Squier P-Bass

[hellothere]

I have an old Squier P-bass lying around gathering dust, it was my first bass but I never use it anymore for various reasons, the main one being there is some kind of electronics problem as it dosn't work with an amp anymore. First thing I would like to ask is how do I go about diagnosing the problem?

After seeing some of the home-made builds that people have completed on here it has inspired me to start tinkering myself. I figured that the P-bass is a perfect candidate for my first attempt at something like and was wondering what kind of things I should try out which would give me suitable experience to try other things in the future. First thing that comes to mind is replacing the pick-ups but then where could I go from there. I am doing this more as a learning experience than hoping to get a better bass out of it, allthough of course it would be nice to imrpove it's playability and sound too!

So any ideas?

[icastle]

[quote name='hellothere' post='1152956' date='Mar 7 2011, 08:42 PM']I have an old Squier P-bass lying around gathering dust, it was my first bass but I never use it anymore for various reasons, the main one being there is some kind of electronics problem as it dosn't work with an amp anymore. First thing I would like to ask is how do I go about diagnosing the problem?

After seeing some of the home-made builds that people have completed on here it has inspired me to start tinkering myself. I figured that the P-bass is a perfect candidate for my first attempt at something like and was wondering what kind of things I should try out which would give me suitable experience to try other things in the future. First thing that comes to mind is replacing the pick-ups but then where could I go from there. I am doing this more as a learning experience than hoping to get a better bass out of it, allthough of course it would be nice to imrpove it's playability and sound too!

So any ideas?[/quote]

If you're going to use it as a 'platform' to tinker with then the first thing to do is to get the electrics working again as they should otherwise you'll never be able to tell if your tinkering was any good!

If you've lost all sound output then I'd start at the jack socket and work backwards from there.

There's a basic PB wiring diagram [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=std_pbass"]here[/url] - check your Squier wiring and make sure it matches the diagram.

HTH

[Grand Wazoo]

how much is the budget you are willing to invest?

You say the bass don't work. That could be as simple as a loose / cut wire or as complicated as a f'd up pickup. Now the P bass has one of the world's simplest wiring schematics, so have a look here to learn how it should be wired, this way you can detect any anomalies and put them right. If all fails then your pickup is indeed f'd.

Seymour Duncan wiring diagram for standard P bass: [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/products/basslines/501030-100.pdf"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/produc.../501030-100.pdf[/url]

Get back to this thread after you have tested the wiring and we can take it from there but I anticipate the following.

To give your bass a solid sound I know for a fact that Squier wiring quality is poor in both material and workmanship not to mention the weakness of the pickup they use.

you can buy pickups from as low as £40 to as high as £120 and it all depends on how deep your pocket is, but we can talk about that later

First and foremost you need to junk all wiring and pots including the input jack and buy this kit from ebay which is the best available for a P bass, even a standard Fender would benefit from this kit:
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Angela-Premium-Wiring-Kit-Fender-Precision-P-Bass-/370435071607?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item563fa69e77"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Angela-Premium-Wirin...=item563fa69e77[/url]

before applying the new kit make sure the pickup and wiring cavities are well screened with the following: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUITAR-SCREENING-COPPER-TAPE-SHIELDING-SELF-ADHESIVE-/270703967186?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f0736bbd2"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUITAR-SCREENING-COP...=item3f0736bbd2[/url]

Then you can see about Seymour Duncan Vintage style pickup from as little as £47 [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Seymour-Duncan-SPB-1-Vintage-P-Bass-Pickup-NEW-/130427353607?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e5e137a07"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Seymour-Duncan-SPB-1...=item1e5e137a07[/url]

I think that's your lot!

Good luck

[DaveB]

After that de-fret it, theres a good one for ya

[Circle_of_Fifths]

I've got one of those old P-Affinity Squiers too and it is now a front-of-the-choir player.

First - the p'ups are really quite good - but that may depend on the vintage of the gear too.

The pots are sufficient, and in 13+ years I have not had a catastrophic failure of them nor scratchiness or any defect at all. I do NOT hang my hat on the knobs though, so your results may.... (insert disclaimer here).

Wiring is wiring and the real problem may just be a bad solder joint. Really now - wires don't just somehow fail unless they are hit with great gobs of electricity (unlikely) or they rot (very unlikely) or there's rodent activity (you'd know about this more than I, since I am not there and you are).

Any other mishap is kinda far-fetched and I have never had a wire spontaneous fail inside a bass, under a pickguard and no entry/exit wounds. You DO have a pickguard on this bass - right?

The one biggest problem I ever had with my P was the output jack and it failed in stages - first crackling and then needing the instrument cable to be draped over my shoulder to make a better connection with the male-female parts.

Oh - I did have a p'up start to fail after 13 years - so I got a used set of something-or-other-P-style from a Peavey bass. Just fine! It works and I still have that nice P-voice that I love. That should teach that Peavey owner to not leave his bass unattended.

I have pixs! Lots of pixs!

Oh - BTW: I added another switch and .1uF cap for super-Motown sounds!













[b]NOTICE - THERE ARE NO SCRATCHES ON THIS BASS - ANYWHERE! [/b]

I've got some pixs of my vacation last year too if you wanna see 'em.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Circle_of_Fifths

[hellothere]

Well first off I'm happy to spend money on this, within reason, taking into account this is the first project of this type I've attempted. So I'll listen to any suggestions.

Of course sorting out the wiring is my first priority and that is what I'll be attempting to do tommorow.

Is it possible to fit a pick up cover and ashtray if the bass didn't allready have one? (might be a stupid question, as i said, im totally new to doing anything like this.)

I would like to attempt de-fretting a bass some day but that is not something I will be trying any time soon.

And I think it would be a good idea to try and put in a new bridge aswell?

"First and foremost you need to junk all wiring and pots including the input jack and buy this kit from ebay which is the best available for a P bass, even a standard Fender would benefit from this kit"

From what circle of fifths said this dosn't sound entirely necessary but it is probably good practice right?

And circle you are obviously very proud of your bass and I'm only interested in seeing your holiday snaps if you took it with you lol.


Thankyou for all the help so far.

[Jerry_B]

You only really need to get rid of the wiring if it's definitely useless and dead to the world. If in fact it's just a case of a bad solder somewhere, you'd be better off just fixing that. Just because it's an old Squier, it doesn't necessarily mean that the pickups are junk.

[icastle]

[quote name='hellothere' post='1153212' date='Mar 7 2011, 11:40 PM']Is it possible to fit a pick up cover and ashtray if the bass didn't allready have one? (might be a stupid question, as i said, im totally new to doing anything like this.)[/quote]
Absolutely
Get yourself a little drill bit to make the pilot holes though or you'll have a hell of a job doing it!
[quote name='hellothere' post='1153212' date='Mar 7 2011, 11:40 PM']And I think it would be a good idea to try and put in a new bridge aswell?[/quote]
You could do, but unless it's something significantly better than what's already on there then you're not going to make a huge difference to the overall performance of the instrument.
It comes off exactly the way you'd expect it to - just undo the screws.
Make sure the little wire you find under the bridge goes back under the new bridge if you decide to change it or you'll have a whole new set of problems
[quote name='hellothere' post='1153212' date='Mar 7 2011, 11:40 PM']"First and foremost you need to junk all wiring and pots including the input jack and buy this kit from ebay which is the best available for a P bass, even a standard Fender would benefit from this kit"[/quote]
That's a contencious point.
There are those who seem convinced that changing a few scraps of wire, two pots and a capacitor is going to turn any old bass into a hi-tech masterpiece.
On the other side of the scale there are those who reckon it's all just a pile of old cack and a bit of stripped down flex off of a discarded toaster will do the exact same job.

It's you that has to be happy with the final result, so go with your gut feel on this one!

[Grand Wazoo]

Lets review this subject from a practical point, shall we?

[b]Question: [/b]Why are Squier basses so cheap compared to real Fender?
[b]Answer: [/b]because they are bodged together by low paid factory workers in the third world (Indonesia to name one) and made to look like the real thing at the least possible cost and without hardly any luthier skills in the making of them.

The End.

Apart from the very early 1983 JV's series which were the equivalent of what today is CIJ and MIJ Fender's all the other Squier's that came after the JV's were made with cheapness as a priority in other words to stop the loss of revenue Fender was suffering from all the copycat companies of the time, if you can't beat them join them so here is why we have Squier.

The Classic Vibe series from China has been the best out of the lot after the JV's but even those are built with very very cheap electronic parts. The pots are bad and the wires used are so weak you can cut them with your nails. How can a proper quality signal be carried through such low quality components is what divides the boys from the men here, The pickups are definately not hifi and if you have ever owned a real Fender you will know why. But hey. Each to his own and if you are happy with a Squier as standard then god bless you. However if you want it to sound good and last you well, then a few pounds spent on it will make a great improvement in the performance side of things.

Modding a cheap bass is a great platform to appreciate what makes a good quality instrument.


+++

And by the way that was free advice I have given, so you should just appreciate it as that, the words gift horse & mouth comes to mind. I'll be damned if I'll give any more advice if that is the response I get.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Grand Wazoo

[hellothere]

[quote]"Lets review this subject from a practical point, shall we?

Question: Why are Squier basses so cheap compared to real Fender?
Answer: because they are bodged together by low paid factory workers in the third world (Indonesia to name one) and made to look like the real thing at the least possible cost and without hardly any luthier skills in the making of them.

The End.

Apart from the very early 1983 JV's series which were the equivalent of what today is CIJ and MIJ Fender's all the other Squier's that came after the JV's were made with cheapness as a priority in other words to stop the loss of revenue Fender was suffering from all the copycat companies of the time, if you can't beat them join them so here is why we have Squier.

The Classic Vibe series from China has been the best out of the lot after the JV's but even those are built with very very cheap electronic parts. The pots are bad and the wires used are so weak you can cut them with your nails. How can a proper quality signal be carried through such low quality components is what divides the boys from the men here, The pickups are definately not hifi and if you have ever owned a real Fender you will know why. But hey. Each to his own and if you are happy with a Squier as standard then god bless you. However if you want it to sound good and last you well, then a few pounds spent on it will make a great improvement in the performance side of things.

Modding a cheap bass is a great platform to appreciate what makes a good quality instrument.


+++

And by the way that was free advice I have given, so you should just appreciate it as that, the words gift horse & mouth comes to mind. I'll be damned if I'll give any more advice if that is the response I get.[/quote]

Well that sounds like sound logic to me. I don't really know much about the technology side of this kind of stuff so I am just asking questions and trying to learn a few pointers, so I'm pretty impressionable at the moment lol.

I am planning on getting new pick ups though as I do notice the difference in quality compared to others.

Of course I'm not happy with a Squier as standard or I would never have bothered trying to do anything like this, nor would I have bought my Iceman and my Stingray! The other reason being because I agree that this will help me understand and appreciate what "makes" a bass better aswell as being good practice for the future.

I appreciate the free advice, from you and everyone else. Infact what you said was exactly the kind fo response I was looking for, so thankyou.


[quote]"First and foremost you need to junk all wiring and pots including the input jack and buy this kit from ebay which is the best available for a P bass, even a standard Fender would benefit from this kit"

From what circle of fifths said this dosn't sound entirely necessary but it is probably good practice right?

And circle you are obviously very proud of your bass and I'm only interested in seeing your holiday snaps if you took it with you lol.[/quote]


I don't see what offended you in my response as I meant nothing by it.

As I said, I know not a great deal about this side of things so am happy to listen to different opinions and can only find out what I beleive once I have put it into practice. I wasn't discarding what you said, I was pointing out that someone else dosn't see the need for that and wanted someone to go into more detail. Maybe I could have worded it better. But I really don't feel such a defensive reply was needed and I don't think I was looking a gift horse in the mouth. I wouldn't bother posting here if I didn't want other peoples opinions and advice.

I think there may have been some kind of misunderstanding on either my part or yours?

No hard feelings?

Edited March 8, 2011 by hellothere

[Circle_of_Fifths]

I'd hate to see this guy's fingernails if he can render asunder a wire with any of them - fangs, maybe but fingernails, no way.

I have a complete wire kit from Fender for the basses I have - if and when I need them. In spite of the age of the Squier - it has the same gauge wire, the same cloth covering (that 'vintage-thingy' that everybody wants except for a bass slapper) - so I don't get it ??!!??

The wires aren't gonna give you magic tones nor is changing the pots nor the cap nor the [u]anything[/u] if you don't have something that's actually broken and just needs replacement anyway.

Yeah - this isn't a $3,000.00USD bass by any means - but we aren't going to get anywhere telling this new-poster to rip his bass apart for what is going to be a negligible at best improvement for his application(s) - musically [u]or[/u] aesthetically either.

The pickups - if they aren't all shriveled up inside or had the wax melted out of them and they've gone microphonic - well, it just ain't penguin to want to change them for any other reason.

Yup - they are possibly not as hot as a modern bass - but be ye not fooled - these pickups and pots are more than up to a good job and are gonna get you into bass-playing and tinkering, well on your way.

You can do what you want - but I'd concentrate on NEEDS first - fix the broken whatever it turns out to be - and play the poor thing until you find that 'something' that isn't to your liking.

FWIW::: the necks on most Affinity and Squier basses are very good - I have my old #13 (for years old) and I admire the wires in the frets which are so smooth and back from the edge like my MiM Jazz or even my older SR500 - which has some very good fret work too!

I've seen high-dollar basses from fender that cost over $3,000.00USD that can shred cheese or clean under your fingernails on the sides of the necks - so if you have something nice - or it can be made that way (it can!) - then you are miles/kilometers ahead of the curve here. Bad fret work isn't just limited to low priced guitars - all brands and places of manufacture can be equal opportunity offenders in the venue.

This is to be a learning experience for you - accept it as so and roll around in it - enjoy yourself. I am always suspect of anyone who generally badmouths a bass for brand, country of origin and peer pressure mixed with economics lessons and sheer snobbishness.

Wire??? Bah!!! I've heard the iconoclasts proclaim that a black power wire from the wall to the amp makes for better tone that a brown one. Uh huh. Sounds to me like something to be argued in Parliament.

Pots??? Bah !!! If they work and don't crackle or fall off. 250KΩ pots are still 250KΩ pits no matter the manufacturer and working is the true test. These things are like a light bulb - they are good until they aren't. Simple.

Personally - the bridge IS the most arguable subject you can bring up - well, right after tone woods, that is. Leave yours alone until you either decide that you want a pretty chrome-y one or you have some extra coins in your pocket and just need to spend them on [i]SOME[/i]thing.

MY opinion here: You will regret putting one on for a few reasons - the most base of which is the extra holes you may have to bore into the body to accommodate them and then explain that it was really an infestation of small Argentinian bass-eating bugs that chomped well formed holes there after you take that ignorant thing OFF and put the stock one back on, extra holes a-showing.

If you think not - check out your CL and see how many HM bridges are offered for sale - used. You don't want to have to wear two bags over your head to play your bass in public - do you? The first bag is in case someone might recognize you playing a hole-y bass and the second bag is in case the first bag fails.

Otherwise - beware of the '[u]sustain with- verses sustain without- a Hi-Mass bridge[/u]' Hyde-Parker/soap-boxers who will drive you to frustration (if not public drunkenness).

Hi-Mass Bridges - therein lies madness! I know of what I am speaking here.

Finally (until my next post) anyone who/whom suggests that your Squire bass as a piece of something less than desirable - needs to take a time out and just remember that not everyone is born with a silver bass in their mouth, but could certainly be better educated if someone were to put one there for them.



{the normal disclosures and disclaimers}

Edited March 8, 2011 by Circle_of_Fifths

[hellothere]

I would just like to point out this isn't my only bass and that is why I am happy to tamper with it. I'm not new to playing bass either, I am just new to do any type of modification or changing anything beyond strings! lol

I can see what you are saying about the bridge and allthough I do want to improve my Squier so I feel happy using it in lieu of my other basses it is first and foremost a way to learn how to do things myself, understand more about the working of a bass and so on. So normally I would only agree with changing something if it needs changing but in this case I just want to try out as many thigns as I can which leaves me with a playable, decent sounding bass still lol.

I am definitly going to try to fix whatever is wrong with it (by the sound of it probably just some soldering that has came loose) before starting any modifications. It is where to go from there that I need to decide on. The only thign I am 100% sure on is replacing the pick-ups, when I get to that, the question is what pick-ups? Any other ideas I'm willing to listen to. Whether it is things that will improve sound or playability or just something that will teach me some useful knowledge.

Edit: Would it be possible to get a vintage bridge, ash tray, pick-up cover and put them on? What kind of price would I be looking at? Edited March 8, 2011 by hellothere

[tom1946]

In defence of Mr Wazoo I have changed the wiring on a Squier that had plastic covered wire and small pots and while it didn't make the earth shake the progression of the volume and tone was much more evenly spread, not 'on or off' like the original.

What does the capacitor do? How necessary is it?

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='hellothere' post='1153292' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:00 AM']I don't see what offended you in my response as I meant nothing by it.

No hard feelings?[/quote]

No pal nothing offensive from you, it wasn't you who got my back up it was this wrong'n...

[quote]That's a contencious point.
There are those who seem convinced that changing a few scraps of wire, two pots and a capacitor is going to turn any old bass into a hi-tech masterpiece.
On the other side of the scale there are those who reckon it's all just a pile of old cack and a bit of stripped down flex off of a discarded toaster will do the exact same job.[/quote]

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='tom1946' post='1153329' date='Mar 8 2011, 07:25 AM']In defence of Mr Wazoo I have changed the wiring on a Squier that had plastic covered wire and small pots and while it didn't make the earth shake the progression of the volume and tone was much more evenly spread, not 'on or off' like the original.

[b][size=4]What does the capacitor do? How necessary is it?[/size][/b][/quote]

I am glad you've asked that question, well a good quality capacitor, when used in conjunction with quality pots and wirings, will actually do a very impressive job, in fact your tone control will have an amazing sweep from 0 to max going from very dark but not muffled to very bright while retaining bass presence and not just a brittle toppy sound, in fact at every bit in between the pot sweep you can really appreciate the differece it makes. I know is a cliche' but hearing is believing.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='icastle' post='1153251' date='Mar 8 2011, 12:23 AM']....That's a contencious point.
There are those who seem convinced that changing a few scraps of wire, two pots and a capacitor is going to turn any old bass into a hi-tech masterpiece.
On the other side of the scale there are those who reckon it's all just a pile of old cack and a bit of stripped down flex off of a discarded toaster will do the exact same job...[/quote]

Very diplomatically put.
I know which side guys like you and me who have a better handle on these things would come down on.

[luckman67]

I have just read this thread & at the moment I'm in the process of making my 1989 Korean made Squier precision a better bass.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='hellothere' post='1153304' date='Mar 8 2011, 03:06 AM']Would it be possible to get a vintage bridge, ash tray, pick-up cover and put them on?[/quote]
Yes. Buy 'em, drill the body and screw them on. If you decide to go for a new pickguard - beware. They're not all the same dimensions / number of screwholes. If in doubt, contact the supplier and explain which bass you've got. They might tell you whether the part fits or not.

[quote name='hellothere' post='1153304' date='Mar 8 2011, 03:06 AM']What kind of price would I be looking at?[/quote]
Prices vary from frankly ludicrous (£xxx for a real 'vintage' piece) to virtually diddly. Check out Allparts UK, WD Music UK, Axes-r-us and Fleabay for prices.

Example: Axes r us want £8 for a bridge cover free deliv. [url="http://www.axesrus.com/AxePlatesBass.html"]http://www.axesrus.com/AxePlatesBass.html[/url] But they don't seem to have a pup cover...doh!

As for the whole philosophy of whether quality components are better - well, 'hearing' is such a personal thing that you might as well give it a go and decide for yourself. Avoid buying any daftly expensive components and just have some fun tinkering. Get a decent quality soldering iron, though. It makes the difference between success and failure - as I've discovered to my cost in the past.

Edited March 8, 2011 by skankdelvar

[icastle]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1153490' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:21 AM']
Very diplomatically put.[/quote]

I thought it was, but obviously some didn't and have taken umbrage.
Oh well, that's life...

[hellothere]

Well thats good to hear Wazoo and in that case please don't stop sharing your thoughts.

[quote]Prices vary from frankly ludicrous (£xxx for a real 'vintage' piece) to virtually diddly. Check out Allparts UK, WD Music UK, Axes-r-us and Fleabay for prices.

Example: Axes r us want £8 for a bridge cover free deliv. [url="http://www.axesrus.com/AxePlatesBass.html"]http://www.axesrus.com/AxePlatesBass.html[/url] But they don't seem to have a pup cover...doh!

As for the whole philosophy of whether quality components are better - well, 'hearing' is such a personal thing that you might as well give it a go and decide for yourself. Avoid buying any daftly expensive components and just have some fun tinkering. Get a decent quality soldering iron, though. It makes the difference between success and failure - as I've discovered to my cost in the past. sad.gif[/quote]

Thankyou for giving me a few places to look to start pricing parts. As for the soldering iron *looks at the soldering iron that has been around since before I was born* maybe it's time to buy a new one

And I'll definitly make sure if I do change the pickguard, oh, and if it is the same size and number of screwholes will all the screholes be in the right place and of the right size?


------------------

And after seeing that it people have such differing views on wiring I think I will do it anyway, as Skank said, it's probably best to decide for myself. It will also give me practice working with the elctronics. So I'll probably do what Wazoo suggest near the start of the thread.


Right now I'm heading out but once I get back I'm going to take a look at the wiring.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='hellothere' post='1153742' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:25 PM']if it is the same size and number of screwholes will all the screholes be in the right place and of the right size?[/quote]
It ... [i]depends[/i]... he said warily.

Certainly, it pays to have your existing pickguard to hand when browsing the parts-porn sites. Or take it down the shop for a comparison. Even with an apparently identical part it's always a bit of a gamble. But the odd, slightly misaligned or re-drilled hole won't show behind the guard.

OTOH, if that sort of thing really bothers you, it opens up the whole exciting world of re-finishing

Edited March 8, 2011 by skankdelvar

[Ou7shined]

I'm not knocking those ready built looms per se. They are great for a novice tinkerer to fit if the only alternative is taking it to a tech to be repaired.

But every time someone extols the notion that cloth covered wire and fat pots sound better than plastic sleeved and skinny pots a wee bit of our credibility as a good knowledge base dies.

[AttitudeCastle]

A little off topic, but i have a 2007 VM P-bass (White with black Pick guard one) and the truss rod is broken and the neck is cracked so i'm replacing the neck!

Is the neck pocket in the squires the same as the Fenders?

Cheers!

[Jerry_B]

AFAIK, the pocket is the same.

[hellothere]

Well Skank I will definitly make sure to check it down to the last detail if I do replace the pick-guard.

And Ou7shined a novice tinkerer is exactly what I am so I think I will do that. For the practice if nothing else.

Once I have learnt more about fiddling around with basses I might try to right a beginners guide style thing for other people who want to try something for the first time.