absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hi all, i'm hoping for some advice on this.... I just sold a Gibson SG via ebay and have received an email from the buyer stating that the guitar has arrived with a headstock break. Now, I know this is a common weak spot with Gibsons and I had taken account of this by loosening the tension in the strings before postage, bubble wrapping the guitar inside the hard case, then putting the hard case in a cardboard box (an actual Gibson one from my local guitar shop) with additional packing material so the case didnt move around inside the box. I've used this Courier to send guitars (in less extreme packing may I add) on a number of occasions and have never had any problems. My main concern is that the buyer, throughout the process kept emailing and stressing that the packing should be as secure as possible (fair enough) and this has sort of got my spidey senses tingling, I'm not sure why, it just has. Now, I should state that there is nothing at the moment to suggest anything untoward has taken place but I just have a feeling in my gut. The buyer has asked if I have any solutions now the guitar has been de-valued (which seemed a strange way to phrase things). I guess i'd like to know if anyone has had a similar experience or has any advice to offer???? So far, I have got back in touch and apologised for the problem. I've asked for detailed photographs as well as stating that I would require the guitar to be returned so I could put it into a shop to have the damage fully assessed and a likely cause determined before being able to make any sort of claim to the courier and once this had taken place I would be able to offer a refund. Am I going about this the right way? I've never been in this position before and any advice will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Horse Murphy Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think you've gone about it in exactly the right way. I don't think your buyer could expect you to be any more diligent than you have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Old Horse Murphy' post='1155179' date='Mar 9 2011, 12:36 PM']I think you've gone about it in exactly the right way. I don't think your buyer could expect you to be any more diligent than you have been[/quote] +1 just keep a cool head and stay in control ie don't let him start dictating terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Its been suggested that I ask if the buyer inspected the guitar before signing for it from the courier...otherwise there would be no way to prove the damage didn't occur after delivery, does this seem reasonable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Sounds like you packaged the instrument securely. Make sure you get the buyer to take accurate and detailed phoos of the following: - The instrument around the damaged area and a full shot - An internal view of the box showing all of the packaging. Also the case and any other packaging. - An exterior view of the box showing any damage. All of those things were required when i claimed on a courier-damaged item. Also i had to produce a receipt of the replacement part i purchased before i could claim. I don't know how that would work with a devalued instrument though. Is it fully insured? You've done things correctly but that doesn't mean eBay/Paypal won't bum you out of the money and leave you with a damaged guitar. Another thing, if the buyer wants to keep hold of the guitar but get a partial refund as it is devalued then be careful. But then you probably already knew that! Basically, get all the information you need to claim from the courier (prob best fire off an email now and start a claim) and then get the guitar back - preferably using the same courier so they can't blame anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Sounds like the courier is trying to wriggle their way out of it... fairly standard procedure. This is why I take pics of the wrapping process and the finished package whenever I send a bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) Guys, firstly thanks for the help. I'm a bit panicked at the moment so cheers, I knew I could count on some good advice! OU7shined, I havent contact the courier yet but i'm sure they will do everything in their effort not to pay. I just want to make sure that I am covered and that both me (as seller) and buyer are within our rights. Edited March 9, 2011 by absolutpepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1155227' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:02 PM']Sounds like the courier is trying to wriggle their way out of it... fairly standard procedure. This is why I take pics of the wrapping process and the finished package whenever I send a bass.[/quote] That's a good idea, i think i'll do that from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1155210' date='Mar 9 2011, 12:55 PM']Its been suggested that I ask if the buyer inspected the guitar before signing for it from the courier...otherwise there would be no way to prove the damage didn't occur after delivery, does this seem reasonable?[/quote] Yes totally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1155232' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:05 PM']Guys, firstly thanks for the help. I'm a bit panicked at the moment so cheers, I knew I could count on some good advice! OU7shined, I havent contact the courier yet but i'm sure they will do everything in their effort not to pay. I just want to make sure that I am covered and that both me (as seller) and buyer are within our rights.[/quote] They may grumble a bit to start with but if your buyer explains how the driver asked for the signature then drove off before he got a chance to open the acres of wrapping.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 My spidey senses are also tingling! I had a buyer who did exactly the same, that is, pretty much told me ahead of me sending it what was going to break. You have to put a label on the package in big red letters saying: "Stop, unless the courier will allow you to unwrap and check this item now, sign for this package as 'damaged' and not as undamaged". IME, most of the drivers are surprisingly happy to either wait for you to check the items or to let you sign for it as damaged. Either way, you as the seller are better covered in the sort of situation described above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 So when I fill out a claim form do you think I should claim the full value of the guitar or just the repair???? - given that the guitar is now considerably de-valued as a result of the damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I'd go with the full value just now. If you get it back and get an estimate for the repair then you can decide whether to contact them about it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1155198' date='Mar 9 2011, 12:47 PM']+1 just keep a cool head and stay in control ie don't let him start dictating terms.[/quote] Buyer is now requesting a full refund prior to the return of the guitar, alongside a refund for their expense to send back to me. If I do this i'm likely to end up with no guitar or payment, oh dear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1155348' date='Mar 9 2011, 02:09 PM']Buyer is now requesting a full refund prior to the return of the guitar, alongside a refund for their expense to send back to me. If I do this i'm likely to end up with no guitar or payment, oh dear![/quote] DO NOT DO THIS. FOLLOW EBAY RULES TO THE LETTER. HE HAS TO SEND IT BACK AT HIS EXPENSE INITIALLY, AND THEN EBAY WILL ABITRATE IF THERE'S A PROBLEM FROM THERE AND YES, I AM SHOUTING, SORRY! IMO he's hoping you wil think it's al too much hassle and that, when he says he can get it repaired for £250, you'll agree and send him the cash. It's a common scam on ebay and has developed largely as the result of sellers not being able to leave negative feedback. I don't have time now to help further, but don't do anything until you've had a lot of advice from people on here. The same situation has come up many times here and elsewhere. As someone said above, don't let him dictate terms. Also read ALL the terms and conditions around buying and selling, they are comprehensive Edited March 9, 2011 by Beedster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Have you seen any pics yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yes, they look pretty nasty but the serial number is obscured by the flash so I need another of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Beedster has it right, DO NOT DO ANYTHING YET! Today should be spent evaluating the pictures i listed above which you will receive from the buyer. If he drags his feet then inform him that you cannot continue with the claim without them, and that means all of them including the packaging. Remember, you don't actually know the guitar is damaged. You haven't seen anything to suggest it is in anything other than the condition you sent it in. You need to process this in the correct manner. First thing you should do is get the pictures, then you should contact the courier for a full refund or a substantial partial refund which covers the repair and the loss in value of said guitar. Don't rush anything, this does seem slightly dodgy but the buyer may be telling the truth. I know if i bought a Gibson i'd request the headstock to be encased in 3ft of concrete before being posted, you know a guitar has a design fault when it has a "typical break"! Also, if i were you then i'd get in touch with eBay now and make it known that the buyer is requesting an immediate refund, also get their advice on what you should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1155355' date='Mar 9 2011, 02:15 PM']DO NOT DO THIS. FOLLOW EBAY RULES TO THE LETTER. HE HAS TO SEND IT BACK AT HIS EXPENSE INITIALLY, AND THEN EBAY WILL ABITRATE IF THERE'S A PROBLEM FROM THERE AND YES, I AM SHOUTING, SORRY! IMO he's hoping you wil think it's al too much hassle and that, when he says he can get it repaired for £250, you'll agree and send him the cash. It's a common scam on ebay and has developed largely as the result of sellers not being able to leave negative feedback. I don't have time now to help further, but don't do anything until you've had a lot of advice from people on here. The same situation has come up many times here and elsewhere. As someone said above, don't let him dictate terms. Also read ALL the terms and conditions around buying and selling, they are comprehensive[/quote] +1 This is standard procedure. Getting photographs of the packaging is very important. I work in a store and we receive hundreds of gibsons every year. They are sent in the case with no additional packaging other than a card carton with foam ends. We probably have about 0.5% of guitars arrive with a broken headstock where the carton has had a visible fall or knock. What I'm trying to say is make sure that theres no impact marks on the guitar which would suggest it was dropped by the buyer when out of the case. if it went while in the case it would be a clean break with the headstock veneer probably still intact as there was no pressure on the headstock due to slackened strings. good luck getting it sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 There was another post like this late last year/early this year, which mentioned that an overseas buyer had done the same thing, bought a guitar, then claimed it to be broken on receipt. The seller refunded the money, the buyer returned the guitar, and it turned out that what he returned was a copy, and as such then had an immaculate guitar (think it was a Les Paul) and all his money back, for the cost of (probably) a broken Sue Ryder. Be aware of this, there are scams everywhere, and the above is quite ingenious, until explained and thought through. Whatever you do, ensure all photos etc are of the actual guitar sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Once again guys, thanks. I'm now being told that if I send £200 it will cover the repair as they have apparently contacted their local guitar shop who has quoted that figure. This seems more concerning by the minute. Fortunately thanks to your advice I will be contacting ebay tonight and taking their full advice on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1155355' date='Mar 9 2011, 02:15 PM']IMO he's hoping you wil think it's al too much hassle and that, when he says he can get it repaired for £250, you'll agree and send him the cash. It's a common scam on ebay and has developed largely as the result of sellers not being able to leave negative feedback.[/quote] [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1155424' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:16 PM']Once again guys, thanks. I'm now being told that if I send £200 it will cover the repair as they have apparently contacted their local guitar shop who has quoted that figure.[/quote] My powers grow ever stronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 I have contacted Ebay directly asking for advice, he is threatening to open a case so I thought I should seek their opinion before this happens. Oh, Ive also asked where he got his repair quote and then I think a telephone call will be in order. Beedster, you are indeed very wise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1155443' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:33 PM']I have contacted Ebay directly asking for advice, he is threatening to open a case so I thought I should seek their opinion before this happens. Oh, Ive also asked where he got his repair quote and then I think a telephone call will be in order. Beedster, you are indeed very wise![/quote] I would do nothing by phone as you cannot verify it afterwards and you might make things worse by backing the guy into a corner. The repair quote is not the issue at this stage. Simply follow procedures, he has to provide evidence that it is broken and that he didn't do it, before you think about returns, repairs or similar. Despite the fact that ebay tend to support buyers over sellers, they are fully aware of this type of scam, which is very common with electrical equipment (in which the returned iPod is indeed not working because it is a different one etc). Be calm, be patient, use the force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1155443' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:33 PM']I have contacted Ebay directly asking for advice, he is threatening to open a case so I thought I should seek their opinion before this happens. Oh, Ive also asked where he got his repair quote and then I think a telephone call will be in order. Beedster, you are indeed very wise![/quote] Don't look at it as "threatening" to open a case, in most situations (like when the item is valuable) opening a case is the correct way to go. It's just a way of letting eBay know that there has been a problem with the item officially, not an accusation. I agree though, it sounds suspicious. The old "give me £XXX and i'll shut up" routine is pretty common. You need confirmation that the damaged guitar is the one you sent, i wouldn't expect someone to deliberately bork an expensive guitar just for £200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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