cetera Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='BigAlonBass' post='1153142' date='Mar 7 2011, 10:41 PM']If you play in front of an audience, you have to play what THEY want to hear, or you don't work. I'd rather play in front of an audience than sit noodling in my bedroom for the rest of my life. If I have to slightly compromise my ideals in order to do so, so be it. A lesson that some 'musicians' could do with learning. .....or be a little more understanding of those who are willing to fulfill that need. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1153445' date='Mar 8 2011, 09:52 AM']Are you having a go? [/quote] Perish the thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 It all depends on why you play music in the first play. I play (and write) music as a creative outlet. There's nothing very creative about doing covers, unless you're going to do something radical with them, in which case you're probably not going to get much work. Tribute bands, by their very nature, offer zilch room for creativity. The reason they suck is that they are killing the market for original music by creating a nice safe entertainment form for pubs and clubs to offer to the public. They are the flip side to the cheesiness that is the Stars in Their Eyes, the X Factor etc... If there are no (or very few) outlets left for original live music, then how are new bands going to develop in the first play? How will anyone ever know if they are any good or not? So don't give me all the crap excuses about entertaining the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153751' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:33 PM']It all depends on why you play music in the first play. I play (and write) music as a creative outlet. There's nothing very creative about doing covers, unless you're going to do something radical with them, in which case you're probably not going to get much work. Tribute bands, by their very nature, offer zilch room for creativity. The reason they suck is that they are killing the market for original music by creating a nice safe entertainment form for pubs and clubs to offer to the public. They are the flip side to the cheesiness that is the Stars in Their Eyes, the X Factor etc... If there are no (or very few) outlets left for original live music, then how are new bands going to develop in the first play? How will anyone ever know if they are any good or not? So don't give me all the crap excuses about entertaining the public.[/quote] Like the Murpheys......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153751' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:33 PM']It all depends on why you play music in the first play. I play (and write) music as a creative outlet. There's nothing very creative about doing covers, unless you're going to do something radical with them, in which case you're probably not going to get much work. Tribute bands, by their very nature, offer zilch room for creativity. The reason they suck is that they are killing the market for original music by creating a nice safe entertainment form for pubs and clubs to offer to the public. They are the flip side to the cheesiness that is the Stars in Their Eyes, the X Factor etc... If there are no (or very few) outlets left for original live music, then how are new bands going to develop in the first play? How will anyone ever know if they are any good or not? So don't give me all the crap excuses about entertaining the public.[/quote] Brokenhead? Is that Birkenhead? Will I be seeing you at Pacific Arts on Saturday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) The transactional nature of paid public performance means that you have to give the punters what they want. If you don't give them what they want, don't expect to get paid or get asked back. If you play for free, play what you like but don't expect to get laid. Audiences are not stupid sheep. They are people just like you and me, with tastes and preferences to which they are wholly entitled. Some might suggest that audiences are somehow being duped, or pub guvnors are 'holding back original talent' or that there is some sort of 'conspiracy'. This piffle is usually indicative of a delusional goal set, exacerbated by dashed hopes and issues of self esteem. Though not always. It can just be bad gig-targeting. Pubs like The Frog & Twat want 'easy'. Genre clubs / nights want 'challenging'. If one does one's homework and is prepared to travel, then the originals gigs are there. If you live in the arse-end of nowhere, best start saving for a van, because they aren't going to put wheels under a venue and move it closer to you. What it really comes down to is that certain 'musicians' want to play any old crap that [i]they[/i] like and believe that the paying punter should hurl adoration and cash at them for the privilege. By contrast, I applaud the honesty and maturity of bands - whether cover or tribute - who have the self-awareness to realise that live music is a business and you have an obligation to your customer. As for being creative, no-one should expect me to pay for [i]their[/i] self-improvement sessions. They can do it on their own dime. Edited March 8, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153751' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:33 PM']It all depends on why you play music in the first play. I play (and write) music as a creative outlet. There's nothing very creative about doing covers, unless you're going to do something radical with them, in which case you're probably not going to get much work. Tribute bands, by their very nature, offer zilch room for creativity. The reason they suck is that they are killing the market for original music by creating a nice safe entertainment form for pubs and clubs to offer to the public. They are the flip side to the cheesiness that is the Stars in Their Eyes, the X Factor etc... If there are no (or very few) outlets left for original live music, then how are new bands going to develop in the first play? How will anyone ever know if they are any good or not? So don't give me all the crap excuses about entertaining the public.[/quote] I won't give you the 'crap excuse about entertaining the public' when you stop using the crap excuse of 'killing the market for original music'. I've done the Tribute thing-although I'm not now-and I've done the original thing. The venues available to tribute bands are different from the ones available to original bands and the target audiences are different. It's a whole different scene. Let's be honest about it,I don't know one person in a tribute band that doesn't have another musical venture that allows them their creativity. Some even support their own tribute band at gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153751' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:33 PM']The reason they suck is that they are killing the market for original music by creating a nice safe entertainment form for pubs and clubs to offer to the public. They are the flip side to the cheesiness that is the Stars in Their Eyes, the X Factor etc... If there are no (or very few) outlets left for original live music, then how are new bands going to develop in the first play? How will anyone ever know if they are any good or not? So don't give me all the crap excuses about entertaining the public.[/quote] Cough! [size=1]*[i]bullshit....[/i]*[/size] I'm in a tribute band, a covers band and a function band. I've done the originals thing to death but didn't make it big & grew frustrated with the "I'm gonna be a star" egos of other band members... I play Corn Exchanges/Arts Centre type venues etc (i.e. NOT typical 'originals' venues - so NOT doing them out of gigs) and occasional 'clubs' where we often offer a 'support' slot to an up & coming local band. Said local band then gets to expose their music to 150-500 more people than they normally would and hence promote themselves for their own pub gigs etc. Some of these new bands are great and go on to do well, but many of them are either not very good, have zero stage presence, no 'songs' or don't know how to follow up promotionally on playing to such an audience. That is their fault... NOT the fault of any tribute band... Stop taking the easy way out and blaming everyone else for your own lack of success.... Edited March 8, 2011 by cetera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1153821' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:07 PM']Some even support their own tribute band at gigs.[/quote] I [i]am [/i]my own tribute band. I even dress up as myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1153836' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:18 PM']I [i]am [/i]my own tribute band. I even dress up as myself.[/quote] ....and if that's you in your avatar, it's a VERY fetching look - I must say!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='cetera' post='1153849' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:23 PM']....and if that's you in your avatar, it's a VERY fetching look - I must say!! [/quote] I'm [i]very [/i]fetching. I've got a Transit and I'll fetch anything you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1153855' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:27 PM']I'm [i]very [/i]fetching. I've got a Transit and I'll fetch anything you like.[/quote] Cool, can you go and pick up my new GK800RB for me?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ooooh, touchy!!! [quote]Brokenhead? Is that Birkenhead? Will I be seeing you at Pacific Arts on Saturday?[/quote] Yes it is, and no I don't think so. I love Steely Dan too...maybe i'll just put a CD on instead. [quote]Cough! *bullshit....*[/quote] Puke, i don't thinks so.... [quote]I've done the originals thing to death but didn't make it big & grew frustrated with the "I'm gonna be a star" egos of other band members... Stop taking the easy way out and blaming everyone else for your own lack of success....[/quote] No egos in our band and I'm not blaming anyone for my 'lack of success'. I might have had some aspirations in that direction 20 years ago, but now I'd just like to get a few more gigs and have somewhere local to go to see some original music. [quote]I won't give you the 'crap excuse about entertaining the public' when you stop using the crap excuse of 'killing the market for original music'. I've done the Tribute thing-although I'm not now-and I've done the original thing. The venues available to tribute bands are different from the ones available to original bands and the target audiences are different. It's a whole different scene.[/quote] 20 odd years ago there were loads of pubs and a couple of clubs in Wirral that put original bands on. Now there are bugger all, but there are loads that put covers and tribute bands on. Some of them are the very same venues. Maybe it's different in other areas, but I can only go on my own experience of the local music scene. Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='cetera' post='1153860' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:30 PM']Cool, can you go and pick up my new GK800RB for me?! [/quote] 50 mile radius applies. See T&C's. E&OE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153886' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:47 PM']Ooooh, touchy!!! [b]Yes it is, and no I don't think so. I love Steely Dan too...maybe i'll just put a CD on instead.[/b] Puke, i don't thinks so.... No egos in our band and I'm not blaming anyone for my 'lack of success'. I might have had some aspirations in that direction 20 years ago, but now I'd just like to get a few more gigs and have somewhere local to go to see some original music. 20 odd years ago there were loads of pubs and a couple of clubs in Wirral that put original bands on. Now there are bugger all, but there are loads that put covers and tribute bands on. Some of them are the very same venues. Maybe it's different in other areas, but I can only go on my own experience of the local music scene. Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be...[/quote] Oh come on, you know you want to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='BigAlonBass' post='1153142' date='Mar 7 2011, 10:41 PM']......and there's the crux of the whole argument, right there. If you play in front of an audience, you have to play what THEY want to hear, or you don't work.[/quote] [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1153794' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:56 PM']The transactional nature of paid public performance means that you have to give the punters what they want. If you don't give them what they want, don't expect to get paid or get asked back.[/quote] How times have changed! When I was cutting my musical teeth, the general vibe amongst serious bands was, you played what you [i]felt[/i] was good, you experimented, you attempted to do something original. Whether the audience were going to dig it or not was secondary. Seems now, there's too much "playing it safe", taking the easy route. Musicians these days seem to lack the courage of their convictions. Question: If a band has more success with songs than the original artists/bands, does that still make them a "covers band"? Guess it does! ...oh well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153751' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:33 PM']It all depends on why you play music in the first play. I play (and write) music as a creative outlet. There's nothing very creative about doing covers, unless you're going to do something radical with them, in which case you're probably not going to get much work. Tribute bands, by their very nature, offer zilch room for creativity. The reason they suck is that they are killing the market for original music by creating a nice safe entertainment form for pubs and clubs to offer to the public. They are the flip side to the cheesiness that is the Stars in Their Eyes, the X Factor etc... If there are no (or very few) outlets left for original live music, then how are new bands going to develop in the first play? How will anyone ever know if they are any good or not? So don't give me all the crap excuses about entertaining the public.[/quote] It may not be what you intended, but to me this come over like you need to sweeten your grapes somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='SteveK' post='1153935' date='Mar 8 2011, 03:22 PM']How times have changed! When I was cutting my musical teeth, the general vibe amongst serious bands was, you played what you [i]felt[/i] was good, you experimented, you attempted to do something original. Whether the audience were going to dig it or not was secondary.[/quote] Oh, agreed. I was there too. It was all because audiences temporarily engaged with the counterculture and eschewed bread-headery in favour of a mystic 'getting it together in the country, man' vibe. It was the fashion of the time. Overtly commercial bands were denigrated. The ones who made the big moolah were the ones who could most convincingly fake their sincerity and amateurishness. I give you The Rolling Stones, poster boys for the whole 'Outlaw Artist' malarkey. With their Rollers and country houses. The point is that these bands [i]gave their audiences what they wanted[/i]. And [i]very[/i] profitable it was, though not for some artists who - decades later - are suing for the cash they were too cool to keep track of at the time. So - and I genuinely mean this kindly - what's really changed? Edited March 8, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1153964' date='Mar 8 2011, 03:41 PM']Oh, agreed. I was there too. It was all because audiences temporarily engaged with the counterculture and eschewed bread-headery in favour of a mystic 'getting it together in the country, man' vibe. It was the fashion of the time. Overtly commercial bands were denigrated. The ones who made the big moolah were the ones who could most convincingly fake their sincerity and amateurishness. I give you The Rolling Stones, poster boys for the whole 'Outlaw Artist' malarkey. With their Rollers and country houses. The point is that these bands [i]gave their audiences what they wanted[/i]. And [i]very[/i] profitable it was, though not for some artists who - decades later - are suing for the cash they were too cool to keep track of at the time. So - and I genuinely mean this kindly - what's really changed? [/quote] Can't disagree with a word of that sir!! By the way, that was me you were quoting in your earlier post, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ok, so was Jimmy Hendrix giving the audience what they wanted? Frank Zappa? Pink Floyd? Maybe, once they'd built a fanbase and released a few records, but certainly not in the first instance. SteveK is dead right when he talks about many musicians now seeming to lacking the courage of their convictions to do what [i]they[/i] want, not simply regurgitate someone else's musical vomit. I think audiences [i]are[/i] generally sheep - if you give 'em the same old same old, they will continue to suck it up. If you at least try and give 'em something different, then maybe if you're very lucky they just might go for it. But if they never get to hear it, then... welcome the homogenised world of Cowell et al. Low cal music as part of a sensible lifestyle choice. Yuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1154030' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:40 PM']Ok, so was Jimmy Hendrix giving the audience what they wanted? Frank Zappa? Pink Floyd? Maybe, once they'd built a fanbase and released a few records, but certainly not in the first instance. SteveK is dead right when he talks about many musicians now seeming to lacking the courage of their convictions to do what [i]they[/i] want, not simply regurgitate someone else's musical vomit. I think audiences [i]are[/i] generally sheep - if you give 'em the same old same old, they will continue to suck it up. If you at least try and give 'em something different, then maybe if you're very lucky they just might go for it. But if they never get to hear it, then... welcome the homogenised world of Cowell et al. Low cal music as part of a sensible lifestyle choice. Yuk.[/quote] I've written and recorded my own music, and played in numerous original bands over the years. I'm happy enough playing someone else's musical vomit these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Pete Academy' post='1154037' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:44 PM']I've written and recorded my own music, and played in numerous original bands over the years. I'm happy enough playing someone else's musical vomit these days.[/quote] Me too Pete. One man's musical vomit is another man's musical diced carrot perhaps? Edited March 8, 2011 by bassicinstinct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Its the Macdonaldsisation of music. Tribute bands are small franchises of the bands they copy. Loads of people like them but they are ultimately lacking in nutrition and probably rot your teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='JellyKnees' post='1153886' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:47 PM']20 odd years ago there were loads of pubs and a couple of clubs in Wirral that put original bands on. Now there are bugger all, but there are loads that put covers and tribute bands on. Some of them are the very same venues. Maybe it's different in other areas, but I can only go on my own experience of the local music scene. Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be...[/quote] You ever tried going to Liverpool? Be realistic, the Wirral is mostly residential with no discernible musical backbone, where as 5 minutes across the water from you there's a wealth of live original music every night, just go to The Shipping Forecast, The Zanzibar, The Picket, The Masque, Bumper, The Magnet, The Static Gallery, Envi any night of the week and those really are just for starters. Tribute and cover bands might provide some brief flash in the pan entertainment in a lot of the live music venues on the Wirral, but they certainly don't kill off the desire for original live music (that's complete rubbish), and besides which there is near enough zero demand for it on the Wirral anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1154074' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:57 PM']Its the Macdonaldsisation of music. Tribute bands are small franchises of the bands they copy. Loads of people like them but they are ultimately lacking in nutrition and probably rot your teeth.[/quote] Only if you're a tribute to Sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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