It’s Elvis doing vegas, it’s the Coen brothers remaking True Grit, it’s just …..a bit crap somehow. We obviously have very different points of view on this. I don't exclusively blame tribute bands for the state of the live music scene, but I don't believe that they contribute anything terribly positive either, quite the contrary in fact. Ok, clearly some people find them entertaining. I’ve seen a couple myself in the past, but didn’t find it very rewarding tbh. I can appreciate good musicianship, but as an end in itself I just don’t see the point. For me, a great gig is not necessarily about good musicianship, or playing a song immaculately, it’s that certain something that gives you that little buzz when you go home. I don’t doubt your commitment to what you do and I’m sure that after 14 years you are very good at it. Fair enough. I’m clearly in a minority with regards to this, at least on here, so I’m not going to bang on again more. Have a good gig at the Pacific, it’s a decent venue, which sadly doesn’t support local artists very much. Be sure to check out KGB music - he’s a local guitar builder whose shop is in the same building as the theatre - I have one of his early handmade basses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154630' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:05 PM']Not embittered exactly Pete, I just find the idea of an endlessly diminishing cycle of tribute bands stretching into the future slightly depressing. The British Pink Floyd show recently played at the Liverpool Echo arena – a great band’s music is being turned into a kind of musical theatre. It’s Elvis doing vegas, it’s the Coen brothers remaking True Grit, it’s just …..a bit crap somehow. We obviously have very different points of view on this. I don't exclusively blame tribute bands for the state of the live music scene, but I don't believe that they contribute anything terribly positive either, quite the contrary in fact. Ok, clearly some people find them entertaining. I’ve seen a couple myself in the past, but didn’t find it very rewarding tbh. I can appreciate good musicianship, but as an end in itself I just don’t see the point. For me, a great gig is not necessarily about good musicianship, or playing a song immaculately, it’s that certain something that gives you that little buzz when you go home. I don’t doubt your commitment to what you do and I’m sure that after 14 years you are very good at it. Fair enough. I’m clearly in a minority with regards to this, at least on here, so I’m not going to bang on again more. Have a good gig at the Pacific, it’s a decent venue, which sadly doesn’t support local artists very much. Be sure to check out KGB music - he’s a local guitar builder whose shop is in the same building as the theatre - I have one of his early handmade basses![/quote] Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Cetera']legendary bands like KISS...[/quote] [quote name='JellyKnees']...you've got to be taking the piss, surely?[/quote] Err...no... Over 100 million album sales, record breaking concerts and tours, fantastic stage shows, an incredibly successful 38 year career and being a major influence on just about every well known rock & heavy rock band of the 80's/90's etc etc all makes them legendary. Surely the chip on your shoulder & personal dislike of them doesn't make you blind to the facts?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154630' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:05 PM']The British Pink Floyd show recently played at the Liverpool Echo arena – a great band’s music is being turned into a kind of musical theatre. It’s Elvis doing vegas, it’s the Coen brothers remaking True Grit, it’s just …..a bit crap somehow.[/quote] How is playing at the Echo turning it into 'musical theatre'? It's a band,albeit a tribute show,playing in a large arena to a lot of people. I think it's a bit mad that a tribute show is that big,especially the Pink Floyd ones,but it isn't anything like musical theatre. Incidentally,it's interesting that you use the term 'musical theatre' as a derogatory term. Interesting definitions of crap too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I hear Beavis and Butthead are making a comeback... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8JUzyfGmio"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8JUzyfGmio[/url] Spurious lists of facts not withstanding, they still suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I understand the concept of tribute bands to artists that are long gone,but tribute bands to acts that are still active? I just don't get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154702' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:48 PM']Spurious lists of facts not withstanding, they still suck.[/quote] Nowt spurious there and I'd barely started... but I see you've moved onto schoolyard stuff now eh? Seems this thread has degenerated into the usual mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1154337' date='Mar 8 2011, 07:30 PM']Plus,Manchester is only half an hour away where even more gigs await.[/quote] Precisely! I never got the attitude that if you're stuck in an area with not much going on that it somehow becomes impossible to get a gig. It's not, it's just a case of a.) being able to travel a small distance with your gear b.) being outgoing and asking for the gigs in the first place and c.) turning up, being professional, play a set to the best of your abilities and maybe you'll find that doors start to open to you other places as well. Once you've done a few gigs things tend to snowball, but you'll never get anywhere if you approach the whole thing with a negative outlook on it, it's all about being outgoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1154746' date='Mar 8 2011, 11:25 PM']Precisely! I never got the attitude that if you're stuck in an area with not much going on that it somehow becomes impossible to get a gig. It's not, it's just a case of a.) being able to travel a small distance with your gear b.) being outgoing and asking for the gigs in the first place and c.) turning up, being professional, play a set to the best of your abilities and maybe you'll find that doors start to open to you other places as well. Once you've done a few gigs things tend to snowball, but you'll never get anywhere if you approach the whole thing with a negative outlook on it, it's all about being outgoing.[/quote] That's it isn't it. Gigs for original bands(or any band) are out there,but they won't come to you and they aren't on your doorstep. As an example,a few years back,I started a cover band with a guitarist/singer,and we filled the diary for nearly a year in under a week. It was simply a matter of calling venues that we had either played previously in other bands or that we found on the 'net. Ironically,the most trouble we had was booking gigs locally. Every gig we did,except for maybe 4 or 5 in 2 years involved travelling- our first gig was 300 miles away! My last serious original band did some gigs locally and got a good response,so we decided to branch out of the area.....and went to America! We got a great reception,and kept getting gig offers(and some festivals),and eventually went out for a second time quite soon after. That's an extreme example-we could have done the same in Manchester or Birmingham,but we were cocky. The gigs for any band are out there if you look for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154630' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:05 PM']...... I don't exclusively blame tribute bands for the state of the live music scene, but I don't believe that they contribute anything terribly positive either, quite the contrary in fact.[/quote] IMHO tribute / good cover bands can be an [u]antidote[/u] to the current music scene - which is far too heavily influenced by bands jumping on the somewhat jaded 'indie' bandwagon, in which if you aren't supported or 'created' by a Simon Cowell influenced machine you simply ain't going to make it unless you sell out to them. There are a few exceptions who make it - but they are few and far between. Perhaps I've been to far to many mediocre originals gigs? I dep in an originals band - who do some covers, and I dep in a covers band - I like both of them Give me classic rock 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Let's get this straight. Playing in a tribute band takes a certain level of skill and attention to detail and I am sure it stretches some people at least a little sometimes. Its great that the audience can have a great evening being entertained in a nostalgic kind of way, seeing a live band doing stuff by a band they liked when they were younger or never got to see but who no longer tour. Its great that the landlords make their money and their pubs stay open. Its great that the musicians get to work and its great that they get lots of money for their trouble (actually, some of them barely break even but that's another story). Its wonderful that all these people are happy, contented and set up for life, just like the girl someone mentioned who bought her house on the proceeds of singing to backing tapes. Good luck to her. I (and many others, musos and potential audiences alike) just think its a shame that this is what punters settle for. Just like chefs who hate Macdonalds or ready meals, theatre directors who hate Lloyd Webber or the artists who hated Athena. Some people think the public are being shortchanged and wish to draw attention to that belief. I also know that nobody cares in the slightest what I think. I don't expect anyone to stop doing it. I don't expect anyone to throw themselves on their sword. I don't expect venues to stop booking profit making bands in favour of loss making originals bands. I don't expect every original to be the most astonishing piece of music ever. I don't expect everyone to throw the towel in and start jazz bands. I don't claim my favourite music is better than anyone else's (except in jest and in advocating for its qualities). I don't think ill of anyone who plays in a covers band or a tribute band. I play 99% covers (inc standards) at every gig I do and don't feel the need to wear sackcloth the day after, just a little frustrated and bored by the repetition. I just think that its a shame that tv is mostly repeats, films are mostly remakes and bands are mostly playing other people' stuff. In my experience, people nearly always like the originals the best, whether its books, film, art or music. Some people are happy to watch repeats, I think its better to watch new stuff. So shoot me.... And, if people are bored with these arguments (and the one about reading) why do these threads always go on for days and days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Bilbo' post='1154958' date='Mar 9 2011, 09:27 AM']I also know that nobody cares in the slightest what I think.[/quote] On the contrary, Bilbo. As a respected contributor to this forum, your views command a respect of which you are likely unaware. You are one of our deeper thinkers and - because of this - I'd rather cross swords with you than with most. EOM. [b][center]......[/center][/b] As for trib bands, well, people, I just see some musicians successfully giving punters what they want. Problem is, some of our number get silly about it and start slagging off Trib Bands, audiences, pub landlords, society et al. I firmly believe it ill behoves us to heap opprobium on any group within our community of musicians - whether characterised by genre, age, gender, location or function. When I see it, I'll challenge it. My dislike is redoubled when it is clear that a poster is simply using someone else's success to account for their own frustrated lack of progress. This is a very British thing and a mean-spirited tradition I would like to see jettisoned. The solution is exemplified by Lowendbee's Originals Bands In Pubs thread. He's not bitching and moaning. He's getting out there and doing something about it. Edited March 9, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1155306' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:42 PM']You are one of our deeper thinkers[/quote] Boy, are you guys in trouble...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1155306' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:42 PM']My dislike is redoubled when it is clear that a poster is simply using someone else's success to account for their own frustrated lack of progress.[/quote] This. Tribute band aren't my preferred thing,and I think some are waaaay over the top,but my main argument is with the fact that tribute bands aren't responsible for certain original bands not getting gigs.If that was the case,I'd probably be sitting moaning that all these rock bands are responsible for there not being enough jazz gigs...but I'm not,because it's not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1155306' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:42 PM']My dislike is redoubled when it is clear that a poster is simply using someone else's success to account for their own frustrated lack of progress. This is a very British thing and a mean-spirited tradition I would like to see jettisoned. The solution is exemplified by Lowendbee's Originals Bands In Pubs thread. He's not bitching and moaning. He's getting out there and doing something about it.[/quote] Exactly! Don't be a hater.... be a motivator! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1155306' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:42 PM']On the contrary, Bilbo. As a respected contributor to this forum, your views command a respect of which you are likely unaware. You are one of our deeper thinkers and - because of this - I'd rather cross swords with you than with most. EOM. [b][center]......[/center][/b] As for trib bands, well, people, I just see some musicians successfully giving punters what they want. Problem is, some of our number get silly about it and start slagging off Trib Bands, audiences, pub landlords, society et al. I firmly believe it ill behoves us to heap opprobium on any group within our community of musicians - whether characterised by genre, age, gender, location or function. When I see it, I'll challenge it. My dislike is redoubled when it is clear that a poster is simply using someone else's success to account for their own frustrated lack of progress. This is a very British thing and a mean-spirited tradition I would like to see jettisoned. The solution is exemplified by Lowendbee's Originals Bands In Pubs thread. He's not bitching and moaning. He's getting out there and doing something about it.[/quote] Hear hear!! Ultimately, and I really DO think it is as simple as this: [size=5][b]QUALITY[/b] will succeed and survive.[/size] If you are a member of a crap "originals" band, you are unlikely to sustain a following or get much work. [b]Precisely[/b] the same thing applies if you playing in a crap tribute band. "Crap" being, of course, an entirely subjective term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) Personally, I like to see someone play with originality..so they can take a part and hopefully enhance it or do something with a song, rather than cop note for note. (When you set up a song, you should be looking to get at the thing that makes it work, rather than get your part down and wonder why the version isn't great/working as the drummer/gtr etc etc cannot do the same with theirs) By that stretch, I am not too fussed about cover bands who try and play the original as is...so it figures that I am not that great on tribute bands who try and do the same thing. It is kind of like..has that player got something to say or is he is just spewing out someone elses line as close as he can technically get..with no soul or thought there at all, then I can give that take a miss. Edited March 9, 2011 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1154958' date='Mar 9 2011, 09:27 AM']I just think that its a shame that tv is mostly repeats, films are mostly remakes and bands are mostly playing other people' stuff. In my experience, people nearly always like the originals the best, whether its books, film, art or music. Some people are happy to watch repeats, I think its better to watch new stuff. So shoot me....[/quote] That's a good summation of how I feel about it too. Personally I don't pay attention to what cover bands are doing, what audiences they're playing to or what money they're making because it doesn't affect me at all. Our audience isn't going to go see them and their audience isn't going to come and see us, they're two completely different kinds of entertainment. There's an assumption on this forum that original bands are jealous of the success of cover bands but if we wanted to make money we wouldn't be doing what we're doing, we'd be doing what you're doing. Certainly my band is more than happy to fund its own activities without expecting a return. Nobody has ever suggested we should change what we do because we're not making any money, and if they did they would get some funny looks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1155438' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:28 PM']By that stretch, I am not too fussed about cover bands who try and play the original as is...so it figures that I am not that great on tribute bands who try and do the same thing. It is kind of like..has that player got something to say or is he is just spewing out someone elses line as close as he can technically get..with no soul or thought there at all, then I can give that take a miss.[/quote] When playing with my current (tribute) band, I play with as much soul and feeling as I did when playing in an originals band. Just because I didn't write the bassline, doesn't mean I can't play it with feeling. I agree with Bassicinstinct - it's the quality that matters. To use Bilbo's analogy, I'd rather watch many Alan Partridge repeats than watch one new episode of Snog, Marry Avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1155438' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:28 PM']Personally, I like to see someone play with originality..so they can take a part and hopefully enhance it or do something with a song, rather than cop note for note. (When you set up a song, you should be looking to get at the thing that makes it work, rather than get your part down and wonder why the version isn't great/working as the drummer/gtr etc etc cannot do the same with theirs) By that stretch, I am not too fussed about cover bands who try and play the original as is...so it figures that I am not that great on tribute bands who try and do the same thing. It is kind of like..has that player got something to say or is he is just spewing out someone elses line as close as he can technically get..with no soul or thought there at all, then I can give that take a miss.[/quote] I do take your point, but I've always loved to watch any good craftsman at work, be they a cabinet maker or a musician. Seeing/hearing someone at the top of their craft is, and I hope always will be, a thrill for me. Couldn't give a toss who "originally" had the idea to string the chords together in that particular order. One of the things I've always liked most about Jon Herington's (Steely Dan guitarist) live performances is that he does not "spew out someone elses line as close as he can technically get" but always puts something of himself into all his playing - even the anthem solos in songs like Kid Charlemagne and Peg. A truly awesome thing to behold, but he sure won't be getting any writing credits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Roland Rock' post='1155453' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:37 PM']When playing with my current (tribute) band, I play with as much soul and feeling as I did when playing in an originals band. Just because I didn't write the bassline, doesn't mean I can't play it with feeling. I agree with Bassicinstinct - it's the quality that matters. To use Bilbo's analogy, I'd rather watch many Alan Partridge repeats than watch one new episode of Snog, Marry Avoid.[/quote] +1 to ^this. If the original writer of a piece of music is the only person who can play it with feel or conviction then every other musician might as well not bother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I was just thinking. I have played thousands of gigs over 30+ years, playing rock/metal, funk, pop, Latin and Jazz and the biggest audience I ever played to was 4,500. With a 7-piece jazz band. I wish I could say it was playing originals but they weren't, although they were original arrangements of standards written by our lead trumpet player. Second biggest gig (2,500) was a pop gig playing all originals. Every covers band gig I have ever done has been to a maximum of 200 and often to much smaller audiences. Makes you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1155449' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:36 PM']Personally I don't pay attention to what cover bands are doing, what audiences they're playing to or what money they're making because it doesn't affect me at all. Our audience isn't going to go see them and their audience isn't going to come and see us, they're two completely different kinds of entertainment.[/quote] Absolutely. Saying that tribute bands are killing the market for interesting new music is a bit like saying that if it weren't for X-Factor and the like, primetime TV would be full of challenging new drama and intelligent documentaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1155477' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:49 PM']I was just thinking. I have played thousands of gigs over 30+ years, playing rock/metal, funk, pop, Latin and Jazz and the biggest audience I ever played to was 4,500. With a 7-piece jazz band. I wish I could say it was playing originals but they weren't, although they were original arrangements of standards written by our lead trumpet player. Second biggest gig (2,500) was a pop gig playing all originals. Every covers band gig I have ever done has been to a maximum of 200 and often to much smaller audiences. Makes you think.[/quote] My biggest audiences have also been for original music but then I've only ever gigged original music. Around 3000 at an event on a beach in New Jersey was our biggest audience. We were headlining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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