God I hate ........ slap bass

[JellyKnees]

Yup, I'd agree with a lot of the posts on here in that it's all about context and execution. It's just a technique, like any other. It only becomes annoying when overdone, or used as a form of musical masturbation.

For example, I think there's a huge difference between the way Mark King and Marcus Miller play slap. Marcus Miller has a real lightness of touch and is so in the groove - he is great at slapping and plucking [i]around[/i] the drums whilst leaving lots of holes to let the music to[i] breathe[/i].

Mark King just sounds like an exciteable child with an annoying new toy to me...

And the example that someone mentioned of Chuck Rainey's bass on Peg is a good one. Again, some choice playing that gives a nice contrast between the verse and chorus.

I use a little bit of slap (and occasionally some tickle) in maybe 4 or 5 of our 20 odd songs. It's a useful rhythmic technique, but its a bit like a particularly strong herb (no, not that kind), say sage or tarragon. Don't overuse it, or you will ruin the dish!

[Dood]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1159468' date='Mar 12 2011, 04:21 PM']Just back from London bass show at Olympia. Say no more[/quote]

Hey Clarky! Great to meet you at last! Totally agree - Even at BassDay, I tried to demonstrate the more subtle tones of Shuker basses to passers-by - but I couldn't bloody hear anything because of all the shed building coming from a stand opposite (and to the right a bit) - My mate Darryll was demo'ing on the stand directly opposite to me and we just ended up pulling faces at each other everytime Mr JackHammer started off in his one man cruisade to rid bass players of their hearing. I have to say, not that I was every much of a slapper anyway, these shows are really putting me off the technique. Seems to be a lazy excuse for talent, when it is done badly.

[cetera]

[quote name='BassNovice' date='Mar 14 2011, 07:04 AM']Seems to me the people who hate slap are the ones who can't do it....much like the guy who couldn't get the chick so calls her names[/quote]

Er.... no....

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1161402' date='Mar 14 2011, 09:18 AM']I feel a lot of slappers are like those chavs in their Saxos banging out D 'n B at high volumes, they think it's impressive and everybody wants to hear it but most people think they are dicks.[/quote]

^This...

Edited March 14, 2011 by cetera

[skej21]

[quote name='dood' post='1161483' date='Mar 14 2011, 10:25 AM']Seems to be a lazy excuse for talent, when it is done badly.[/quote]

Totally agree.

The percussive nature of slap bass just lends itself perfectly to lazy players.

I'm not saying every player who uses slap is lazy, before the pack attacks...

What I mean is that because of the percentage of slap that is made up of mutes and percussive sounds, it's really easy for lazy/average players to cover up the fact that they have very little knowledge of harmony, melody and notes on the neck. Mainly because you don't have to think about implied harmony or supporting the melody in fills/bass lines, you just replicate a machine gun going off for two minutes and hope that there's at least one other bass player in the room who might appreciate it for a couple of seconds before they get bored or think "my slap playing is better"....

[MB1]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1161328' date='Mar 14 2011, 07:52 AM']I often get a relieved look in shop when I'm trying out basses and I ask 'Have you got a pick I can borrow?'[/quote]

MB1.
"A Pick?
That bass your pictured with Wayne? Surely you should have asked for a shovel!"

[Ou7shined]

I hate cacophony of any sort. I'm quite glad I don't go to any of these bigger bass days then.

I've been to every Moffat bash and all you hear throughout the day is sweet riffs (I'd say funk and blues was predominant) and maybe a combined 2 minutes of slap the entire day (it's a different story the night before when we all get pissed up and get our showy-off riffs out of our systems ). The secret seems to be having a limited number of attendees, all of whom have certain respect for each others audible space. You find that small groups of 4 or 5 players go about together in different areas all auditioning bits of kit at the same time.
Also at Moffat for blowing off steam you have a single stage/auditorium where one bass player at a time (sometimes 2) gets up and jams with the band (amp and cab comparisons and the "guest speaker" are held here too) and there is a separate area where you can audition basses either with the provided headphones amps or through top of the range mini-combos.

A comment earlier in an almost jumping on the band waggon way stated that you "can't tell anything from slapping a bass".
I'm no great slap player but every time I pick up a new (to me) bass after I've run through some standard riffs I give it a wee slap and pop to help gauge it's responsiveness, hard tone, suitability as an all rounder and overall sustain/viscosity and also to feel the action just after the neck - it's just part of my 47 point bass test. I'm sure a proper slapper would be able to tell more.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='MB1' post='1161516' date='Mar 14 2011, 10:48 AM']MB1.
"A Pick?
That bass your pictured with Wayne? Surely you should have asked for a shovel!" [/quote]
Fantastic.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1161548' date='Mar 14 2011, 11:17 AM']I hate cacophony of any sort. I'm quite glad I don't go to any of these bigger bass days then.

I've been to every Moffat bash and all you hear throughout the day is sweet riffs (I'd say funk and blues was predominant) and maybe a combined 2 minutes of slap the entire day (it's a different story the night before when we all get pissed up and get our showy-off riffs out of our systems ). The secret seems to be having a limited number of attendees, all of whom have certain respect for each others audible space. You find that small groups of 4 or 5 players go about together in different areas all auditioning bits of kit at the same time.
Also at Moffat for blowing off steam you have a single stage/auditorium where one bass player at a time (sometimes 2) gets up and jams with the band (amp and cab comparisons and the "guest speaker" are held here too) and there is a separate area where you can audition basses either with the provided headphones amps or through top of the range mini-combos.

A comment earlier in an almost jumping on the band waggon way stated that you "can't tell anything from slapping a bass".
I'm no great slap player but every time I pick up a new (to me) bass after I've run through some standard riffs I give it a wee slap and pop to help gauge it's responsiveness, hard tone, suitability as an all rounder and overall sustain/viscosity and also to feel the action just after the neck - it's just part of my 47 point bass test. I'm sure a proper slapper would be able to tell more.[/quote]

I've only been to the Moffat bass bash and agree. Don't recall hearing slap anytime during my visit even in the test area. Just good traditional bass playing.

I would agree with your 47 point bass test although mines is only 2 or 3

It does provide some degree of overall suitability of a bass if trying various different styles / techniques.

Cheers
Dave


PS Love the cat avator

Edited March 14, 2011 by dmccombe7

[purpleblob]

Wow, what a load of rubbish being spouted in this thread about slap playing

[Conan]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1161534' date='Mar 14 2011, 11:06 AM']I think this narrows down the right Vs wrong

[/quote]

I love slap, and I think this guy is awesome... but after about 90 seconds I was wishing he would play some fingerstyle or use a pick!

That's the whole point of slap to me - It's great for an effect or to simply give a different style or sound. But used all the time it becomes very wearing and fatiguing on the ears. Well, mine anyway!

[Doddy]

[quote name='JellyKnees' post='1161476' date='Mar 14 2011, 10:21 AM']For example, I think there's a huge difference between the way Mark King and Marcus Miller play slap. Marcus Miller has a real lightness of touch and is so in the groove - he is great at slapping and plucking [i]around[/i] the drums whilst leaving lots of holes to let the music to[i] breathe[/i].[/quote]

While I agree with what you say about Marcus' groove,his touch isn't light. It's seems lighter now than it was a few years ago though. He really hits the strings hard hard. If you've ever stood in front of his amp you can feel every slap.Read what his tech said in an old issue of BP....he mentions about how hard he plays.

[Conan]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1161099' date='Mar 13 2011, 09:46 PM']When I test drive a new car I put the wipers on fast, headlights main beam, stereo on max volume, 7500 rpm and dump the clutch. It's the only way to get a feel for what it can do.[/quote]

Brilliant! Don't forget the foglights though!!

[Clarky]

Here's the Rotosound slapper extraordinaire, featured in an earlier BC thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15986&hl=Clutterbuck"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...;hl=Clutterbuck[/url]

The guy obviously has amazing technical ability but ....

[cetera]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1161930' date='Mar 14 2011, 03:56 PM']Here's the Rotosound slapper extraordinaire, featured in an earlier BC thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15986&hl=Clutterbuck"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...;hl=Clutterbuck[/url]

The guy obviously has amazing technical ability but ....[/quote]

IMHO most of that just sounded like random percussive clicks with an occasional unconnected note chucked in.... yuk....

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='cetera' post='1161970' date='Mar 14 2011, 04:25 PM']IMHO most of that just sounded like random percussive clicks with an occasional unconnected note chucked in.... yuk....[/quote]


Ever heard of Korn?

[Clarky]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1161971' date='Mar 14 2011, 04:26 PM']Ever heard of Korn?[/quote]
Imagine Fieldy playing for hours on end at ear-splitting volume. You wouldn't be far off an approximation of the Bass Show (at least on the Saturday)

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1161976' date='Mar 14 2011, 04:29 PM']Imagine Fieldy playing for hours on end at ear-splitting volume. You wouldn't be far off an approximation of the Bass Show (at least on the Saturday)[/quote]


I was going to go then it dawned on me that it'd cost me £60 for a slap fest and there is brothel near here that is much cheaper.

[Clarky]

The pro slap community (I am not anti-slap I hasten to add) will find it hard to describe that in the same terms as Freddie Washington or Steely Dan's peg, and might just see where I was coming from in the OP!

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1161930' date='Mar 14 2011, 03:56 PM']Here's the Rotosound slapper extraordinaire, featured in an earlier BC thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15986&hl=Clutterbuck"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...;hl=Clutterbuck[/url]

The guy obviously has amazing technical ability but ....[/quote]
I think he forgot he had a left hand around 4:45 (then totally spazzed out when he remembered).

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1161980' date='Mar 14 2011, 04:32 PM']The pro slap community (I am not anti-slap I hasten to add) will find it hard to describe that in the same terms as Freddie Washington or Steely Dan's peg, and might just see where I was coming from in the OP![/quote]

I really can't see the point of that fast slap style in isolation - the whole thing with slap for me is about creating rhythmic/harmonic counterpoint, either against the drums, other instruments or within the line itself. You can't do that solo with just 16th and 32nd ghost notes and no tune pinning it down. For me, this is more like how it's done, not particularly complex, just funky as and listen to how the riff bounces between the clavi, bass and hammond - it's like a funk tumble-dryer:

Edited March 14, 2011 by LawrenceH

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1161930' date='Mar 14 2011, 03:56 PM']Here's the Rotosound slapper extraordinaire, featured in an earlier BC thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15986&hl=Clutterbuck"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...;hl=Clutterbuck[/url]

The guy obviously has amazing technical ability but ....[/quote]

That's the pillock I mentioned in another post.

He was sat right behind the GK stand with the same bass and amp for two days straight playing that %$@# at full blast. The only time he stopped was when he went over the other side of the path (about 2 meters away) to do the same thing on another stall.

He didn't seem to have any sense of how much he was pissing people off. Sure, he had a few people watching him as they passed by, does that mean the rest of us want him doing that for hours at a time and playing over any potential customers that want to try out gear? Whenever the quiet period ended, he was always one of the first people to crank his amp (before other people had even started) and start churning out that noise at full blast.

Grr, the guy really pissed me off haha. He was on an ego trip for 2 days without a care for anyone else.

[lojo]

Without taking anything away from the skill of some of these slappers, to me mostly its just a load of noise and does nothing for the soul

I love a funky bass, and really love the odd popped note in the right place that leaves you smiling, but too much is too much

Its like the football player who does tricks and runs around in circles with flashy dummies, very skillful, but it doesn't have the beauty of a perfectly weighted simple through ball or cross field pass

[risingson]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1162058' date='Mar 14 2011, 05:35 PM']That's the pillock I mentioned in another post.

He was sat right behind the GK stand with the same bass and amp for two days straight playing that %$@# at full blast. The only time he stopped was when he went over the other side of the path (about 2 meters away) to do the same thing on another stall.

He didn't seem to have any sense of how much he was pissing people off. Sure, he had a few people watching him as they passed by, does that mean the rest of us want him doing that for hours at a time and playing over any potential customers that want to try out gear? Whenever the quiet period ended, he was always one of the first people to crank his amp (before other people had even started) and start churning out that noise at full blast.

Grr, the guy really pissed me off haha. He was on an ego trip for 2 days without a care for anyone else.[/quote]

He's clearly just a hobbyist. He's unlikely to land any proper work anytime soon if he just plays that crappy speed-slap-Mark-King-gone-wrong stuff all the time. Maybe he can hold down some real bass, who knows, although with the greatest respect to him I think it's highly unlikely.

I don't think it's fair to chastise an individual for playing how they want, but demoing gear to the point of obnoxiousness drives me nuts.

[wateroftyne]

To be fair, his playing style sounds like his surname. I'll buy him a pint just for that.

[Doddy]

[quote name='gareth' post='1162102' date='Mar 14 2011, 06:08 PM']The main reason I gave up bass playing for some 20 years, cannot stand it.

Always lost in the mix and if it is'nt who wants to listen anyway?

Bass is all about soul and feel and about restraint and choice of the right notes for the right context

Rant over and just IMHO[/quote]

That's a pretty fickle reason to give up-because you don't like slapping. You don't have to do it.

It only gets lost in the mix if it's EQ'd badly,and it's popularity suggests that lots of people do like listening to it-just not
particularly the 'fast chops for no reason' stuff,but even that has it's place.

Bass is about restraint in certain contexts.In others,it requires business and maybe even slapping. You can still play with
soul and feel and with the right notes when you use your thumb. Contrary to popular belief,you don't have to play fast octaves
in E minor.