Open mindedness

[Rich]

For someone who complains about a lack of open-minded towards your particular instrument of choice, you display a remarkable lack of it towards anything other than that which you feel to be cutting-edge or innovative. I can almost guarantee you that in 20 years time there will still be far more call for 4/5 string groove-merchants than there will for ERB-wielding 'innovators'. Both will continue to co-exist, and this is a good thing. I'm not going to slag you off for looking up the side road and thinking "I wonder where that goes?"... more power to your elbow, good luck and I'll be interested to hear where you end up. Me, I am quite happy with my big wide A-road thank you very much, and I'd appreciate it if you could show me (and all the others like me) the same courtesy and not constantly sneer at us. And yes, you do.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Musky' post='132489' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:55 AM']I think there's a lot to be said for your argument ARGH, though I think it's rather in the nature of instrument rather than simple conservatism. There's only so much you can do with a stringed instrument, no matter how many strings you add to it, and essentially all those things have been done. We can add strings, detune, add effects or try new ways of attacking the strings, but fundamentally we're stuck with the same instrument. A lot of experimentation with bass just leads to replication of sounds available guitarists of keyboards. Nothing wrong with that of course - it keeps us as bassists in business - but it's nothing really new. And ultimately someone has to hold down the bottom end - it might be a keyboard player or a second (or third!) bassist, but it's likely to be us.1

Of course, nothing really new in rock has happened for quite some time (I wouldn't even call Grunge new). Pop has (long ago) eaten itself. But all the really new sounds are coming from the dance scene - which of course doesn't really use bass guitars. I think we ought to recognise that we're working within what is now quite an old cultural form, and one that's not likely to be the dominant one forever. Given the way instrumentation changes with genuinely new forms of music (or is that the other way round?) I don't think we need fret (ouch) too much progression of technique. Like the piano, the bass is what it is.2[/quote]

1,The weight of the world is Bass upon our shoulders.

2,This worries me,because,as Ive written,Im seeing the changes....its not on the horizon..its in the dark horrid underbelly,that wallows beneath...and that always bursts through..takes time.


But Hey we shall all be playing 'Mustang Sally'...for at least the next week or two...

[ARGH]

[quote name='Rich' post='132511' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:16 PM']For someone who complains about a lack of open-minded towards your particular instrument of choice, you display a remarkable lack of it towards anything other than that which you feel to be cutting-edge or innovative. I can almost guarantee you that in 20 years time there will still be far more call for 4/5 string groove-merchants than there will for ERB-wielding 'innovators'. Both will continue to co-exist, and this is a good thing. I'm not going to slag you off for looking up the side road and thinking "I wonder where that goes?"... more power to your elbow, good luck and I'll be interested to hear where you end up. Me, I am quite happy with my big wide A-road thank you very much, and I'd appreciate it if you could show me (and all the others like me) the same courtesy and not constantly sneer at us. And yes, you do.[/quote]

To much Coffee Rich,its not good for you.

20 years yes,you will still be needing 5 strings.....

[Paul_C]

[quote name='bassninja' post='132487' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:55 AM']Who was it who said " There's only two types of music: stuff I like and stuff I don't..."[/quote]


That was me !

.. and it's still true

If the world of recorded music is moving into a multi-tasking system (what do drummers think of all the drum software out there, that must be undermining them more than bass players ?), then those that want to keep themselves at the "cutting edge" have to consider following suit, and exploring what else can be done creatively with any instrument that comes to hand, not restricting themselves to what they can do with only one.

Bass players of all flavours will continue to exist, some will be more creative than others, some will be converted guitarists who couldn't get a gig, some will find ways to be "different" and will stand or fall depending on how popular their view of how to play bass proves to be.

No one will be right or wrong, and most of the world won't give a damn either way, especially if the singer is cute.



P.

[ARGH]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='132508' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:14 PM']Any changes in technique and technology since the '80s relating to the use of the bass guitar in the vast majority of of music have been marginal at best. But as with all subjective the things, the 'truth' depends on your perspective and I doubt your truth will ever be anywhere near mine.

But talking about all this is rather pointless - I want to hear your examples of what you're doing differently and am more than happy to share examples of what I'm doing differently.

Alex[/quote]

Me,Im just playing....

[kdphysio]

[quote name='ARGH' post='132513' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:19 PM'].....The weight of the world is Bass upon our shoulders............This worries me,because,as Ive written,Im seeing the changes....its not on the horizon..its in the dark horrid underbelly,that wallows beneath...and that always bursts through..takes time.[/quote]


christ! take a prozac or something, you're starting to depress us all. we'll be slitting our wrists soon!!

music is supposed to be enjoyable & (god forbid!) fun (?) !!!

Edited February 2, 2008 by kdphysio

[ARGH]

[quote name='kdphysio' post='132519' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:26 PM']christ! take a prozac or something, you're starting to depress us all. we'll be slitting our wrists soon!!

music is supposed to be enjoyable & (god forbid!) fun (?) !!![/quote]

Well winter gets me down....

[thedontcarebear]

What's the obsession with being different and moving things forward?

Do what you want to do, and let others do what they want to do.

[ped]

[quote name='ARGH' post='132518' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:22 PM']Me,Im just playing....[/quote]

Yes I wish you would stick to playing the thing rather than constantly loving yourself for it!

[ARGH]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='132521' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:28 PM']What's the obsession with being different and moving things forward?

Do what you want to do, and let others do what they want to do.[/quote]

Given you are an Ipswich fan,the 1st line you write is obvious.(Goodluck against Wednesday)

Because there have been a lot of threads along the lines saying "Whos the heros" recently.

Stagnation is a deathknell,many are happy to play pubs and clubs doing covers..just PLAYING Bass..big up the massive,good for them...but thats static,its function,its good,but its function...Bloody good training to see what could be bettered,but Ive never been satisfied,I dont understand how anyone can accept that...static,but hey I get paid like you.

individual thinking and playing and thought is the key...

Stanley Clarke I remember saying "Some Kid..the Synapses just fire quicker"....so where are the kids?If There isnt anything to get THIS generation fired up...and if its all been said...what is there to do....maybe my road (as Rich said) is one of many....or perhaps the A road needs resurfacing.


As for you 2nd line..I do,I do....but it isnt preached by all is it? Should I care...well I started this thread,what does that say?


I Guess I do.

[ARGH]

[quote name='ped' post='132524' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:32 PM']Yes I wish you would stick to playing the thing rather than constantly loving yourself for it![/quote]

I love playing,But I just worry about where,in Bassplaying terms..with the instument as it is now, is taking us as things are and where they are going.

You seem to be taking this personally,I take things personally too..My Bassplaying is questionable..my instrument choice isnt.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='132516' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:21 PM']That was me !

.. and it's still true

If the world of recorded music is moving into a multi-tasking system (what do drummers think of all the drum software out there, that must be undermining them more than bass players ?), then those that want to keep themselves at the "cutting edge" have to consider following suit, and exploring what else can be done creatively with any instrument that comes to hand, not restricting themselves to what they can do with only one.

Bass players of all flavours will continue to exist, some will be more creative than others, some will be converted guitarists who couldn't get a gig, some will find ways to be "different" and will stand or fall depending on how popular their view of how to play bass proves to be.

No one will be right or wrong, and most of the world won't give a damn either way, especially if the singer is cute.



P.[/quote]


+1 (only with more strings)

[queenofthedepths]

[quote name='ARGH' post='132418' date='Feb 2 2008, 09:44 AM']compared to a limited range Bass[/quote]
Don't they all have a limited range?
ERBs are of course a wonderful advancement in bass technology and I expect in a few years' time we'll be seeing more and more of them (there are already plenty of mainstream bassists playing 6ers and LOADS with 5ers - personally I predict ERBs to become more commonplace, one string at a time), but that's not to say those with less strings are gonna disappear... the live scene is far from dying out and the bass guitar is already a historical instrument - if the 4-string Fender P ever disappears, the ERB's days are probably numbered too
As for pushing forward with music, it's definitely a nice idea, but there's plenty of room for new, innovative sounds alongside classic styles that'll never change

[chris_b]

Bass playing, bass instruments, bass amps, bass speakers, bass techniques and bass attitudes have evolved dramatically in each of the last 5 decades. Where have you been?

[Bassassin]

Seems like you're on a crusade. This is fine - but you can't expect everyone else to feel the same as you or share the same (bass) world view.

I play a 4-string fretted bass, I have no antipathy towards instruments with more strings or fewer frets, they just have no particular use in my chosen field of musical expression. When I gig, I am focussed upon performing the bass parts to the songs to the best of my ability, I don't improvise (parts do evolve, but that's different) as there is no scope for it in the music, and I'm sh!t at it.

I am not particularly interested in challenging the "rules" of bass playing (whatever they might be) for the sake of it, or even for the sake of other bassists - I'm not an innovative player, and never will be. Maybe at the age of 17 or so I thought I might redefine the instrument, but I've long since realised that I'll never be as good or original as my early influences, never mind wipe the floor with them with my majestic, mould-shattering mad skillz.

However, when I play or record with my band, I'm playing the bass to a piece of music I've composed, arranged & demo'd - and so are the guitarist & drummer in my band. (The singer does her own thing but that's as it should be ). I'm a musician whose primary instrument is the bass guitar (four strings, with frets, sometimes played with a pick), my challenge - to myself - is to continue to write (in the loosest sense, I have no formal musical education) music which pushes me as a composer & performer, isn't (too) derivative or plagiaristic, doesn't repeat what I've done before, and continues to motivate me to want to do something better.

And the rules of bass playing? I thought there were two:

Rule One: There are no rules.
Rule Two: There is no Rule Two.

Jon.

[silverfoxnik]

It's good to evolve as a musician, set higher goals to improve and develop on the instrument you love. in this case a bass. Whether it's a bass with 4 strings, 5 strings or 10 strings, it's still a bass!

But in the end, people want music that makes them feel something - happy, sad, uplifted, moved to tears etc.. Whatever and however that is done doesn't matter to the vast majority of people who enjoy music.. They just want the emotions and the messages that music can bring to their lives..

IMHO, it's only us bass 'musos' who'd ever consider the question raised in this thread and in the great big scheme of things, I'm with the ordinary punter;

Doesn't matter how it works, so long as it does..

[birdy]

[quote name='ARGH' post='132418' date='Feb 2 2008, 09:44 AM']Im used to idiots,ye Gods there are enough of them of this forum,but Im always coming across such conservatism in the Bass community to change and difference,its not just the anti ERB stance......thats to be accepted,it looks plain freaky compared to a limited range Bass,but nothing original or different is being done on a 4 string instrument unless you alternate tune in a savage fashion (ala Manring),and even then people cant get to grips at the possibility,or even allow the idea, of performing upon the instrument as a solo or 'solo-able' point of expression.

Expression is easily suppressed by many factors,tradition,fear of ridicule,and of course our old friend ignorance.

Seeing as nothing new,or at least ear catching,is being made,this is bad....I see this a VERY bad. There is only so long we can go on harking back at the old heros,its time to accept that traditions..not standards,but traditions...have to ...cease....even die out peacefully...all the arguements must end..the bar must be raised.

It will take an awesome effort,changing the rule of guard....we are 'Guitarists' after all,and we have the abilities and freedom of expression,break free from the herd mentality,and when the spotlight shines on us...try to make the extra effort at your next gig,every little step....every little step.[/quote]

I don't see that anyone is stopping you do whatever you want with your instrument. I can't see how your expression is being supressed, you have your instrument and you can make whatever music you like. Whether people like it or not is their choice. I think that you are labelling things to much. It should be all about the overall sound of whatevers being played whether by a 4 string bass in conjunction with drums and guitar, or an orchestra or an ERB. The role of each music maker is to play whats 'best' for the overall piece at the time. Of course the 'best' is subjective.

Look at U2 as an example. Many people like them and there songwriting. I am sure Adam Clayton could play more technically challenging lines but if he started double thumping or tapping he would ruin the overall picture.

Its about turning down your ego a little to fit in with the creative whole in my opinion.

I am sure you may disagree :-)

Steve

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='ARGH' post='132418' date='Feb 2 2008, 09:44 AM']Im used to idiots,ye Gods there are enough of them of this forum[/quote]

Hmm. Not a great start...

Anyway, for me it's all about whether the music is good, and whether it moves me and the audience.

It's got bugger all to do with pushing the envelope, 20-string basses and slappy-tapping. If you're into that, cool.

[ARGH]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='132626' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:04 PM']Hmm. Not a great start...

Anyway, for me it's all about whether the music is good, and whether it moves me and the audience.

It's got bugger all to do with pushing the envelope, 20-string basses and slappy-tapping. If you're into that, cool.[/quote]
You've missed the point,it is and Im not.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='ARGH' post='132631' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:11 PM']You've missed the point,it is and Im not.[/quote]

Okay... I'm a bit fick. Explain your point in idiot's language.

[Doddy]

So, i'm new here and do't want to come across as a prat,but I must have my two pence worth.
Pushing the boundaries of bass playing has nothing to do with the number of strings on your instrument. If a player is unimaginative on a 4 string,he/she will be just as unimaginative on a 6,7or 9 string.
There is still an unlimited number of things to be done on the 4 string-all it takes is for people to explore some of these possibilities.

[Musky]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='132632' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:14 PM']Okay... I'm a bit fick. Explain your point in idiot's language.[/quote]

I think (and forgive me if I'm wrong, ARGH) it's not so much an extolling of ERBs or widdlesome technique, more that he's drawing comparisons with developments in bass playing and developments in musical styles. In the way that slap has defined so much modern funk and detuning is so prevalent in metal.

[MythSte]

Oh for goodness sake, cant you go and cure cancer or something.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Musky' post='132658' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:49 PM']I think (and forgive me if I'm wrong, ARGH) it's not so much an extolling of ERBs or widdlesome technique, more that he's drawing comparisons with developments in bass playing and developments in musical styles. In the way that slap has defined so much modern funk and detuning is so prevalent in metal.[/quote]

First prize...

Its about the standard to exist in the future....

[ARGH]

[quote name='ste_m3' post='132665' date='Feb 2 2008, 05:08 PM']Oh for goodness sake, cant you go and cure cancer or something.[/quote]

What key is it in?