Blademan_98 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'm in a bit of a quandry. I recorded a band the other night. I have just put the tracks onto the PC. Now I could do quite a lot of post processing to help..... or do I just tell them it was not good? I like all the band members and don't want to upset them. I could just say it didn't work out. What do you chaps think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 That's a tough one. What was wrong with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellothere Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 If it was their playing then tell them, better to hear it from a friend than get laughed at by someone they don't know. So long as it is put nicely, and they are reasnable, they should take heed and practice more. If you just don't like their style then keep it to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I’d just sit them down and go through the recording, track by track and discuss what you think can be improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 The singer was really off and the timing on around half the songs was 'questionable'. These guys are fairly seasoned players. I love the material, just their playing as a band was off. I recorded it and wished I hadn't. I have been asked for the result. I am stalling at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Just give them a copy and let them judge for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 That's tough man I feel for you! I'm always happy to give people feedback about their playing, but this sounds really bad and i wouldn't want to risk upsetting or offending them. Honesty is always the best policy though. I would probably take a deep breath, say the recording didnt quite work out, ask them to come round and take a listen, and see what they want you to do with the recordings. They'll probably prefer to hear it themselves than to just be told 'dude your show sucked that night'. Maybe even ask if they want you do do another night in future if you want, giving them a chance to tighten up. Who knows it might be really good for them and they'll end up very grateful Good luck mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 You could tell them that you weren't happy with the recording and then let them have the tape and see what they say about it. I don't see that you have to protect them from a bad performance ..I think you could be doing them a favour in the long run to let them hear how they may sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 I would normally just lay it onto a CD a post it to the band. I just happen to know these chaps and see them around a lot. Perhaps I will meet up with them and let them have the recording. (then run away) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I don't think you should feel responsible here. They screwed up not you. If the timing was bad and they're the seasoned players you say they are they should have known what the problems were at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I agree with everyone here. Tell them, let them hear the recordings and make them aware of what could be done better. Iv had a similar scenario with a good friend. I'm playing a close friends wedding and asked said friend to play kit on it. Now, I'v been playing with another drummer with pretty much the same material and the singer suggested that we use him on kit instead for that reason. I told the former drummer this and said that 'it's business'. It makes it easier for me to, especially as there'd only be one practice which he wasn't completely comfortable with. He understood as this is how things work. Separate the friend from work thing and its not so bad. I'd appreciate some one telling me I could have played better, its constructive criticism if anything else. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If it were me, I would present my opinion if asked, and wouldn't if not - especially if the guys themselves are 100% happy with the final recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1157492' date='Mar 11 2011, 12:03 AM']I don't think you should feel responsible here. They screwed up not you. If the timing was bad and they're the seasoned players you say they are they should have known what the problems were at the time.[/quote] They should have, I totally agree. I couldn't quite believe my ears when they were playing some of the stuff. No one said 'that wasn't any good, let's do it again' I have decided that after this I am not going to record for friends again. Just stick to my own stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1157463' date='Mar 10 2011, 11:45 PM']Just give them a copy and let them judge for themselves.[/quote] You can't polish a turd, so don't even try to. Let them have a copy, and judge for themselves. Unless you were being asked to produce or mix the tracks, I think you've fulfilled all your obligations. Just drop your mate a line to express some of your thoughts and let them hear for themselves; perhaps suggest some next steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='Gust0o' post='1157518' date='Mar 11 2011, 12:30 AM']You can't polish a turd, so don't even try to. Let them have a copy, and judge for themselves. Unless you were being asked to produce or mix the tracks, I think you've fulfilled all your obligations. Just drop your mate a line to express some of your thoughts and let them hear for themselves; perhaps suggest some next steps.[/quote] You are right. Consensus of opinion seems to be just hand it over. Cheers for all the input. Perhaps I can get some sleep now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Often things do sound worse recorded than live, and it may be that mostly they do sound OK live. They need to hear sooner or later, and if they're seasoned as you say then they should be able to recognise they're a bit off. No amount of careful adjustment of EQ will fix bad timing or an off key singer. Don't let it put you off working with friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='1157521' date='Mar 11 2011, 12:37 AM']Often things do sound worse recorded than live, and it may be that mostly they do sound OK live. They need to hear sooner or later, and if they're seasoned as you say then they should be able to recognise they're a bit off. No amount of careful adjustment of EQ will fix bad timing or an off key singer. Don't let it put you off working with friends.[/quote] hmmm I think this is clutching at straws. The recording is what they sound like..even if they don't like the results. I would certainly put more store in a cold light of play recording than my 'impressions' of the gig. Maybe a few sounds would be affected but the playing is as is...IMV. I'd hand it over and say the recording could be better and wouldn't embellish unless asked. IME...musicians are the most critical of themselves..I know I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1157541' date='Mar 11 2011, 01:13 AM']IME...musicians are the most critical of themselves..I know I am.[/quote] This is a good point! The first time I heard an isolated bass track of mine I cringed so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='chrismuzz' post='1157545' date='Mar 11 2011, 01:31 AM']This is a good point! The first time I heard an isolated bass track of mine I cringed so much[/quote] I still do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 My band did some home recording a few months ago. Our guitarist is quite good at this stuff so he took the recordings away to do the mixing. Two days later he gave me his first rough mix of five of the tracks but one, where I sing lead vocal while playing a walking bassline, he suggested I listen to so I could tell him how I wanted him to mix it for me. His point, of course, was that my playing was cr*p and as soon as I listened to the track it was obviously cr*p. No problem, and no harm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonzoooroo Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If the playing's poor, they need to know so they can sort it. Time pressures/stresses/unfamiliarity etc when recording can mean that players often mess up stuff they can play live easily. If the sound was off, that's your responsibility, but the musicianship's theirs. I'd let them hear it after you've put in the least work you can (properly rough/basic mix) If they want you to "Do the best you can with it" after hearing what it's like now, then that's what you should do, but otherwise, I'd organise another recording session! The last recording we did was 5 tracks in 1 evening (after work) in the upstairs room of a local pub. By the time the gear was all set up, we'd all had enough (tiredness - not ale), so the playing wasn't perfect... We just quickly listened back, and re-did any tracks (all live takes) that were ropey. The technical sound was hard work due to all the spill in the mics, but we ended up with well enough played takes for the purpose. As above - "no problem, and no harm done" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) A few questions to clear up some stuff not apparent from the original post: 1. Have you charged money for doing this recording? 2. Are all the problems with the recording all down to the playing/performances of the musicians and none are with the technical aspects of the recording? If it's simply that the musicians didn't play particularly well, did you not notice at the time of making the recording? I've been doing home recording myself since the mid-70s, but these days I prefer to go into a studio for two main reasons (other than to have a good acoustic space to record drums properly). Firstly I've found that I play much better if all I have to do is concentrate on the playing. Secondly I expect the person recording me to say when my performance isn't up to scratch so I can go back and do another take until it is. I don't know the full story behind your recording session because I wasn't there, but as a musician I would expect the person recording me to let me know if my playing wasn't as good as it could be, so I could do something about it at the time. Fixing a couple of timing errors after the recording is to be expected, but it shouldn't be more than a couple, otherwise you're always better off going for another take. As for tuning your always better getting it right at the moment of recording rather than trying to fix it in the mix. Edited March 11, 2011 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I record for friends all the time. I always make it clear that I might say something that might piss them off, but to not take anything personally. I would have told them to re-do it on the night!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 [quote name='BigRedX' post='1157649' date='Mar 11 2011, 08:48 AM']A few questions to clear up some stuff not apparent from the original post: 1. Have you charged money for doing this recording? 2. Are all the problems with the recording all down to the playing/performances of the musicians and none are with the technical aspects of the recording? If it's simply that the musicians didn't play particularly well, did you not notice at the time of making the recording? I've been doing home recording myself since the mid-70s, but these days I prefer to go into a studio for two main reasons (other than to have a good acoustic space to record drums properly). Firstly I've found that I play much better if all I have to do is concentrate on the playing. Secondly I expect the person recording me to say when my performance isn't up to scratch so I can go back and do another take until it is. I don't know the full story behind your recording session because I wasn't there, but as a musician I would expect the person recording me to let me know if my playing wasn't as good as it could be, so I could do something about it at the time. Fixing a couple of timing errors after the recording is to be expected, but it shouldn't be more than a couple, otherwise you're always better off going for another take. As for tuning your always better getting it right at the moment of recording rather than trying to fix it in the mix.[/quote] Some good points. I think I'd read it as sitting in on a rehearsal with his 4-track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 When you say "you recorded a band the other night" its important to understnad what that means. Did you take a long a decent 2 track recording machine and capture their live sound warts and all? Did you take a long a multitrack mahine and capture them playing as a band so that you could mix it later and make a great sounding demo for them? Were you considered responsible for any more than the technical recording? In other words was the idea just that you turn up and 'run the board' during tracvking, or were you supposed to be telling them if it was a good take? You see if you are in some way helping produce this then to a certina extent you should have been trying to guide them where they played a ropey take during tracking IMO. If on the other hand you were just there to capture the noise they made then the band/band leader was making that call. Either way though you need to get the mix to them asap do all the stuff you wuold do to make it sound clear and well produced, and expose the truth about their playing. Then they will hear for themselves and if they are any good they will ask questions about their performance, not your recording ability.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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