Stylon Pilson Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) It might be worth using a reverse image search engine like [url="http://tineye.com"]tineye[/url] to see if he possibly obtained the broken guitar photos from the internet. Doesn't help you if he's bought a cheap copy guitar and broken it himself, but it narrows down the possibilities at least. S.P. Edited March 9, 2011 by Stylon Pilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Check to see if there any unique grain marks etc. in pictures that you have of it concur with those he'd sent you? Once you clear up with certainty that it's a scam (or not) the better you with be able to cope with the proceedings. Don't let him know he's been rumble just converse with ebay and stand your ground about getting sent back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom1946 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Am I right in thinking that if you have no money in your payscam account they [b]can't[/b] take money out of your bank account directly? If they can invade your account I'm closing my paypal account today and stuff ebay. This smells like a scam, just follow all the excellent advice here, especially Mr Beedster's psychic powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Okay, so i've slept on it and here's my view - tom1946 - I've withdrawn any funds in the account and i've contacted ebay seeking clarification on the matter. I think the view I will put forward is this - When the guitar left my care it was very well packaged and in mint condition. In order to make a claim for damage through the courier it is required that a) the package is inspected upon delivery and signed for as 'damaged', and all packing should have been retained and not thrown away. It is not outwith the buyers abilities to make the claim directly to the courier and since the buyer is not able to prove that the damage actually occurred in transit I am really unable to assist further. Should the buyer wish to make a claim for damage I will be happy to assist with any information at my end. There is adequate insurance cover to fund the cost of repairing the neck on the basis of the quote provided and the buyer has an opportunity to seek this through claims procedures. I will hold off on this until ebay respond to me but I think this is a fair and reasonable solution. Basically, as the seller I met my responsibilities, however the buyer failed in theirs (i.e. ensuring condition of goods upon receipt, retaining packaging, etc) and on that basis I will help as much as possible but ultimately the buyer needs to take some responsibility as well. Seem okay???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Yep perfect. Have you managed to ascertain if the pics he sent you are genuine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 That seems reasonable. Although I'm not sure about this: [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1156282' date='Mar 10 2011, 09:45 AM']....It is not outwith the buyers abilities to make the claim directly to the courier ....[/quote] Is this correct? The last time I, as a recipient, tried complaining to a courier about a problem (the driver faked a signature and left the parcel in a public space without telling anyone ) they said that they could only accept claims from the sender, since it was only the sender they had a contract with. I'm clueless about the law; could someone more knowledgeable clarify this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='absolutpepper' post='1156282' date='Mar 10 2011, 09:45 AM']Okay, so i've slept on it and here's my view - tom1946 - I've withdrawn any funds in the account and i've contacted ebay seeking clarification on the matter. I think the view I will put forward is this - When the guitar left my care it was very well packaged and in mint condition. In order to make a claim for damage through the courier it is required that a) the package is inspected upon delivery and signed for as 'damaged', and all packing should have been retained and not thrown away. It is not outwith the buyers abilities to make the claim directly to the courier and since the buyer is not able to prove that the damage actually occurred in transit I am really unable to assist further. Should the buyer wish to make a claim for damage I will be happy to assist with any information at my end. There is adequate insurance cover to fund the cost of repairing the neck on the basis of the quote provided and the buyer has an opportunity to seek this through claims procedures. I will hold off on this until ebay respond to me but I think this is a fair and reasonable solution. Basically, as the seller I met my responsibilities, however the buyer failed in theirs (i.e. ensuring condition of goods upon receipt, retaining packaging, etc) and on that basis I will help as much as possible but ultimately the buyer needs to take some responsibility as well. Seem okay????[/quote] Good, well done. Note that unless the courier has stated that it is acceptable, it is highly unlikely that he can claim as the recipient. The contract with the courier is between you and them (unless of course he arranged and paid them directly for delivery). C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='mart' post='1156314' date='Mar 10 2011, 10:08 AM']That seems reasonable. Although I'm not sure about this: Is this correct? The last time I, as a recipient, tried complaining to a courier about a problem (the driver faked a signature and left the parcel in a public space without telling anyone ) they said that they could only accept claims from the sender, since it was only the sender they had a contract with. I'm clueless about the law; could someone more knowledgeable clarify this issue?[/quote] Beaten to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 No, not yet. Sure they look like my guitar...but you never can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutpepper Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'll look into the courier issue then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 If he has thrown away the packaging then I reckon he must be pulling a fast one. You just wouldn't think to do that if you had opened the case and seen that it was broken. You'd put it straight back into the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='wesfinn' post='1156342' date='Mar 10 2011, 10:32 AM']If he has thrown away the packaging then I reckon he must be pulling a fast one. You just wouldn't think to do that if you had opened the case and seen that it was broken. You'd put it straight back into the box.[/quote] If it is the same guitar then it's unlikely the buyer would deliberately break it just for £200 though. I wouldn't be happy with that amount as it would have to cover the cost of repair and compensate for the loss in the guitar's value. The buyer will have still spent a significant amount for a damaged guitar, not exactly the smartest conman! If it is the same guitar then the buyer will have to get it repaired and send a receipt from the luthier in order for the OP to make a claim (although this may vary among couriers), this ensures he's not trying to pull a fast one. If i were the OP i would contact the courier to let them know the problem sooner rather than later, also find out what you need to make a claim (photos, receipts etc.) as invariably it will be you who has to pursue it as you arranged for it and paid them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The potential problem I see here is that eBay have a tendency to side with the buyer, so the OP is going to have to be very careful. ALL of the above makes me suspicious that the buyer is simply out to make some money, I have a very good nose for a con (comes from being the victim of a few), and this situation smells. Conmen either back down at the first sign of trouble ("OK, I tried to get £200 but he's playing hardball so I'll forget it"), or they push and push out of sheer habit and, even if you win the case, will make you wish you'd lost (negative feedback, persistent aggressive emails etc). So, just be prepared. Have you checked his previous eBay transactions? Is there any sign that he might have had similar disputes with sellers previously, do goods consistently arrive at his house damaged, has he (more times than seems reasonable) left bad feedback for sellers with otherwise good feedback, does he buy and sell the same guitars within weeks of each other? Cynical aren't I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1156463' date='Mar 10 2011, 12:16 PM']Yes they can take money from your account. AND IIRC you can't shut a paypal account or remove accounts within so many days of it being used. Basically long enough so no one can put in a claim.[/quote] I did a deal with a well known (and well respected) music business guy a few years back, and he told me an absolute horror story about how he was scammed on ebay. An item he sold was 'damaged' in post, but the item that came back from the buyer was not the same item. Ebay didn't believe him though, and found for the buyer. He blocked the Paypal refund via his bank, so Paypal pursued him via solicitors to the point where he was advised to settle or face substantial legal fees to defend the case. He eventually had to write Paypal a very large cheque. And he couldn't even leave negative feedback for the buyer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1156472' date='Mar 10 2011, 12:25 PM']I did a deal with a well known (and well respected) music business guy a few years back, and he told me an absolute horror story about how he was scammed on ebay. An item he sold was 'damaged' in post, but the item that came back from the buyer was not the same item. Ebay didn't believe him though, and found for the buyer. He blocked the Paypal refund via his bank, so Paypal pursued him via solicitors to the point where he was advised to settle or face substantial legal fees to defend the case. He eventually had to write Paypal a very large cheque. And he couldn't even leave negative feedback for the buyer![/quote] That sucks ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='lemmywinks' post='1156391' date='Mar 10 2011, 11:08 AM']If it is the same guitar then it's unlikely the buyer would deliberately break it just for £200 though. I wouldn't be happy with that amount as it would have to cover the cost of repair and compensate for the loss in the guitar's value. The buyer will have still spent a significant amount for a damaged guitar, not exactly the smartest conman! If it is the same guitar then the buyer will have to get it repaired and send a receipt from the luthier in order for the OP to make a claim (although this may vary among couriers), this ensures he's not trying to pull a fast one. If i were the OP i would contact the courier to let them know the problem sooner rather than later, also find out what you need to make a claim (photos, receipts etc.) as invariably it will be you who has to pursue it as you arranged for it and paid them.[/quote] I didn't mean he;d break it on purpose. He could very easily have leant the guitar against the wall and accidently broken it himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='wesfinn' post='1156601' date='Mar 10 2011, 01:44 PM']I didn't mean he;d break it on purpose. He could very easily have leant the guitar against the wall and accidently broken it himself![/quote] Well it is a Gibson, maybe he sneezed and the headstock snapped off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='lemmywinks' post='1156650' date='Mar 10 2011, 02:17 PM']Well it is a Gibson, maybe he sneezed and the headstock snapped off? [/quote] or a fly landed on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellothere Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Seriously paypal can take money directly from your bank account in the event someone wants a refund? I use a bank account that only has around 100 pound in at any one time, unless I'm buying something specific, and I don't have an agreed overdrat. So if they took a refund of say 1500 pound for a bass, when the money was not in the account I'd have to pay huge bank charges aswell I imagine. It's lucky I don't sell anything on ebay but I'm still shocked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I have only ever bought 2 bass combos and 3 basses that I have had posted. Out of that, one combo and 2 basses got damaged (though only minor stuff - broken corner protectors, small dents, broken machine heads). I think there's some great stuff in this thread and the idea of taking photos during the packaging process is excellent. It's a tricky one regarding 'Spidey' senses - for the last bass I bought I specifically asked the seller on several occasions to please ensure that the bass was well packaged becouse of my previous experience and the bass was in mint nick before the parcel company got hold of it (incidently they are also completely useless at trying to resolve this). I wasn't asking for the packaging with the intention of scamming anyone just purely based on previous experience. Part of the problem is using terms like 'well packaged' as people have different opinions to what that means. I think as the buyer it is worth stating what your expectation is regarding how the bass is packaged. Personally, I would now be more inclined to drive to collect items rather than have them posted. Not always practical I know..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Jabba_the_gut' post='1160436' date='Mar 13 2011, 01:23 PM'].....Part of the problem is using terms like 'well packaged' as people have different opinions to what that means....[/quote] +1 I once had a bass shipped to me in a soft case with a black plastic bag sellotaped over it. Oddly enough one of the safest packaging jobs I've received came without a case at all.... It didn't even look like a bass. It's a pity more folk aren't prepared to do it like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='hellothere' post='1157134' date='Mar 10 2011, 08:20 PM']Seriously paypal can take money directly from your bank account in the event someone wants a refund? I use a bank account that only has around 100 pound in at any one time, unless I'm buying something specific, and I don't have an agreed overdrat. So if they took a refund of say 1500 pound for a bass, when the money was not in the account I'd have to pay huge bank charges aswell I imagine. It's lucky I don't sell anything on ebay but I'm still shocked...[/quote] Almost, Paypal will debit the money from your Paypal account, leaving you with a negative balance which they then ask you to restore by transferring funds into your Paypal account. If you don't restore it they will attempt to draw the money from the account / card linked to your account but obviously you will have been savvy enough to cancel the card & inform your bank to reject any request for money from Paypal. Once Paypal have exhausted that route they send their debt collectors after you. By that point you should have got the FSA ombudsman involved which tends to make Paypal sh*t bricks & back down sharpish. Oh & on the subject of hilarious packing - Once received a Wal Custom in an oversized case & just a label slapped on the outside - it didn't even require a signature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1160465' date='Mar 13 2011, 01:50 PM']+1 I once had a bass shipped to me in a soft case with a black plastic bag sellotaped over it. Oddly enough one of the safest packaging jobs I've received came without a case at all.... It didn't even look like a bass. It's a pity more folk aren't prepared to do it like this.[/quote] Absolutely agree - pack things as you'd hope to receive them I say. I too have had a bass shipped to me in nothing more than a soft case with a little bit (and I mean a little bit...) of bubble wrap in it. Regarding that packing job, I think even the courier company might guess it was a fragile item!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougie Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='hellothere' post='1157134' date='Mar 10 2011, 08:20 PM']Seriously paypal can take money directly from your bank account in the event someone wants a refund? I use a bank account that only has around 100 pound in at any one time, unless I'm buying something specific, and I don't have an agreed overdrat. So if they took a refund of say 1500 pound for a bass, when the money was not in the account I'd have to pay huge bank charges aswell I imagine. It's lucky I don't sell anything on ebay but I'm still shocked...[/quote] yup they can and will.as a new seller im in the catagory they can hold my dosh for 21 days etc....despite sending over 900 quid in over 30 deals and a score of 45 and 100% over just 2 months...i think this guy is tryin to shaft you btw.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1160465' date='Mar 13 2011, 01:50 PM']+1 I once had a bass shipped to me in a soft case with a black plastic bag sellotaped over it. Oddly enough one of the safest packaging jobs I've received came without a case at all.... It didn't even look like a bass. It's a pity more folk aren't prepared to do it like this.[/quote] I'm surprised the anti-terror squad didn't want a look at that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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