Deleting posts and provenance of equipment sold on BC

[Gust0o]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1153549' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:57 AM']I entirely agree with keeping as much history as possible, but not for this ( ^ ) reason!

Values change over time. Recently, and for very obvious reasons, the trend has been downwards. In future at some point, that trend will reverse and will become upwards.

What someone paid for a pre-owned 2004 Warwick FNA in May 2008 (for example) is of very little relevance in March 2011.

More importantly, what someone has just paid for that same bass in March 2011, at rock bottom in the worst financial crisis in living memory, will be highly misleading in three years' time when things are recovering.

If you're offered a high-quality bass for £500 this week because the seller is bone skint and needs the cash right now, why should that leave you open to accusations of profiteering in 2014 when you sell it on for £750?[/quote]

I'm entirely in agreement with Happy Jack, as I suspect one of the key bits of 'useful' information people are finding missing is price - which I think leads us on to the other great debate of the For Sale section, which is whether one should seek additional value in our dealings or not.

The market is the market, and a bass is ultimately worth what someone is prepared to pay for it - and I strongly disagree with the law of diminishing returns which some members feel should apply; a law which neatly avoids the current bouyancy of 'vintage' Fender prices, seemingly despite the physical condition of what was a relatively cheap instrument at the original point of sale.

Sure, it's an absurd example - but then it's absurd to expect value to remain static, and for the market not to adapt or fluctuate.

I'd happily make some recommendations for the For Sale section:

- Completed listings marked as 'SOLD' or 'TRADED'
- Mandatory donations for listings (possibly a set level of a percentage - even 1% would help BC, I suspect)
- The use of templates to help regulate consistency in listings and information

[TimR]

What is the relevance of the for sale price anyway?

Everything I've bought and sold as been for a different amount to the initial post price.

What is the problem if someone buys something cheap and sells it for more? Every transaction is different, everyone's circumstances are different, that's the nature of buying and selling second hand equipment.

If I bought a bass for £100 knowing it was worth far more and got it it cheap because someone was desperate to sell it. Then I put it back up on here for a lot more because I was happy to wait for a good price I don't think I would want everyone trying to knock me down to less than £100 just because they knew how much I paid for it.

It depends whether you view the service provided by the forum as a place where we come to help each other out as fellow bass players by swapping gear at low prices or whether you view it as a true market place where people are trying to make money out of buying and selling gear.

I suggest it is the latter where it is up to the individual seller to drop the price in genuine situations.

[oldslapper]

Guilty of being a sheep, I thought it was the done thing to delete price on completion.
Have no view on whether it should or shouldn't be done, but I suspect that one or two more will have deleted information on completion as they have seen others do it.
Not and excuse, but a possible reason.

As for price/value....if something doesn't sell, perhaps it's because no one wants to buy your markbenzbergfanniedfretless, no matter what the price is.

[Cat Burrito]

I'd rather the listings were left, especially as the mods quite rightly aren't deleting stuff. Just an edit to say "Withdrawn" or "Sold" rather than a re-writing of history. It never happened! I've always thought people do it mainly because they've seen others do it rather than any exciting other reason.

[quote name='TimR' post='1153706' date='Mar 8 2011, 12:51 PM']What is the relevance of the for sale price anyway?

Everything I've bought and sold as been for a different amount to the initial post price.[/quote]
It serves as a guide to potential sellers wanting to sell. Most of my sales go for slightly less than asking price but then there is no harm in listing with a similar asking price that that seller probably won't get either. We're normally talking £20 less not hundreds of pounds. I find it reall useful if I was selling a certain piece of kit just to gauge what the going rate might be. It's a ball park figure and nothing more.

[martthebass]

Dont think I've ever trawled back through posts to get an idea of 'last price'. I think there's too much variance for that. However I do agree that it can affect forward pricing....the recent price trends on MM's and Warwicks have demonstrated that IMHO.

I'm guilty of deleting posts from my own for sale threads but that's primarily to weed out endless 'bumps' on long threads.

[Hamster]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1153590' date='Mar 8 2011, 11:24 AM']I usually host any pics of anything I'm selling on my own site and delete once it's sold, simply because it's not my equipment any more, why would I host pics of someone else's equipment?[/quote]

It's quite easy to upload the images to Basschat and insert them on the advert as an attachment to save on taking up hosting space on a personal website.

[Doctor J]

Space isn't the issue though. It's no longer my instrument, whether it's for display should be at the discretion of the new owner (I.M.O. of course)

Edited March 8, 2011 by Doctor J

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1153858' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:29 PM']Space isn't the issue though. It's no longer my instrument, whether it's for display should be at the discretion of the new owner (I.M.O. of course)[/quote]

Different strokes ... my sig links to photos of (almost) all the basses I've owned. Most of them are marked 'Sold' and I keep them there because I find them interesting, and some others do too. I have no idea who owns them all now, but that's not really what interests me about a bass.

Not having a pop. This is a subject on which it's possible to find many different viewpoints.

[EddyGlee]

I've always erased information after buying, selling or withdrawning gear, and will continue to do so simply as a precautionary measure, I've nothing to hide during a sale/purchase and I gladly give all information to potensial buyer/seller, but speaking from someone who has been burgled 3 times I do not wish to advertise a catolouge of things I've bought, sold or withdrawn, and for the same reason .. I don't list my gear on my signature!
the internet is a window to the world outside, it's full of people with no interest in buying, selling .. you wouldn't put a list of your living room contents in your front window would you? whats the difference!
with prices ever changing in the market place, left posts serve no purpose other than to feed nosey peoples curiosity,
If we lived in an ideal world then I wouldn't mind, but speak to any crime prevention officer as i have done on the few mentioned occasions.

kind regards

Chris

[BigRedX]

Erasing the info is a complete waste of time if someone has already quoted your post as the info in the quote won't be altered.

[Machines]

[quote name='EddyGlee' post='1153905' date='Mar 8 2011, 02:57 PM']you wouldn't put a list of your living room contents in your front window would you? whats the difference![/quote]
I don't know where you live unless you tell me ?!

[Doctor J]

Next time you gig (which you will advertise) we'll follow you home

[EddyGlee]

[quote name='Machines' post='1153921' date='Mar 8 2011, 03:09 PM']I don't know where you live unless you tell me ?![/quote]

I know that is true mate, but that information does become available with every potensial sale/purchase,
I know there is no sure way to prevent anything, all i'm saying is you can minimize the risk by not leaving a catolouge for people to peruse

[chris_b]

[quote name='EddyGlee' post='1153949' date='Mar 8 2011, 03:29 PM']....I know that is true mate, but that information does become available with every potensial sale/purchase,
I know there is no sure way to prevent anything, all i'm saying is you can minimize the risk by not leaving a catolouge for people to peruse....[/quote]
I guess you'll be safest if you never buy or sell on the internet then.

Unless "they" are reading your thoughts!!

[Gust0o]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1154009' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:25 PM']I guess you'll be safest if you never buy or sell on the internet then.

Unless "they" are reading your thoughts!![/quote]

I'm trying, and let me tell you - I hope your mother doesn't know you have such thoughts!

[risingson]

Chris, I put the 'please delete' thing because I'd seen quite a few other people do it recently. I haven't done it on any other items I've sold in the past but this was purely by chance, nothing sinister involved, however I do feel like I should clarify this point seeing as you were 'suspicious' of what was going on having trawled through my earlier FS threads. What I will say was perhaps on some level I wanted to see the back of my FS thread as it had been a bit of a nightmare, though it still wouldn't have made a difference to me whether the thread was deleted or not, not even the slightest. I was simply following the example of what others were doing, figured it could be a space saving exercise but I guess not.

Anyway, enough. We've discussed the ins and outs of my for sale thread and I think it's best left there, so I won't go into details (I didn't PM you back last night after my initial message not because I was ignoring you, I don't ignore PMs, but I didn't really think there was anything left to say seeing as the bass was sold and it wasn't to you). Once again, if I'd known it would have kicked up such a big fuss then I wouldn't have bothered, believe me, and there really isn't much more to say on the subject.

Edited March 8, 2011 by risingson

[EddyGlee]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1154009' date='Mar 8 2011, 04:25 PM']I guess you'll be safest if you never buy or sell on the internet then.

Unless "they" are reading your thoughts!![/quote]

I have no problems at all buying and selling on the internet.
Chris asked our thoughts on leaving bought/sold history .. I explained why I don't!
only my view to respect privacy, but whatever anyone chooses is fine be me.

[jezzaboy]

I seem to remember one of the mods mentioning in the past that they prefer to keep the item description intact as it helps when people run a search on Google or similar. It direct`s non members onto the site.

I have no problem leaving the details of a sale but if people want to remove the info for a reason, then it`s up to them. If you suspect dirty deeds, walk away.

Jez

[RichF]

this is a really fundamental point that does connect to the whole "profiteering" thing often debated. I like the fact that BC has a community feel but it is more or less that for people, and there are clearly lots of people not at all connected about the spirit of the site. So the question for me is whether we "set the bar low" or "high" in relation to what's accepted practice. It's pretty standard to set it low and it's nice occasionally to find a site willing it set it a bit higher. So if this is really a community then lending stuff, advice, support, etc., all vital. I tend to be of the camp less convinced about the supposed for sale rules whether that's "never make a profit" or "keep all info always". I suspect that suits guys who do a lot of dealing and happens to suit them in keeping the price low and ensuring they have the info to keep the price low. However, isn't it in everyone's interest to keep the price low? We are in the classic dilemma here. I think there is a genuine group of guys who like to have ready access to cheap(er) basses and like to make their basses available cheap(er) (assuming they are consistent). THis is fine as long as community is about more than that, which I very much hope and assume it is.

Edited March 8, 2011 by RichardFoggo

[Chest Rockwell]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1153530' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:44 AM']The rule should be to put SOLD alongside the post title and leave the detail for others to view.

Some of us have been requesting this for years.[/quote]

I have been mostly lurking as I have the basses I want/need/can afford right now, but I did raise this issue a while ago. As someone that was trawling the site for info and new bass options, I found it rather annoying to suddenly see an item I was watching suddenly be sold and all info deleted. or older items also wiped. it made trying to work out what was the best price for similar items, i.e. a price I'd realistically have to pay, very hard. it made it difficult to see what the value of different attributes (neck/pickups etc) made to otherwise similar basses.

besides I generally think it looks like 'I've sold this now and you were no help so im gonna take my ball and go home'.

the only plausible explanation I've heard anyone give is that they dont want their house robbed, but that's the Buyer, not the Seller.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='1154887' date='Mar 9 2011, 08:07 AM']... the only plausible explanation I've heard anyone give is that they dont want their house robbed, but that's the Buyer, not the Seller.[/quote]

Good point.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='1154887' date='Mar 9 2011, 08:07 AM']....the only plausible explanation I've heard anyone give is that they dont want their house robbed, but that's the Buyer, not the Seller....[/quote]
Sorry, that's isn't plausible, it’s paranoia. As personal details are restricted to PM’s do you really think someone is going to post an ad simply to get your address so they can rob you? Burglars don't work like that.

[Mlucas]

It would possibly be a more sensible alternative for the buyer or seller to print screen the thread or PMs as a personal record, thus saving space and having evidence of the sale

[Chest Rockwell]

[quote name='Mlucas' post='1155000' date='Mar 9 2011, 10:07 AM']It would possibly be a more sensible alternative for the buyer or seller to print screen the thread or PMs as a personal record, thus saving space and having evidence of the sale[/quote]

I dont see how that's sensible, but I do see how it's not carbon friendly

besides, what's this talk of 'saving space'? that makes no sense in the context of the constant miniaturisation of technology and increased storage capacity. text still takes up the same amount of space as it ever did, it's the pictures and whizz-bang clever web stuff that takes up space. so delete your avatars if you want to save space.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Chest Rockwell

[Machines]

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='1155035' date='Mar 9 2011, 10:38 AM']so delete your avatars if you want to save space.[/quote]
Max avatar size is 200KB. We have apx 12000 members, even if they ALL used an avatar at the maximum size that'd only be 2.34GB. I have more space than that free on my phone...