Fretless newbie

[rasher80]

Hello all,

I've been toying with having a go at fretless for ages now, I think it would increase my playing repertoire and sharpen up my ear (in theory, right?)

Anyway, it's since i got into Pino's earlier stuff with Paul Young and some Talk Talk that i've been thinking more and more about it - the only issue is that i'm a lefty - but i've seen some fairly cheap Warwick Rockbass Streamers that are at a price too good to pass up, even if they're not the best.

I may not even be able to do it, or hate it - hence why i'm more inclined to pick up something cheap and playable to start with. They aren't lined, but hey, i like a challenge

Anybody got any experience of these basses, or any tips or hints to help along the way?

Cheers

[Jerry_B]

In general I'd say give it a go! But... it's quite common to think when you first start that you can't get anything but a horrible noise out of a fretless. It's just a case of sticking with it and getting a feel for how to play and to get your ears used to things. After a while things will fall into place

Edited March 9, 2011 by Jerry_B

[Fat Rich]

Go for it, it's great fun! OK, maybe a bit daunting at first but it's all about practice.

I prefer unlined fretless, in theory you should be keeping in tune with your ears and not with your eyes. Comes in handy on a dark stage, unless you're having trouble hearing yourself too in which case you're in trouble.

You can start preparing for playing fretless by looking at where you're currently fingering the note in relation to the fret, if you can drop your fingers almost on top of the fret all the time then you'll have a head start.

Good luck!

[icastle]

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='1155446' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:34 PM']In general I'd say give it a go! But... it's quite common to think when you first start that you can't get anything but a horrible noise out of a fretless. It's just a case of sticking with it and getting a feel for how to play and to get your ears used to things. After a while things will fall into place [/quote]

+1

And don't worry too much about the lack of line markers.
When I bought my first fretless I severely limited my choices by refusing to consider anything without line markers.
I only used them for the first week or so.

[Jerry_B]

Yeah, I'm not keen on line markers. Also, some unlined fretless basses have the fret dots on top of the neck in different places - some on the fret, some in the middle (I prefer the latter).

[Bilbo]

If you have never played fretless before, it will probably take you about two days to get your playing close enough to functional. Don't make these fretless things out to be anything unusual. A zillion violin, viola, cello and double bass players can't all be geniuses. Fretmarkers are not taht useful really. Its a case of a little thought/application and you're away.

Never tried the Warwick you mention.

[Silent Fly]

Fretless bass is great!

If you plan to buy one, IMO there are two things that it is worth considering:

Comfort. With fretless, the left hand fingers must be in certain positions. This makes the bass more challenging to play. This is not only for the intonation itself but also because the left hand/arm has to work harder and more accurately than with a fretted bass. If the bass is not 100% comfortable, the left hand management can be even more difficult.

Lined vs plain. It is very much a matter of personal preference. Personally, I find easier playing a plain fretboard. I am not 100% sure why but I suspect it is because with the lines and dots of the lined fretboard my brain has to process more information and I end up relying more on my eyes than I should.

[yorick]

I've had an old Rockbass Streamer, the one with the precision style bridge and two soapbar pickups. If the one you've seen is the same, the neck is very slim, jazz-ish. They are quite heavy though, but comfortable to play. I had mine modded before I got it with an MEC active circuit, so couldn't tell what it sounded like before, but the active sound was great.... Good value as well.

Nige

[Paul S]

I had one for a while as a part of my steep learning curve/total immersion into bass playing. Probably the most useful thing I did, once I got used to the initial fretting bit, was take it along to band rehearsal and use it for everything. Not just play along at home to famous fretless tracks. Treat it like a normal bass, in other words. After a few tracks I almost forgot I was using a fretless and it seemed to come more naturally.

I decided, in haste, that I would never actually use one in the context of my two rock bands so sold it on - and regretted it enough to consider getting another one.

[Jerry_B]

Other good practice is to play along with tunes that don't feature a fretless, just to get used to treating it in your mind like a normal bass. Playing with a plectrum is also an option, of course.

[ead]

I was in your position a couple of years ago. I bought a cheap Yamaha RBX270 (lined - sorry guys) and have loved learning to play it - although as a violin player the concept of unlined fretless instruments is established.

For establishing muscle memory and listening/general practice purposes I found playing along to scales I had recorded on a fretted bass very useful.

[BassBus]

One thing I did when I started double bass was put pencil marks on the third, fifth and seventh positions. By the time they had disappeared muscle memory had taken over and haven't used them since.

One Jaco Pastorius used to practice on a fretted bass. To play a note without any buzzing on fretted your fingers have to be in the correct place just behind the fret. Your hands will develop muscle memory and just fall into place. Trust yourself and just go for it. No speed bumps = much more freedom of expression.

Edited March 9, 2011 by BassBus

[ras52]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1155469' date='Mar 9 2011, 03:43 PM']A zillion violin, viola, cello and double bass players can't all be geniuses.[/quote]
+1

Memories of beginner's violin lessons - things get better with[i] listening[/i] practise.

Fretless doesn't fit my current band, but I still rotate the fretless into my home practice schedule. If I can play it on fretless with my eyes closed, I know I've "got" it. Practising fretless will improve your playing overall, as you'll be listening more.

A very good ex-piano teacher of mine recommended learning to play everything blind - I'd say even more so on bass - who wants to be looking down all the time, whether at frets or lines?

[pietruszka]

Fretless is fantastic! I love mine, I took to it quicker that I thought. I found it helps to be able to play your fretted blind, improve your muscle memory on that then it shouldn't take too much adjusting. Hopefully!

Get one, you'll love it!


Dan.

[Blademan_98]

Fretless is great fun.

I have two now!

A four and a five string.

I practice on the fretted as mentioned above and that helps when starting out.

Mine are just cheap ones (one is lined the other unlined).

I don't even look at the lines! (and I am not a genius and have not been playing bass for long)

Go for it

[bh2]

Absolutely... go for it!

I play by ear... my ears are sore.

[iconic]

I got myself a VMJF (Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Fretless, sorry!) it's lined and I play it a lot....just been playing Mr Jackson's Shake Ya Body Down to the Ground with tapes for strings...

...I had to learn that the cheater lines are where the fingers need to be, rather than just behind the frets/lines on the my other basses....great fun and the only way to play Japan's Visions Of China!

go for it, but I wouldn't spend a fortune on one though, keeping with ears

ears = fretted
earlobes = fretless
....they are sort of like an earlobe, nice to have and you'd certainly notice if one went missing, but not as much as an ear....hope that makes sense!?!

[paul_5]

Absolutely go for it. Fretless is a beautiful sound, and (personally) more rewarding. My first fretless was a cheap (£70) 4 string that I defretted and then filled in the gaps. I've never looked back.

Top tip for starting off is to play songs which occasionally feature open strings - that way you've got a reference pitch to check the relative pitch of your fingered notes.

[ead]

Hey Dan, my mum was born in the Bay of Whitley!

Sorry, as you were.

Btw, my RBX270F cost a massive £90 (since upgraded pups, bridge and rewired from VBT to VVT)

[purpleblob]

Just to add my 2p worth.

I cannot comment on the specific bass you're looking at, but did once have a 6 string fretless Warwick (proline I think) and it had a really wonderful tone and was very playable. It was a defretted bass so obviously had lines and the dots on the side in the wrong place (i.e. not on where the fret would be). I then assumed I should stick with lined fretlesses when I got rid of it so bought a lined Sei, but more recently I decided to take a chance (as it were) on the unlined as they looks soooooooo nice and I figured if others can play then, I should be able to (eventually).

So what I would say to you is this - if I can play on an unlined (which I think I can) then so can you.

The only real problem I have with unlined is that they tend not to put dots on the first fret position so around first and second and up 13th 14th (in particular) I find it damned hard to keep my intonation spot on around those points and chords can be challenging wherever they're played, but I'm definite that if I spent more time playing the fretless then I'd not have any issues.

Now to even things up, the main problem with lined is that (well it's a problem for me) the dot markers are not on the lines (generally speaking) and in low light, unless you've got really bright lines they become more difficult to see and without the dots at the fret positions it can become challenging getting your intonation spot on.

They're damned useful for ear training as well, so even if you don't play them live or record etc. they're useful as a tool for practising with.

[rasher80]

Thanks very much for the replies everyone.

The comments have been very positive so i think i'm going to take the plunge and see how it goes.

I'm not the best bass player ever, but i think the fretless will give me the challenge i need to put in some serious practice and hopefully progress as a musician.

Cheers everyone!

[Jerry_B]

I wouldn't worry about not being 'the best bass player'. It's not at all complicated or something that requires amazing amounts of skill - practice is what gets the job done

[OliverBlackman]

unfortunately when i started looking at for my first fretless i had a go on several rockbass' and they all had the same major problem. The ebonised finsh on the fingerboard doesnt give a realistic fretless tone. So you wont ever get the "fretless tone" you would hear on a record without putting an ebony or decent rosewood board on there.

I was lucky and managed to get a fairly cheap German Warwick with an ebony board, so i recommend you try out a few fretless basses and once you know whats good look in the for sale section here.

+1 to everyone who's recommended fretless bass its great fun and great for your ears

[ead]

[quote name='rasher80' post='1156618' date='Mar 10 2011, 01:58 PM']I'm not the best bass player ever....[/quote]


I'm certainly not! Good luck with it, and please let us see what you get.

[dannybuoy]

Another Yamaha RBX270F owner here! It was my first bass and I still own it, I highly recommend it. Personally couldn't stand the plastic fingerboard on the Squier VM Jazz though.