New to Home Recording - Please Review my Rig Choice

[JayPH]

Hi Guys
I've decided to make my own home studio and i would really appreciate you casting an eye over the kit I've chose and let me know if I have everything I need to get going.

First, heres a bit of background so you can tell if I'm barking up the right tree or if I will need different stuff ( Or a different hobby or straight Jacket haha )

I've been making music for over 20 years and been in a few bands but I've never done any recording at all but I'm very serious about making music and I've got a bit of redundancy money and I really want to go for it. I probably have about 2 - 3 albums worth of songs that I could jump straight into recording.

My style is hard to say but it's probably a bit poor mans Neil Young/ Elliott Smith / beatles type music. Like a heavier acousticy, rock sound. I also really like the idea of making trance and classical sounding stuff by using the software more. I'm not a particularly good singer but I can hit some notes and I'm not precious about swapping the vocals out if I can get better vocalists to work with.

I imagine that it will be a case of recording the acoustic, bass and vocals and lead all seprately and then using a midi controller to add other instruments with software. I'll be playing with other musicians sometimes too so I've gone for a relatively mobile rig. I might be recording bands in the future too.

One of my mates is a good drummer and he has an electric and acoustic setup so I might record to a makeshift drumbeat/click and then have him replace the drum track(s) with somthing decent. I know it's best to get the drums down first but I probably wont be able to work that way.

I don't want to spend a penny if the midi controller won't give me realistic sounding instruments.

Also how hard is it? i mean, is it hard to make high quality production music with the kit I've specced out? Is it hard using the software and gluing it all together?

I realise you only get out what you put in but I would be pretty miffed if I spend all this cash ( a lot for me ) and the end result is like one of those cheesey .mid files you get on crap phones. Can you get decent sounding keyboards, wind instruments etc in vst's, samples etc for cheap/free?

Really sorry for the book guys but I'm itching to get this stuff together and exorcise the musical deamons.
Heres the rig followed by links:

Audio Interface: Presonus FireStudio Mobile
mics 2 x Rode M3
Monitors M-Audio Studiophile BX5A OR KRK Rokit Powered 5 G2 - Pair
Midi Controller Akai MPK25 or 49 key version
Sequencer Reaper

[b]Interface[/b]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/42353-presonus-firestudio-mobile.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/4235...tml#sterling_uk[/url]

[b]Mics[/b]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/29187-rode-m3.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/2918...tml#sterling_uk[/url]

[b]Monitors[/b]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/37857-m-audio-studiophile-bx5a-deluxe-active-studio-monitors-pair.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/3785...tml#sterling_uk[/url]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/37568-krk-rokit-powered-5-g2-pair.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/3756...tml#sterling_uk[/url]

[b]Midi Controller[/b]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/53609-akai-mpk25-portable-keyboard-controller-free-hip-hop-sample-pack.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/5360...tml#sterling_uk[/url]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/28890-akai-mpk49.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/2889...tml#sterling_uk[/url]

Thanks in advance guys

John

PS I have an SR-500 Ibanez Bass with active pickups so I'll be going direct into the Interface.

PPS - The room i'm using is a converted Garage so it's your typical rectangle garage sized shape haha. It also has a large sofa in it, computer desk and the usual other stuff. Will this be adequate?

[lettsguitars]

you'll be laughing in no time. i would consider a couple of different mics. a dynamic sm58 type for vox and sm 57 style for guitars. acoustics sound nice if you use a dynamic angled at the sound hole and a condenser on the fingerboard. plus, i'd strongly recommend the waves and nomad factory plugins. also you mention singing, well autotune is a fantastic bit of stuff. don't be put off by the cher effect where it is used as an effect rather than pitch fixing. it can really make the difference between an average vocal and a brilliant one. having said that, auto tune has been blown out of the water by melodyne which is nothing short of a retuning revolution.

[lowdown]

[quote name='JayPH' post='1165278' date='Mar 17 2011, 01:33 AM']I don't want to spend a penny if the midi controller won't give me realistic sounding instruments.

[b]Midi Controller[/b]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/53609-akai-mpk25-portable-keyboard-controller-free-hip-hop-sample-pack.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/5360...tml#sterling_uk[/url]
[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/28890-akai-mpk49.html#sterling_uk"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/2889...tml#sterling_uk[/url]

T[/quote]

A midi controller will not give you [realistic] sounds.
It will just transmit the midi data.
Some keyboards [and the ones you are quoting] might come with sounds, but they will not be great sounds, just General Midi sounds.
And they will have to be recorded via the Audio out.

Garry

Edited March 17, 2011 by lowdown

[Skol303]

[quote name='lowdown' post='1165417' date='Mar 17 2011, 09:30 AM']A midi controller will not give you [realistic] sounds.
It will just transmit the midi data.[/quote]

^ Yup. An important distinction that...there's a big difference between MIDI controllers and MIDI keyboards. They both look the same (i.e. they both have piano keys), but controllers are just that - tools for controlling and playing sounds that are stored in other devices (be they hardware or software); whereas MIDI keyboards or synths are instruments in their own right - which can also be used as controllers.... if that makes any sense?! Your best bet, money-wise, is to buy a decent MIDI controller to control a software synth (i.e. a synth built into a DAW, or as a VST), rather than invest in a MIDI synth (hardware) straight away.

In terms of your proposed set up it looks fine to me!

I can't comment on the mics - but only because I don't use them at all myself; the only audio I ever record is electric bass.

The Presonus is a nice interface which should stand you in good stead.

If it's within budget, I'd opt for the larger (i.e. 49 key) midi controller. It won't be as portable, but it'll improve your 'workflow' in the long-run. Not a big issue though.

Reaper (as mentioned before) is a brilliant DAW for the money. Try it out for free before you buy. I'd also recommend downloading a demo of Record:

[url="http://www.propellerheads.se/products/record/"]http://www.propellerheads.se/products/record/[/url]

^ I personally find this to be the 'daddy' of all audio-based DAWs, at least for the price range. It'd be perfect for what you need, as it's specifically designed for working with audio, and I'd argue is a better buy than Reaper in that regard. Personally I love it; but then people always have their own favourites and will ultimately recommend what they use themselves! ;-) Worth trying it out anyway.

In short: looks like you have a nice set up in the making!

[Algae]

Yeah Presonus stuff is really good. I have a Firebox for home recording and have used a Firepod to record bands - the quality is excellent. Good choice.

Using your bass direct into it will work fine. I have done this with an SR-800 and had good results. A bit of waveform editing afterwards always helps in the final mix. I would recommend the software Sound Forge for that. With the bass track just normalise it to even out the overall level (similar to using compression). You can also use Sound Forge to add reverb , eq etc to other tracks. Vocals especially benefit from a good chunk of reverb.

Mic wise SM57 are good to stick in front of a cab but if you are using acoustic guitar I would recommend a PZM (pressure zone mic) which is a lot cheaper and the sound is great with a bit of eq and reverb added afterwards. SM58 is good for vocal - use a spit guard though (you can easily make one from a wire coathanger and a dishcloth).

[lowdown]

[quote name='lettsguitars' post='1165282' date='Mar 17 2011, 01:52 AM']i'd strongly recommend the [b]waves[/b] and nomad factory plugins. also you mention singing, well autotune is a fantastic bit of stuff. d[/quote]


Unless you want to use Torrents etc, the Waves plugs are very expensive, as are Nomad & Autotune/Melodyne.
[url="http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90"]http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90[/url]

The OP is better of investing in Soft synths/Modules. He made a point of wanting good composing sounds.
If he is using Reaper, that has plenty of good usable FX, but does lack in The Synth/Sounds department.
He would need to use 3rd party vendors for [good - realistic - Orchestral] sounds.
Dance/sound scape sounds are easily achieved with the plenty of good free ones out there.
There are also some good free drum samplers about.
If you are on a tight budget just check the 'Free VST's' in the Recording sticky on this site, people have posted up some useful stuff.
[url="http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90"]http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90[/url]

Just a thought really.






Garry

Edited March 17, 2011 by lowdown

[Tuco]

[quote name='lowdown' post='1165572' date='Mar 17 2011, 11:18 AM']Unless you want to use Torrents etc, the Waves plugs are very expensive, as are Nomad & Autotune/Melodyne.
[url="http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90"]http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90[/url]

The OP is better of investing in Soft synths/Modules. He made a point of wanting good composing sounds.
If he is using Reaper, that has plenty of good usable FX, but does lack in The Synth/Sounds department.
He would need to use 3rd party vendors for [good - realistic - Orchestral] sounds.
Dance/sound scape sounds are easily achieved with the plenty of good free ones out there.
There are also some good free drum samplers about.
If you are on a tight budget just check the 'Free VST's' in the Recording sticky on this site, people have posted up some useful stuff.
[url="http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90"]http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=90[/url]

Just a thought really.






Garry[/quote]
im a big fan of certain freewares

[url="http://www.kvraudio.com/"]http://www.kvraudio.com/[/url]

^^check this site,everything you`ll ever need to know


but yeah the presonus is an excellent choice..


for mic`s you can do a LOT worse than checking out some of studiospares "own" models:

[url="http://www.studiospares.com/mics-instrument/studiospares-s900-mincondenser-mic/invt/448630/?htxt=WgbwFTnlUE34poNijTAwyaC19akQNzmTDzXevFeNZJc4hvF48jKSxDq6pUyIQh84%2BoDmoJpWoQlr%0A6NIeeYVnZQ%3D%3D"]http://www.studiospares.com/mics-instrumen...NIeeYVnZQ%3D%3D[/url]

i use S900`s in place of 57`s & a S1100 for vocals/acoustic guitar: truly EXCELLENT mics!!!!!!!

just my $0.02

[JayPH]

Thanks very much for the help and advice guys. Keep the tips coming

That'll do me. Nobody has put the Kybosh on it so I'm gonna take this as a green light.

I just wanted to make sure I was in the right ball park. I've been reading for a few weeks now and you end up getting a bit bogged down.

I'm happy to go with the Presonus then and I think I will go with the Akai 49. I don't want to be having to upgrade too quickly.
Some shouts for different Mics so i'll read up a bit more on them. Reaper gets the vote but I'll check Record out too.

I didn't explain myself very well about the midi controller. I know it doesn't have it's own sound and that you use it to control software sounds on your computer. I was just concerned as a couple of you have pointed out that the sounds that will come with the free software will be unrealistic.

The autotune software sounds good but this is where I'm getting lost. The scary Waves Price tag is what I was afraid of and I'm totally lost when it comes to all this side of it. Is the Waves stuff SoftwaRE Synths?

Am I right in thinking that you can get decent sounds with VST's but if you want the real deal you need the Waves stuff? I've been concentrating that much on the hardware that i've pretty much neglected the software side of it. I'm gonna go and start reading on that kvraudio site to try and get my head around it.

I'm six of one and half a dozen of the other on the torrent thing. I do like to support software developers but I can't afford pro costs.

Thanks again for all the advice and links. I really appreciate your help

John