mcnach Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 How many times does this happen? Is there some authority/regulation consumers can use to fight this? Having read the recent Bass Centre thread (interestingly I personally had 3 out of 3 such cases with them: they're of course in my "never again" list... I cancelled the last one at took me over a month to be refunded!), and having had a similar situation with other online companies... It strikes me as an extremely "naughty" thing to do. My last instance was just last week, but it's a company I have dealt succesfully with many other times, cancellation was relatively simple (although it did require 3 emails with the last one being a little more "serious" as I decided to just deal with my credit card and let them do the work for me) so i will not name them. I've had other cases where they don't even tell you something is not in stock until a week or two later (that was the case with the Bass Centre), despite taking the money on the first day. Cases where they just ignore all your emails after they have your money. Cases where when you eventually talk to a human, you're just given apologies and promises that are broken immediately. Cases where you wait and wait for a refund (up to two months for me, once, with Dabs.com and I got Trading Standards involved). I have heard that they cannot take the money if the item is not in stock... but that's hearsay. What can consumers do to find their rights, and who enforces them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I think most dealers have to do it to avoid getting stuck with out of date gear they have to sell at a loss. If I'm buying new I nearly always do it through ebay these days as the feedback and refund mechanisms are very powerful, and because of this you tend to get very good service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I suspect this happens quite often, and not just with bass gear. We had problems a couple of years ago with Argos relating to some furniture that was shown 'in stock'. To me 'in stock' means that they have it in their warehouse and are in a position to ship it to me. To Argos however, 'in stock' means that they are able to place an order on the manufacturer for the item - who in this case was in Malaysia. It took months to resolve. I would also be interested in who could help the consumer in this situation also. Would Trading Standards be interested maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Specialist niche retailers will slowly but surely get their 'comeupance' as the word spreads amongst specialist customers that their concept of customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I'm an ex customer of The Bass Centre as well and will always recommend going to absolutely anywhere other than them if someone asks me. Using a credit card provides a degree of protection as the credit card company can claw back money for cancelled/undelivered transactions over a certain £ limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1177152' date='Mar 26 2011, 12:47 PM']I think most dealers have to do it to avoid getting stuck with out of date gear they have to sell at a loss. If I'm buying new I nearly always do it through ebay these days as the feedback and refund mechanisms are very powerful, and because of this you tend to get very good service[/quote] I can understand a certain level of "out of stock but I will orde for you right now". But I want to be informed so that i can choose whether to wait or go somewhere else, and the money should not leave my account until they can actually send it to me. How many times you find the cheapest deals are "not in stock"? It seems just a ploy to attract you to their site. Cynical? Me? nah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='mcnach' post='1177283' date='Mar 26 2011, 02:39 PM']But I want to be informed so that i can choose whether to wait or [u]go somewhere else[/u][/quote] Which is exactly why they won't inform you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='icastle' post='1177176' date='Mar 26 2011, 01:11 PM']Specialist niche retailers will slowly but surely get their 'comeupance' as the word spreads amongst specialist customers that their concept of customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I'm an ex customer of The Bass Centre as well and will always recommend going to absolutely anywhere other than them if someone asks me. Using a credit card provides a degree of protection as the credit card company can claw back money for cancelled/undelivered transactions over a certain £ limit.[/quote] heh, another BassCentre customer lost... Yes, using a credit card is very useful... but I tend to try to sort things out with the store first. If they agree and promise to process the refund, I say ok. And wait. Then call again if nothing happens. Skilled liars like Bass centre can manage to do that a few times before it dawns on you that you're being taken for a ride, and then you can go to the credt card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1177288' date='Mar 26 2011, 02:42 PM']Which is exactly why they won't inform you [/quote] oh, of course I see that... hence my original post about regulations etc. Because they're pretty much deceiving me to get my custom. I am not allowed to sell a car by making a pretty website with pictures of cars... and when someone gives me some money for one, then I go out and actually create a company and become registered, and look for suppliers and... right? What they're doing is a less exaggerated form of what I just said. It is not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mcnach' post='1177291' date='Mar 26 2011, 02:43 PM']heh, another BassCentre customer lost... Yes, using a credit card is very useful... but I tend to try to sort things out with the store first. If they agree and promise to process the refund, I say ok. And wait. Then call again if nothing happens. Skilled liars like Bass centre can manage to do that a few times before it dawns on you that you're being taken for a ride, and then you can go to the credt card.[/quote] I had to email them three times to get any response from them whatsoever, they kept me hanging around for months for the item ordered and I even went back to the UK importer who confirmed that there were no stock issues at their end. When I told the arrogant little so and so at BC that the items were available from the UK importer, he had the cheek to tell me that 1) I had no idea who the UK importer was and 2) I had no right to go 'behind their backs' to their supplier to check on stock status. I suppose the one positive point is that it illustrates exactly how NOT to treat customers. Edited March 26, 2011 by icastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='icastle' post='1177309' date='Mar 26 2011, 03:02 PM']I had to email them three times to get any response from them whatsoever, they kept me hanging around for months for the item ordered and I even went back to the UK importer who confirmed that there were no stock issues at their end. When I told the arrogant little so and so at BC that the items were available from the UK importer, he had the cheek to tell me that 1) I had no idea who the UK importer was and 2) I had no right to go 'behind their backs' to their supplier to check on stock status. I suppose the one positive point is that it illustrates exactly how NOT to treat customers. [/quote] If I ever open a store, I think I will use the Bass Centre as an example of how NOT to do things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='mcnach' post='1177335' date='Mar 26 2011, 03:35 PM']If I ever open a store, I think I will use the Bass Centre as an example of how NOT to do things [/quote] I remember seeing John Cleese in some sales training films many years ago showing how not to sell. BC weren't quite to the same standard, but they came pretty damn close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 GAK have been awful in the past with claiming to have things in stock when in fact they don't and will then delay posting an item to you whilst they order it in. I don't know the ins and outs of it but it must be in breach of advertising standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1177406' date='Mar 26 2011, 04:50 PM']GAK have been awful in the past with claiming to have things in stock when in fact they don't and will then delay posting an item to you whilst they order it in. I don't know the ins and outs of it but it must be in breach of advertising standards.[/quote] Funny, that was my very first experience with them, when I bought an AKAI DPS12i, a 12-track multi track recorder, back in 2000 or 2001. When it finally arrived it didn't have the 20Gb hard drive they told me it would have (and that was what made me choose them ovr other shops) but an 8Gb one... At the time I let it go because I was just fed up with the wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Where possible I ring the shop and ask some obscure question that involves them having a look at the product, if they can't give me an answer then I start to suspect it's not in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerley Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 For the retail to have a stock indicator and it be false is not good as it is definitely misleading the consumer. However if they had no such indicator it would not really be any better but not deliberately misleading at least. For those that can get away with it is the perfect business model with no money tied up in stock, no need to run any discounts to clear out old stock etc,. If the approach was made clear to the consumer and by running like this the prices were lower (which they should be) then that would be okay. Still can't see it working out too well as it would bit a bit of a lottery on whether the item could actually be acquired by the retailer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 God I hate this. There's no excuse. Most of the big online music stores in the UK have burned me this way - and I never deal with them again after they've done it. If something says 'in stock' and lets you pay for it then and there promising x days delivery, then I expect it at my door x days later. Not x days after they've eventually managed to source the item from a distributor. Bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 [quote name='Fat Rich' post='1177471' date='Mar 26 2011, 06:15 PM']Where possible I ring the shop and ask some obscure question that involves them having a look at the product, if they can't give me an answer then I start to suspect it's not in stock.[/quote] Why not just ask if it's in stock? Most shops, including my workplace, have neither the money nor the space to keep every available item in stock all the time. If it's not straight to hand and you need it, say, for a gig tomorrow then most shops I know will actually suggest the next place to try! On the payment side of things, I always assumed that, like us, most mail order places actually take your money when things are leaving the shop/warehouse.. seems not, then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 [quote name='hubrad' post='1178197' date='Mar 27 2011, 12:54 PM']Why not just ask if it's in stock? Most shops, including my workplace, have neither the money nor the space to keep every available item in stock all the time. If it's not straight to hand and you need it, say, for a gig tomorrow then most shops I know will actually suggest the next place to try! On the payment side of things, I always assumed that, like us, most mail order places actually take your money when things are leaving the shop/warehouse.. seems not, then![/quote] Re: stock. If the website has a stock indicator, it should be correct. Many use it and are correct. Sometimes it doesn't work perfectly. But some shops seem to make a habit of it. This latter ones are the ones I would like to fight. If the website has no stock indicator, I would expect an email letting me know within a day or two. A place like (spit) Bass Centre had me waiting patiently for nearly two weeks, until I asked and then they told me it was not in stock but they'd have it a week later (lies, and more lies after that). Re: money absolutely, there are shops that take the money only when they have the item and are ready to send it to you. I am glad you operate that way. Maybe most do that. BUt there seems to still be a significant number of retailers who take the money immediately whether they have it in stock or not. Sometimes, they take it, don't tell you it's not in stock, they wait till you call asking about your order, keep you hanging around for weeks, and when you finally cancel, they keep you over a month waiting to give you your money back. No, there aren't many shops as bad as that. There wouldn't be anybody left willing to soend money online it it were always that difficult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I tend to email or phone up, just to confirm that the item is actually in stock. I tend to only deal with a certain few places though. Bassdirect are very good, DV247 is also very good, as are Stringsdirect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 [quote name='Soliloquy' post='1178563' date='Mar 27 2011, 06:38 PM']I tend to email or phone up, just to confirm that the item is actually in stock. I tend to only deal with a certain few places though. Bassdirect are very good, DV247 is also very good, as are Stringsdirect.[/quote] I agree about those three. Nothing but good experiences. Recently I had the out-of-stock thing with DV247, but they told me pretty much immediately in an email. That's fine with me. And it's only happened once out of countless times I've ordered from them. We should start a thread about "goodies & baddies" to order from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Happened on DV247 with me too. Said I'd be waiting up to 2 weeks for the order to be shipped. I was fine with that I wasn't in a hurry. 6 weeks later I received an email being told they'd update me once a month telling me whether or not they'd be able to ship anything that month. Cancelled the whole order. That's £600 spent elsewhere that they won't be seeing! Edit: It was my first order with them too! That's the thing with first impressions, you only get one. Edited March 27, 2011 by chrismuzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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