mikenichols Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I've just put a new article 'How to become a musician' on my website. I'm hoping some of you will find this interesting, especially if you're seriously working on your playing or you have kids learning an instrument. Please let me know your thoughts! It's at [url="http://www.mikenichols.co.uk"]http://www.mikenichols.co.uk[/url] You'll also find loads of audio and transcriptions to download there. Hope you enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Interesting article... Just out of curiosity, the 10,000 hour figure, is this a widely accepted reference point? Do you include... learning the theory behind music and harmony in the practising hours? Gigging? Rehearsing? A quick calculation has me at about 1,000 hours total playing so far and at the moment I am practising at the rate of 750 or so per year... I guess if I ever want to turn pro I need to give up the day job! Even if you did 40 hours p/w (ie a full time job) that is only 2,000 pa. 60 p/w has this over 3,000 pa. You have really got to love it to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I just get broken links when I try and view the articlew - running firefox 3.6.8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 My understanding of the 10000 hour figure (Having not yet read the article by the OP) is that that is the amount of practice time required to become a virtuoso performer, not the amount of time required to become a functioning pro quality musician. There is a very big difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' post='1165539' date='Mar 17 2011, 10:56 AM']My understanding of the 10000 hour figure (Having not yet read the article by the OP) is that that is the amount of practice time required to become a virtuoso performer, not the amount of time required to become a functioning pro quality musician. There is a very big difference![/quote]How many hours would the latter take in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' post='1165537' date='Mar 17 2011, 10:54 AM']I just get broken links when I try and view the articlew - running firefox 3.6.8[/quote] Yep, same problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 well, worked for me using firefox 4, has opened as a googledocs. Mike, have you tried just hosting it on your site instead? I'll admit I don't really know much about these things. Anyway, now to give it a read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Thurbs' post='1165583' date='Mar 17 2011, 11:29 AM']How many hours would the latter take in your opinion?[/quote] I don't think you can put a time limit on it.It's all down to the individual and how much,and what,they choose to study. Someone may spend 8 hours a day learning techniques but neglect things like reading,whereas someone else may practice reading all day long but doesn't have the technique to pull it off easily. Does that make either of them 'a functioning pro quality musician'? It's more about how and what you practice than how purely the length of time. If it was just a case of spending hours with the instrument to become great,it would be a lot easier than it is. There are players out there(some very well known) that spend a lot of time playing,who will never/have never actually become what you would call 'a great player'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKent Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1165688' date='Mar 17 2011, 01:00 PM']I don't think you can put a time limit on it.[/quote] I think the 10k rule is more of showing your dedication to music, however having done 10,000 hours.. yeah you do get substantially better (however, practicing 8 hours a day.. 7 days a week.. did help lots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Unfortunately not read the article (as couldn't get access to it, so sorry if this is covered in the article) but any number of hours/time period seems pretty meaningless/arbitrary to me. Surely what really matters is that in those 10k hours you're actually doing something worth while. I mean better to do a third of those hours practising high value things than simply messing around for 10k hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I am interested in making a living from being a musician over the next few years so I am interested in the approximate effort it is likely to take! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I really struggle with this template approach of "How To do ...." and claims like the 10,000 hours. The rest of the article i am sure is well meant - i confess i didn't read it all but there are so many possible paths to becoming a good musician that the title is wrong at worst and misleading at best. It almost suggests that there is only one way when there are many possibilities. OK, agreed that a lot of thoughtful playing and practice is required but thats not news - or is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='TomKent' post='1165861' date='Mar 17 2011, 03:14 PM']I think the 10k rule is more of showing your dedication to music, however having done 10,000 hours.. yeah you do get substantially better (however, practicing 8 hours a day.. 7 days a week.. did help lots).[/quote] No the 10K rule was determined by a bunch of people who did a lot of research into truly virtuosic performers, apparently on average they all put in apporximately 10,000 hours of practice before achieving the point in their career where they were said to be virtuosic. IIRC they were all classical performers, although I may well be wrong. Its nothing to do with showing your dedication, it is about the literal amount of time you have to spend practicing in all to go from never touched an instrument to a virtuoso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Like others, I cannot read the article as our internet blocks it but, IMO, the reality is that, in order to become a musician in the 21st Century, all you need to do is to [i]say[/i] you are (that'll get you into the MU, at least ). If you think of the people who are collected under the umbrella term of 'musician', it can include a whole load of people who can't actually [i]play[/i] anything. So the 100,000 hours is arbitrary. Is there room for quality control in terms of entering the world professional music? Can we decide who can call themselves a musician and who can't? Of course not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Actually, 10,000 hours isn't that much. Just short of 5 years doing 40 hour Mon-Fri weeks. Virtuosos? Sponging lightweights, if you ask me. Think how good they'd be if they [i]really [/i]made an effort Edited March 17, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Thurbs' post='1165945' date='Mar 17 2011, 04:17 PM']I am interested in making a living from being a musician over the next few years so I am interested in the approximate effort it is likely to take![/quote] It depends what areas you are looking at. If you are thinking of going down the band member route,it may not take much effort at all. If you want to be the kind of player who can go from busking standards to reading shows to depping in rock bands etc,then there is a lot more effort involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikenichols Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thanks for all the feedback. And apologies to those whose browsers wouldn't open the article, I've added it as a PDF download at www. mikenichols.co.uk now There were quite a few comments from people who hadn't read the article, or not all of it, so let me clarify a few points. First the 10,000 hrs was for rank and file orchestral players, not virtuosos. I explain in the article that certain types of musicians including virtuosos have to do even more hours to master their art. Also I explain why it is a myth that contemporary music is somehow easier or takes less hours to master than classical music. Of course you can be in a band with a fairly limited skill set, but I'm talking about having a career as a player, you need a wide skill set to survive for forty years in the business. And yes of course the hours have to be spent wisely, I have plenty to say about that as well. Anyway I hope you find it interesting, right I'm off to do some practice:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1165976' date='Mar 17 2011, 04:47 PM']If you think of the people who are collected under the umbrella term of 'musician', it can include a whole load of people who can't actually [i]play[/i] anything.[/quote] We call them hip hop producers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Thurbs' post='1165583' date='Mar 17 2011, 11:29 AM']How many hours would the latter take in your opinion?[/quote] 1. at the most. having played guitar for years, bass must be easy. less strings! Edited March 18, 2011 by lettsguitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faiz0802 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Wow. this seems very interesting. Will give it a good read and let you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I think its a good article and makes a great deal of sense. I would of thought that unless you were relying on luck to make a career for you 10,000 hours is a minimum and thats why most contemporary music courses offer 3 or 4 years. The difficulty is balancing this out with time to socialize as iv found who your friends with often decides the quality of the gigs your offered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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