Your opinions on nuts, fretwire size, radius

[martindupras]

I could do with your collective wisdom and experience.

After much pondering , I've decide to take the plunge and get a custom bass built to my specification.

I'm pretty much decided on most things, but there are a few things I need to decide, on which I don't really have much of an opinion. It'll be a 35" J-type, bolt on.

1) nut material: I've been recommended brass. I'm not keen on the look of brass, but in order of importance I care about (1) sound, (2) playability, (3) looks. Opinions on a brass nut?

2) fretwire: I've never really thought about fretwire size on basses. (On guitars, I have.) I care a lot about a low action and good intonation so my intuition says go for as low and wide as you can. Once again, opinions? (If that makes any difference I use stainless steel .045-.135 strings, they do wear the frets out a bit.)

3) Tuners: this'll be a 3+2 headstock. Can anyone think of a good reason why I shouldn't choose HipShot Ultralites? I like the look of them, the reviews are good, and they are light and small. What am I trading off?

Thanks in advance!

- martin

[icastle]

[quote name='martindupras' post='1180292' date='Mar 29 2011, 12:02 AM']1) nut material: I've been recommended brass. I'm not keen on the look of brass, but in order of importance I care about (1) sound, (2) playability, (3) looks. Opinions on a brass nut?

2) fretwire: I've never really thought about fretwire size on basses. (On guitars, I have.) I care a lot about a low action and good intonation so my intuition says go for as low and wide as you can. Once again, opinions? (If that makes any difference I use stainless steel .045-.135 strings, they do wear the frets out a bit.)

3) Tuners: this'll be a 3+2 headstock. Can anyone think of a good reason why I shouldn't choose HipShot Ultralites? I like the look of them, the reviews are good, and they are light and small. What am I trading off?[/quote]

Brass nuts were popular back in the 80's but the fascination seems to have died off a little over the years.
They give a slightly brighter tone and supposedly more sustain.
If you decide you want a brass nut but don't like it's bright appearance then ask for it to be unlacquered, it'll soon dull down.

The choice of fretwire is always a bit of a trade off; wider frets will last longer but narrow frets have 'better' intonation.
As long as the frets are stoned down and capped to a sensible height then a low action can be obtained regardless of width.

If you're considering the ultralites then mention it to the luthier sooner rather than later or else you'll end up with an unbalanced bass.

Edited March 28, 2011 by icastle

[martindupras]

Thanks, really useful reply. That's what I thought about the brass nuts, but that's what the luthier recommended, so I thought there must be a good reason.

[quote name='icastle' post='1180304' date='Mar 29 2011, 12:22 AM']If you're considering the ultralites then mention it to the luthier sooner rather than later or else you'll end up with an unbalanced bass.[/quote]

When you say unbalanced, do you mean the headstock will be too light? I can understand why a heavy headstock isn't particular desirable (gravity and all that), but I don't quite get why it should be unbalanced with light tuners?

And would you recommend that the body is made lighter to compensate? I'm all for a lighter bass, as long as it's not a substantial compromise on tone.

- martin

[icastle]

[quote name='martindupras' post='1180307' date='Mar 29 2011, 12:27 AM']When you say unbalanced, do you mean the headstock will be too light? I can understand why a heavy headstock isn't particular desirable (gravity and all that), but I don't quite get why it should be unbalanced with light tuners?[/quote]

Yes.
The 'ideal' balance for a bass is that it stays put without the head dropping down because the headstock is too heavy.
Conversely, if the headstock is too light then it's going to have a tendency to lift up - don't forget that the ultralite tuners are a lot lighter than the standard ones that the design of the instrument was designed to be balanced with.

I'm no luthier (hell, I can't even put up shelves without using blutak!) but I'm sure your luthier will have a trick or three up his sleeve to provide compensation for the lighter headstock weight.
Point I was making is that it's best to mention that to him before he starts building your bass so he can put in whatever adjustments he decides are needed as he goes instead of trying to put workarounds in later.

[martindupras]

Understood, and point very well taken. Thanks for that.

- martin


[quote name='icastle' post='1180317' date='Mar 29 2011, 12:41 AM']Yes.
The 'ideal' balance for a bass is that it stays put without the head dropping down because the headstock is too heavy.
Conversely, if the headstock is too light then it's going to have a tendency to lift up - don't forget that the ultralite tuners are a lot lighter than the standard ones that the design of the instrument was designed to be balanced with.

I'm no luthier (hell, I can't even put up shelves without using blutak!) but I'm sure your luthier will have a trick or three up his sleeve to provide compensation for the lighter headstock weight.
Point I was making is that it's best to mention that to him before he starts building your bass so he can put in whatever adjustments he decides are needed as he goes instead of trying to put workarounds in later.[/quote]

[Mr. Foxen]

You can get very hard steel frets, to avoid the wear if you go for thin frets, most of my basses have big frets, but I've liked thin frets when I've had a chance to play them.

[martindupras]

I never really paid much attention to the frets. I just never really noticed the variation. On guitars it's quite apparent. I suppose it's also something I would notice more when comparing two instruments side by side.

I think I'll have to measure the frets on my existing basses and see what I find out. I'm going to guess that I might not notice anything because they'll all be medium.

- martin


[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1180325' date='Mar 29 2011, 12:50 AM']You can get very hard steel frets, to avoid the wear if you go for thin frets, most of my basses have big frets, but I've liked thin frets when I've had a chance to play them.[/quote]

[martindupras]

Also: fretwire size v. radius: discuss.

I'll have to think this through but my intuition tells me if you're going for flat and a low action, then it would make more sense to have small fretwire. I'm sure there's a flaw in that logic, though.

- martin

[icastle]

[quote name='martindupras' post='1180333' date='Mar 29 2011, 01:10 AM']Also: fretwire size v. radius: discuss.

I'll have to think this through but my intuition tells me if you're going for flat and a low action, then it would make more sense to have small fretwire. I'm sure there's a flaw in that logic, though.

- martin[/quote]


If you think about what the action of fretting a note does - all you're doing is pushing the string against the fret.

The height of the fret on a quality instrument should be high enough to prevent the string from 'fretting' against the fingerboard and low enough that the string doesn't go sharp because it's being stretched excessively on its journey to the fingerboard.

The width of the frets makes no difference to the action, that's something that falls into the 'setup' phase.

[BigRedX]

Who's the luthier?

For the nut why have you been recommended brass? Is it to get a more even tone between fretted and open strings? If so I'd go for a zero fret and a low-friction graphite nut instead. Otherwise stick with what you know and like. What does your favourite bass with the least amount of sticking string tuning issues have? Pick that.

Same for frets. What does the bass you find most comfortable to play have? Match that. If you're finding that your current basses have excessive fret-wear due to your string choice and playing style then by all means go for a harder material, but keep everything else the same.

Tuners. Hipshot Ultralites IMO are as good as any other good quality machine heads. Unless the whole bass is going to be very light weight and extremely finely balanced then they aren't going to make any significant impact and the balance. I have two Gus G3 basses, one with Hipshot Ultralites and the other with Gotoh 510s. I can't detect any difference in balance.

[martindupras]

The luthier is John Shuker. After much shopping around he seems like the best option for what I want.

I have not asked him why he recommended brass yet. I will. I just thought I'd ask for opinions first.

I checked my existing basses and they're all with jumbo frets. I'd really like to try some basses with different fret wire to see what that feels like. Either I've never played anything other than jumbo frets, or I've never paid attention.

Thanks for all the comments, really helpful. Keep them coming!

- martin



[quote name='BigRedX' post='1180510' date='Mar 29 2011, 10:15 AM']Who's the luthier?

For the nut why have you been recommended brass? Is it to get a more even tone between fretted and open strings? If so I'd go for a zero fret and a low-friction graphite nut instead. Otherwise stick with what you know and like. What does your favourite bass with the least amount of sticking string tuning issues have? Pick that.

Same for frets. What does the bass you find most comfortable to play have? Match that. If you're finding that your current basses have excessive fret-wear due to your string choice and playing style then by all means go for a harder material, but keep everything else the same.

Tuners. Hipshot Ultralites IMO are as good as any other good quality machine heads. Unless the whole bass is going to be very light weight and extremely finely balanced then they aren't going to make any significant impact and the balance. I have two Gus G3 basses, one with Hipshot Ultralites and the other with Gotoh 510s. I can't detect any difference in balance.[/quote]