Bloc Riff Nut Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I've recently been looking around far a 4x10 4 0hm cab and noticed that some of them have a frequency response of 40 or 50 Hz to around 18 or 20 KHz. The B on my 5 string bass is about 30 Hz. If the cab is 40 Hz and my bass 30 Hz, it seems to me that the cab isn't reproducing all that the bass gives out. I'm sure the tech boffins have done their homework. I just don't understand it !!!! This happens more than I'd like to admit Any boffins around ? Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 You don't have to reproduce the fundamentals to get a decent bass output. The other thing to remember is that it's odds on that the figures that are quoted for bass cabs are mostly BS anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 My amp cuts off signals below 38Hz anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 My cab has a frequency range starting from 35 Hz, however I'm tuned down to A which is at 27.5 Hz. I have no problem with loudness of clarity. Apparently it's something to do with harmonics being produced as opposed to fundamentals. I'm no scientist though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Some of these articles may help: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm[/url] The one about strings and harmonics is probably the key one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The ones that say 18-20 are definitely BSing, either through direct lies or the at -30db point style. Your 5 string probably doesn't have a pickup at the 12th fret position to make that 30hz fundamental very present. Your ear does not much for you below 50hz, nothing below maybe 100hz has much by way of 'tone' or character, it is more of a there or isn't kind of thing. [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm"]Link for techy stuff.[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1176541' date='Mar 25 2011, 08:54 PM']The ones that say 18-20 are definitely BSing, either through direct lies or the at -30db point style. Your 5 string probably doesn't have a pickup at the 12th fret position to make that 30hz fundamental very present. Your ear does not much for you below 50hz, nothing below maybe 100hz has much by way of 'tone' or character, it is more of a there or isn't kind of thing. [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm"]Link for techy stuff.[/url][/quote] Yep hence the 38Hz shelf, just cuts the wool out. Nothing missing that humans will hear, better to use the power somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1176538' date='Mar 25 2011, 08:52 PM']Some of these articles may help: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm[/url] The one about strings and harmonics is probably the key one![/quote] i just read that article, i must've missed that issue of bgm. a great way of visualising the 'maths/music' as a concept or relationship. i love it when science boffs like Alex both educate and consolidate your own experience/knowledge at the same time. i would love to see a cool visual (artistic) interpretation of the harmonic spectrum, be it western or otherwise.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1176590' date='Mar 25 2011, 05:31 PM']i just read that article, i must've missed that issue of bgm. a great way of visualising the 'maths/music' as a concept or relationship. i love it when science boffs like Alex both educate and consolidate your own experience/knowledge at the same time. i would love to see a cool visual (artistic) interpretation of the harmonic spectrum, be it western or otherwise..[/quote] [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/bass-frequency-waterfall-plots-what-they-mean-rigs-510749/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/bass-fre...an-rigs-510749/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloc Riff Nut Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1176538' date='Mar 25 2011, 09:52 PM']Some of these articles may help: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm[/url] The one about strings and harmonics is probably the key one![/quote] Nice link AlexC, That clears things up nicely, now i'm not too worried about choosing a cab with a frequency response above40Hz. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the BassChatters, you guys are great. Before coming on here around a year ago I knew nearly nothing regarding the technical side of music, I could play but that was about it. Thanks to Basschat I'm becoming the band member that gets asked his opinion on cab placement and how to clean-up the sound during sound checks etc. And basically they're just asking you guys 'cause that's where the info comes from. CHEERS, Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1176628' date='Mar 25 2011, 10:08 PM'] [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/bass-frequency-waterfall-plots-what-they-mean-rigs-510749/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/bass-fre...an-rigs-510749/[/url][/quote] That is a great link, thanks Bill - have been meaning to do a similar analysis for a J bass for ages, now I don't have to as it's all in there There's some great stuff on talkbass but I find navigating the threads overwhelming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Also, incidentally that graph is very revealing about axial rotation on the string movement. I assume that the rise-dip-rise response on the 1st harmonic (or 2nd, depending on preferred nomenclature!) is because the plane of string vibration shifts from horizontal to vertical back to horizontal in relation to the pickup poles. Makes me realise that there's another potential source of audible 'beats' to a note, on top of any pitch-based phase interference (as in when tuning by harmonics). It also makes me think that a volume drop in low frequency harmonics in my slap playing v fingerstyle is probably because I'm hitting the string too vertically, and I should aim for a different angle of string attack to better excite the pickup. Who'd have thought that a frequency response graph could teach you something about playing technique? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchman Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1176554' date='Mar 25 2011, 10:04 PM']Yep hence the 38Hz shelf, just cuts the wool out. Nothing missing that humans will hear, better to use the power somewhere else.[/quote] What he said. Death to the wool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 [quote name='LawrenceH' post='1177372' date='Mar 26 2011, 05:12 PM']Also, incidentally that graph is very revealing about axial rotation on the string movement. I assume that the rise-dip-rise response on the 1st harmonic (or 2nd, depending on preferred nomenclature!) is because the plane of string vibration shifts from horizontal to vertical back to horizontal in relation to the pickup poles. Makes me realise that there's another potential source of audible 'beats' to a note, on top of any pitch-based phase interference (as in when tuning by harmonics). It also makes me think that a volume drop in low frequency harmonics in my slap playing v fingerstyle is probably because I'm hitting the string too vertically, and I should aim for a different angle of string attack to better excite the pickup. Who'd have thought that a frequency response graph could teach you something about playing technique? [/quote] It's an interesting graph the even harmonics are showing a very different decay to the odd numbered harmonics, I wonder why. I'll bet there's some sort of series in the maths. Back when i taught science we used to stretch a long steel wire over a bench and watch the vibration with a strobe light. You could clearly see the nodes moving as the vibration decayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Phil Starr' post='1179825' date='Mar 28 2011, 06:15 PM']It's an interesting graph the even harmonics are showing a very different decay to the odd numbered harmonics, I wonder why. I'll bet there's some sort of series in the maths.[/quote] good observation. looks like two different attacks repeated alternately. could this be the differing pick-up phasing/mixing ? edit : after re-reading the article, i'm definetely interpreting that it is the pick-up phasing causing this, but i might be wrong. Edited March 28, 2011 by phil.i.stein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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